484 réponses à ce sujet

[sphinxess]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh I have no doubt that some of them are innocent. But they should have thought about that, before they let their First Enchanter refuse the Knight-Commander's investigation into the tower, searching for Blood Magic. There is no chance that the law abidding Mages within the tower did not know about the Maleficarum arts being practised in the tower.  They should have, turned those breaking the law in, or assisted in an investigation, a long time ago. They didn't. Too bad. They could have stopped it, before it begun.

Are you deliberately ignoring that there are mage children there? They have no say in anything.

It is regretable that the actions of the adults, have such consequences for the children indeed. Not much you can do about it though. All you can hope for is that the children are indeed innocent and that the Knight-Commander recognizes this. Of course you could also be unlucky enough to find even the children corrupt and/or possessed...

Isn't it funny that because the Chantry dictates that all blood mages are evil - Templars have no way to detect if a child is possessed - Merrill for one shows in the game she can detect possession....

[ddv.rsa]

sphinxess wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oh I have no doubt that some of them are innocent. But they should have thought about that, before they let their First Enchanter refuse the Knight-Commander's investigation into the tower, searching for Blood Magic. There is no chance that the law abidding Mages within the tower did not know about the Maleficarum arts being practised in the tower.  They should have, turned those breaking the law in, or assisted in an investigation, a long time ago. They didn't. Too bad. They could have stopped it, before it begun.

Are you deliberately ignoring that there are mage children there? They have no say in anything.

It is regretable that the actions of the adults, have such consequences for the children indeed. Not much you can do about it though. All you can hope for is that the children are indeed innocent and that the Knight-Commander recognizes this. Of course you could also be unlucky enough to find even the children corrupt and/or possessed...

Isn't it funny that because the Chantry dictates that all blood mages are evil - Templars have no way to detect if a child is possessed - Merrill for one shows in the game she can detect possession....

Maybe she used blood magic. Despite being morally questionable it can do things other magic can't. Obviously, the Templars and circle mages wouldn't have access to blood magic.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Enough to be able to say "Obviously, every single rogue mage in the city is a Ferelden Apostate."? Hell no. And if we're going off of evidence of that being explicitly stated in the game, aside from Hawke, there's Evelina. Who presented herself to the Kirkwall circle, before escaping and becoming an abomination.

Enough to address that there are plenty of apostates we encounter in the storyline to see that Hawke or Bethany aren't the only illegal mages in Kirkwall. And Evelina and Huon are two examples of perfectly sane mages who were driven to insanity after being imprisoned in the Gallows.

But they weren't driven insane because of the Gallows. They were driven "insane" because of outside factors. I'm not even willing to declare either of them insane. Huon became a blood mage while in the tower, no doubt taught by the others in there, and Evelina wanted to protect some orphans she had brought along from Ferelden.

They are both perfect showcases of why mages shouldn't form attachments though.

[ddv.rsa]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

But they weren't driven insane because of the Gallows. They were driven "insane" because of outside factors. I'm not even willing to declare either of them insane. Huon became a blood mage while in the tower, no doubt taught by the others in there, and Evelina wanted to protect some orphans she had brought along from Ferelden.

They are both perfect showcases of why mages shouldn't form attachments though.

It's possible to justify a lot of what the Circle does to mages as ugly, but neccessary. But saying they shouldn't form attachments is just taking it too far.

[astreqwerty]

Captmorgan72 wrote...

unless you are playing a darkside mage. The freaking first enchanter of kirkwall is close friends with a psychotic blood mage that Orsino is helping with his experiments. I don't blame Meredith at all with her attitude about blood mages being everywhere, because they mostly were. It's too bad she had to lose her mind because of that damn idol, she was a champion against dark magic. Even if I play as a mage, I find myself supporting the templars, mostly Cullen though, after Meredith goes nuts. There is no denying that magic is extremely dangerous and that is why the circles exist to begin with. Don't fix what isn't broken. The world saw what happened when mages are left without checks and balances, when the Tevinter Mages attempted to overthrow the Maker.

but you dont know that when picking sides...plus what the others said

[EmperorSahlertz]

ddv.rsa wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

But they weren't driven insane because of the Gallows. They were driven "insane" because of outside factors. I'm not even willing to declare either of them insane. Huon became a blood mage while in the tower, no doubt taught by the others in there, and Evelina wanted to protect some orphans she had brought along from Ferelden.

