58 réponses à ce sujet

[Hhoal]

During all my hours/weeks/months of playing DA:O, Awakenings and DA2 I've killed hundreds of slavers, mages, demons, darkspawn, warriors and rogues. Sometimes the demons and mages are the easiest. Hawke has killed her fair share of Kirkwall(ians?). And yet mages are the only ones we consider dangerous enough to have to lock up. It's been proven that demons can possess regular humans, not just mages. And Hawke herself has probably killed more people than most of the mages in the Circle, if not all of them combined. Fenris, Aveline and Carver are all capable of taking several people down with one blow. Isabella, Varric, and Sebastian are hardly delicate flowers either.

You don't have to be a mage to be dangerous. Why is there so much focus on the mages then? Is it because they are an easy target for hatred and oppression? Just as it's easy to determine black vs. white and male vs. female, is this just another group of people or minority that the status quo can hate?
Thoughts?

[RavenB]

Well, supposedly mages are meant by the writers to be a "real danger" as they keep saying so. I think that's just a bit hard to reflect when everyone seems to be constantly killing everyone in the DA world and your PC character kills off so many waves of enemies everyday it's a wonder there's anyone left in Kirkwall by the end of the game.

[Maria Caliban]

Hhoal wrote...
It's been proven that demons can possess regular humans, not just mages.

In DA II, it's been shown that demons can possess Templars* but only with help from mages. That's just another reason to fear mages, isn't it?

*I'm not sure a Templar is a regular human.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If the theory that giant spiders are actually possessed by demons / spirits is true, then it is possible for them to possess regular humans, I assume.

But that same codex says that this theory is contested and some scholars argue that it's the "radiation" of thin veils that transforms those creatures.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Hhoal wrote...
It's been proven that demons can possess regular humans, not just mages.

In DA II, it's been shown that demons can possess Templars* but only with help from mages. That's just another reason to fear mages, isn't it?

*I'm not sure a Templar is a regular human.

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If the theory that giant spiders are actually possessed by demons / spirits is true, then it is possible for them to possess regular humans, I assume.

But that same codex says that this theory is contested and some scholars argue that it's the "radiation" of thin veils that transforms those creatures.

Well, Sylvans is proof that they can possess trees.

[LobselVith8]

Not all societies are the same. Although the Andrastian societies fear mages, we know that the mages are treated differently among the Chasind tribes, the Dalish clans, and in the kingdom of Rivain.

Andrastian societies fear mages because their religion blames them for turning the Golden City black and creating the darkspawn, but there's nothing to prove this is remotely true. Emperor Drakon I spearheaded the current treatment of mages when he formed the Orlesian Empire, the Chantry of Andraste, the Order of Templars, and the Circle of Magi nearly a thousand years ago. Mages were imprisoned in the Circles of Magi during the reign of Divine Ambrosia II when they held a nonviolent protest over their lack of rights.

Mages have power and are dangerous, but whether they should be properly taught to use their abilities or imprisoned under a dictatorship that rules their lives is the dispute in Dragon Age. The dispute over the mages and the templars isn't likely to be one that will be rectified easily, if at all. No one on the forum can come to a consensus over the Chantry controlled Circles and the treatment of the mages by the templars.

[RavenB]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Hhoal wrote...
It's been proven that demons can possess regular humans, not just mages.

In DA II, it's been shown that demons can possess Templars* but only with help from mages. That's just another reason to fear mages, isn't it?

*I'm not sure a Templar is a regular human.

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

You fight them separately, so I would assume Harimann was just dealing with the demon without fully becoming an abomination? Like Merrill does, basically, I'd say.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If the theory that giant spiders are actually possessed by demons / spirits is true, then it is possible for them to possess regular humans, I assume.

But that same codex says that this theory is contested and some scholars argue that it's the "radiation" of thin veils that transforms those creatures.

Well, Sylvans is proof that they can possess trees.

Yea true. And I wonder why. Trees don't feel rage, pride, desire or laziness.

Or maybe it's just sloth demons who are too lazy to search for anything else.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

From what the spirit said, Lady Harimann discovered the spirit entombed under Kirkwall. In exchange for her family, the spirit gave Lady Harimann some sort of power or aid.

The spirit enhanced and fed off the desires of the Harimann family but never attempted to possess anyone.

As I understand it, spirits possess humans (and other things) because that's the only way they know how to get into and move about the mortal world. This one appeared to have made it out of the Fade already so wouldn't need a host.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea true. And I wonder why. Trees don't feel rage, pride, desire or laziness.

Or maybe it's just sloth demons who are too lazy to search for anything else.

According to the codex they try to take humans but miss. And I don't think a tree has a very strong will to resist.

They can possess corpses no problem, you vanquish what seems like thousands during DA.

[TJPags]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Hhoal wrote...
It's been proven that demons can possess regular humans, not just mages.

In DA II, it's been shown that demons can possess Templars* but only with help from mages. That's just another reason to fear mages, isn't it?

*I'm not sure a Templar is a regular human.

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

I personally don't think she was possessed.  I think she was under the influence, as it were.

Similar to one of the Templars you encounter in DAO during the Broken Circle.  The demon, in that instance, was present in the real world, and thus (IMO) not possessing the Templar.  I don't recall if we kill the demon with Lady Harriman present (or at all, to be honest) but could the demon have been possessing all of those kids?  I don't think so.
 