They are both perfect showcases of why mages shouldn't form attachments though.

It's possible to justify a lot of what the Circle does to mages as ugly, but neccessary. But saying they shouldn't form attachments is just taking it too far.

It is allowed, but frowned upon, for the exact reason we see in thsoe two quests.
Huon had a burning desire to get back to his wife, that he blinded himself to his own corruption, and ends up killing her for her blood. So much for that love.
Evelina wanted to protect two Orphans she had brought along from Ferelden. Her maternal instinct to protect, drove her to let a demon possess her. Great job "mother".
A mage has to have an extreme amount of self-discipline already. Attachments like that, just clouds their vision, and make them easy pickings for corruption and demons. After all, what wouldn't we do for the ones we love? Sort of why jedi weren't allowed to take a wife either. (I know they were allowed later due to that "love will conquer all!" cliche)

[ddv.rsa]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is allowed, but frowned upon, for the exact reason we see in thsoe two quests.
Huon had a burning desire to get back to his wife, that he blinded himself to his own corruption, and ends up killing her for her blood. So much for that love.
Evelina wanted to protect two Orphans she had brought along from Ferelden. Her maternal instinct to protect, drove her to let a demon possess her. Great job "mother".
A mage has to have an extreme amount of self-discipline already. Attachments like that, just clouds their vision, and make them easy pickings for corruption and demons. After all, what wouldn't we do for the ones we love? Sort of why jedi weren't allowed to take a wife either. (I know they were allowed later due to that "love will conquer all!" cliche)

It's probably for the best, a lot of Jedi went rogue simply because they couldn't have relationships. But even if it can make their lives more complicated, I think it should be up to each mage to decide whether or not to have attachments. It's a big part of what makes us human.

Maybe the answer is just to give them a little more freedom. The Circle is basically a prison, so why shouldn't Huon have been allowed conjugal visits?

Perhaps then he wouldn't have snapped.

[EmperorSahlertz]

To my knowledge mages aren't denied visits from family, so I would imagine a spouse is allowed to visit aswell. And I very much doubt that the Templars would allow the mage any kind of... privacy... in such visits. After all, the Templars take away all offspring of mages, they need to know if they have to pay a visit to spouse in nine months time.
I'm not against mages having relationships, I just think it should be handled very carefully.

[Wittand25]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

To my knowledge mages aren't denied visits from family, so I would imagine a spouse is allowed to visit aswell. And I very much doubt that the Templars would allow the mage any kind of... privacy... in such visits. After all, the Templars take away all offspring of mages, they need to know if they have to pay a visit to spouse in nine months time.
I'm not against mages having relationships, I just think it should be handled very carefully.

Templars do not take away children of mages. the only children taken away and given to adoption /raised by the chantry are the children born in the circle, a child born to the wife of a mage outside the circle/ to a mage whith a husband living outside would remain with the non mage parent.
But since mages are usually  taken to the circle before they are old enough to marry and afterwards have little contact with non mages such couplings are very rare.

Modifié par Wittand25, 14 avril 2011 - 09:19 .

[ddv.rsa]

Doesn't Emile get the barmaid pregnant if you let him do his thing? He's one example.

[earl of the north]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Doesn't Emile get the barmaid pregnant if you let him do his thing? He's one example.

Its worth going back to his family's mansion just to hear his mother's reaction to the barmaid.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wittand25 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

To my knowledge mages aren't denied visits from family, so I would imagine a spouse is allowed to visit aswell. And I very much doubt that the Templars would allow the mage any kind of... privacy... in such visits. After all, the Templars take away all offspring of mages, they need to know if they have to pay a visit to spouse in nine months time.
I'm not against mages having relationships, I just think it should be handled very carefully.

Templars do not take away children of mages. the only children taken away and given to adoption /raised by the chantry are the children born in the circle, a child born to the wife of a mage outside the circle/ to a mage whith a husband living outside would remain with the non mage parent.
But since mages are usually  taken to the circle before they are old enough to marry and afterwards have little contact with non mages such couplings are very rare.

I sincerely doubt that the Templars would let any offspring of a mage be. Magic runs in the blood, so a child of a mage is more likely to be a mage itself, than the grandchild of a mage and so on. The Templars would probably just act preemptively and take the child upon birth, since the child is likely going to end up in the Circle anyway.

ddv.rsa wrote...

Doesn't Emile get the barmaid pregnant if you let him do his thing? He's one example.

It is done while he is technically an apostate, and the Templars has no knowledge of what he has done.

[TobiTobsen]

earl of the north wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Doesn't Emile get the barmaid pregnant if you let him do his thing? He's one example.

Its worth going back to his family's mansion just to hear his mother's reaction to the barmaid.

The barmaid? The ones who is constantly telling the clients that she wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole? And she is sleeping with Emile?

Andrastes flaming knickers, that girl has one weird taste in men.

[Wittand25]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

To my knowledge mages aren't denied visits from family, so I would imagine a spouse is allowed to visit aswell. And I very much doubt that the Templars would allow the mage any kind of... privacy... in such visits. After all, the Templars take away all offspring of mages, they need to know if they have to pay a visit to spouse in nine months time.
I'm not against mages having relationships, I just think it should be handled very carefully.

Templars do not take away children of mages. the only children taken away and given to adoption /raised by the chantry are the children born in the circle, a child born to the wife of a mage outside the circle/ to a mage whith a husband living outside would remain with the non mage parent.
But since mages are usually  taken to the circle before they are old enough to marry and afterwards have little contact with non mages such couplings are very rare.

I sincerely doubt that the Templars would let any offspring of a mage be. Magic runs in the blood, so a child of a mage is more likely to be a mage itself, than the grandchild of a mage and so on. The Templars would probably just act preemptively and take the child upon birth, since the child is likely going to end up in the Circle anyway.

If that was the case the Amells a family known to prodce mages would never been allowed to walk free. And Hawke as brother to a mage would have to go to the circle alongside Bethany. The circle is for mages and only mages. Children ,until proven otherwise, are raised outside of the circle. If your scenerio is true there is no reason why the templars should have taken Wynne´s son away. I don´t doubt that a child with a known mage as parent will be closely watched by the order, but taking it away from parent´s living outside of the cirle, without prove that it is a mage, is someting even a lunatic like Meredith would not dare doing because of all the trouble that would cause and the money needed to provide for all those children until they are adult.

[Ksandor]

It is very hard to support anybody in this game.

[The Baconer]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Enough to address that there are plenty of apostates we encounter in the storyline to see that Hawke or Bethany aren't the only illegal mages in Kirkwall.

And there are enough escaped mages through the underground to consider as well.

And Evelina and Huon are two examples of perfectly sane mages who were driven to insanity after being imprisoned in the Gallows.

The Templars and common people aren't going to care.

So Meredith going to order the execution of every mage in the Circle of Magi because of the actions of one apostate - men, women, and children are going to die because Anders blew up the Kirkwall Chantry.

Yes. And all the mages in the Kirkwall Circle can thank him for handing her the excuse, and authority, to do so.

[Rifneno]

The Baconer wrote...

The Templars and common people aren't going to care.

That's okay.  I don't care what they think either.   

Yes. And all the mages in the Kirkwall Circle can thank him for handing her the excuse, and authority, to do so.