Just my take here - not sure we've had a dev comment on this.

[wulfsturm]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

I think she was just enthralled with the desire demon, much like the templars were in the Circle Tower in DA:O. Although, I supose that would make her an apostate mage.

Not really surprising I supose, considering this is Kirkwall we're talking about.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

From what the spirit said, Lady Harimann discovered the spirit entombed under Kirkwall. In exchange for her family, the spirit gave Lady Harimann some sort of power or aid.

The spirit enhanced and fed off the desires of the Harimann family but never attempted to possess anyone.

As I understand it, spirits possess humans (and other things) because that's the only way they know how to get into and move about the mortal world. This one appeared to have made it out of the Fade already so wouldn't need a host.

Ah, I see...

What about Kitty? She wanted to possess the little girl... the girl could have been a mage (it ran in her family, after all), but I don't remember that ever being made clear.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea true. And I wonder why. Trees don't feel rage, pride, desire or laziness.

Or maybe it's just sloth demons who are too lazy to search for anything else.

According to the codex they try to take humans but miss. And I don't think a tree has a very strong will to resist.

They can possess corpses no problem, you vanquish what seems like thousands during DA.

Yea, I think it's likely that they can possess regular humans, they just choose not to for better targets (mages).

[LobselVith8]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

From what the spirit said, Lady Harimann discovered the spirit entombed under Kirkwall. In exchange for her family, the spirit gave Lady Harimann some sort of power or aid.

The spirit enhanced and fed off the desires of the Harimann family but never attempted to possess anyone.

As I understand it, spirits possess humans (and other things) because that's the only way they know how to get into and move about the mortal world. This one appeared to have made it out of the Fade already so wouldn't need a host.

Ah, I see...

What about Kitty? She wanted to possess the little girl... the girl could have been a mage (it ran in her family, after all), but I don't remember that ever being made clear.

The demons seem capable of possessing almost anythng, from people, corpses, animals, and even trees.

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well, Sylvans is proof that they can possess trees.

Yea true. And I wonder why. Trees don't feel rage, pride, desire or laziness.

Or maybe it's just sloth demons who are too lazy to search for anything else.

Spirits target mages because they have a strong connection to the Fade. You can think of a demon as a 12 GB file, a mage as DSL, and the average person as dial-up.

A spirit can 'possess' anything however, if they get to the mortal side. A tree, dirt, a corpse. It's important to remember that a spirit from the Fade isn't going to understand the difference between living, dead, animal, person, or object. In the Fade, those are meaningless descriptions as a rock could get up, dance, and then fly away in the form of a bird.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Ah, I see...

What about Kitty? She wanted to possess the little girl... the girl could have been a mage (it ran in her family, after all), but I don't remember that ever being made clear.

What about Kitty?

She was already on the mortal side but wasn't strong enough to survive outside of the place she was summoned. That's why she wanted the girl.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 avril 2011 - 01:14 .

[RavenB]

wulfsturm wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

What exactly happened with Lady Harimann?

Seriously, what happened? Was she possessed? Or was she just under the desire "spirit"'s sway via more... conventional... means? Is that ever addressed?

I think she was just enthralled with the desire demon, much like the templars were in the Circle Tower in DA:O. Although, I supose that would make her an apostate mage.

Not really surprising I supose, considering this is Kirkwall we're talking about.

Her daughter tells you she was an apostate when you talk to her outside. She says her mother was the first in their line with magic and she thinks it made her mother too brave to think she could deal with it herself.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Spirits target mages because they have a strong connection to the Fade. You can think of a demon as a 12 GB file, a mage as DSL, and the average person as dial-up.

A spirit can 'possess' anything however, if they get to the mortal side. A tree, dirt, a corpse. It's important to remember that a spirit from the Fade isn't going to understand the difference between living, dead, animal, person, or object. In the Fade, those are meaningless descriptions as a rock could get up, dance, and then fly away in the form of a bird there.

That makes sense, I guess. I'm not sure I really understand why a spirit can possess anyone once it's in the mortal world, but only mages when it's still in the Fade, but if I take that as true, then everything else follows.

[mesmerizedish]

[EDIT] Dammit, double-post

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 11 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[The Angry One]

Feh I think most of Hightown is owned either by apostates or magisters.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

That makes sense, I guess. I'm not sure I really understand why a spirit can possess anyone once it's in the mortal world, but only mages when it's still in the Fade, but if I take that as true, then everything else follows.

To be sure, I believe a powerful demon in the Fade could theoretically possess anyone. It's just very, very hard, which is why the demons need a mage to help them possess the Templars, who are probably more open to the Fade than normal people because of the lyrium they take.

[Raiil]

Herr Uhl wrote...



According to the codex they try to take humans but miss. And I don't think a tree has a very strong will to resist.

Oh God, now I'm having images of a sloth demon aiming himself at some wandering Dalish elf, completely missing, headbutting some random oak tree and the tree being all 'wut'.

[Maria Caliban]

Valentia X wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

According to the codex they try to take humans but miss. And I don't think a tree has a very strong will to resist.

Oh God, now I'm having images of a sloth demon aiming himself at some wandering Dalish elf, completely missing, headbutting some random oak tree and the tree being all 'wut'.

I saw something more like this.