What a mockery of logic. If Elthina choked on her dinner, would the chef be to blame for Meredith having authority? The CHANTRY is to blame for Meredith having the authority. They wrote the laws that say in the absence of a ruling grand cleric the knight commander has sole authority. It is on the Chantry. And she needed no excuse. She asks for the RoA before Anders even started making his magic bomb.

[Plaintiff]

TobiTobsen wrote...

earl of the north wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

Doesn't Emile get the barmaid pregnant if you let him do his thing? He's one example.

Its worth going back to his family's mansion just to hear his mother's reaction to the barmaid.

The barmaid? The ones who is constantly telling the clients that she wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole? And she is sleeping with Emile?

Andrastes flaming knickers, that girl has one weird taste in men.

Emile isn't  much to look at, it's true, but he seems sweet, in an awkward way. I imagine comapred to the louts that sexually harrass her on a regular basis, she found his behaviour endearing.

Let's not forget, he's an extremely nervous virgin. She probably thought she could get it over with fairly quickly.

[Rifneno]

Plaintiff wrote...

Emile isn't  much to look at, it's true, but he seems sweet, in an awkward way. I imagine comapred to the louts that sexually harrass her on a regular basis, she found his behaviour endearing.

Compared to the louts that sexually harass her?  5 seconds after he met my FemHawke, he offered a "tonguebath."

Let's not forget, he's an extremely nervous virgin. She probably thought she could get it over with fairly quickly.

Err?  I'm not sure I've ever met a woman that thought that was a good thing...

[ForeignPatriot]

I thought Emile was paying her for her... "services"

I mean, the way he said "Has agreed to lay with me". That or most people in Thedas have no game whatsoever and making formal proposals for sex is common practice >.<

[efrgfhnm_]

Doesnt the barmaid go to Emiles dad, a noble, afterwards claiming to be pregnant with his kid and demanding money? I could swear I heard that somewhere haha

[TobiTobsen]

efrgfhnm wrote...

Doesnt the barmaid go to Emiles dad, a noble, afterwards claiming to be pregnant with his kid and demanding money? I could swear I heard that somewhere haha

Has somebody a video of that? I would love to see the mothers reaction.

"My son got a woman from the 'anged man pregnant? Oh maker! That place is sooo filthy! And the women there..." *faints*

[The Baconer]

Rifneno wrote...
That's okay.  I don't care what they think either.  

Yep. That definitely warranted a response.

What a mockery of logic. If Elthina choked on her dinner, would the chef be to blame for Meredith having authority?

You're being intellectually dishonest if you think this analogy is comparable.

The CHANTRY is to blame for Meredith having the authority. They wrote the laws that say in the absence of a ruling grand cleric the knight commander has sole authority. It is on the Chantry.

The Chantry didn't nuke its own Cleric to hoist Meredith into that position of authority. Anders did. He handed the fate of the Kirkwall mages to her on a silver platter.

And she needed no excuse. She asks for the RoA before Anders even started making his magic bomb.

Yes, but Anders actions also served to rally the people of Kirkwall behind the Templars. In her eyes and in the eyes of the common people, he vindicated her past oppression of mages by proving her right.

[Plaintiff]

Rifneno wrote...

Compared to the louts that sexually harass her?  5 seconds after he met my FemHawke, he offered a "tonguebath."

Now that I did not know.

Err?  I'm not sure I've ever met a woman that thought that was a good thing...

If it's a pity lay, you don't want it to last. But nevertheless, I'm convinced. Disregard previous posts, Emile is a creep.

Now I'm just left wondering why he's going bald when both his parents have full heads of hair.

[efrgfhnm_]

TobiTobsen wrote...

efrgfhnm wrote...

Doesnt the barmaid go to Emiles dad, a noble, afterwards claiming to be pregnant with his kid and demanding money? I could swear I heard that somewhere haha

Has somebody a video of that? I would love to see the mothers reaction.

"My son got a woman from the 'anged man pregnant? Oh maker! That place is sooo filthy! And the women there..." *faints*

Well i only heard of it from the wiki unfortunately....