484 réponses à ce sujet

[Emperor Iaius I]

TJPags wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

I'm happy to consider nuance--but no, I do not consider templars as individuals. Why should I care what a handful of people do when the body is corrupt?

Well, then I guess that makes it fine to kill all the mages since most of the mages we see are blood mages and abominations, right?

further down in the same post

Yes, and I'm sounding just like Meredith too, eh?

Well, how about that . . . you'd almost wonder if there was a point behind it all.

[LobselVith8]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Girl on a Rock wrote...

First of all, you for real just quoted the Scrolls of Banastor at me.

Look at the bottom of her post - she's in-character.

Not female, even though my icon is.

The High Dragon threw me off.

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Emperor is female? That would be Imperatrix, wouldn't it?

I don't question Magisters from the Imperium.

Sound policy.

Are you taking on apprentices? I always wanted to see the Juggernauts and the Arcanist Hall in Minrathous.

[Emperor Iaius I]

She does that. Tricky girl. I've been trying to get her to breed with Urthemiel, but she tosses her head and scoffs, saying that the lad's a bit ugly for a god of beauty. It's sad when two dragons just don't get along. I suppose I'm the only man for her.

I am taking on apprentices, but you'll have to sacrifice Girl on a Rock to prove yourself--she's one of those goodie good mages.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 11 avril 2011 - 03:43 .

[Foolsfolly]

@ LobselVith8:

You have a responsibility to the welfare of the citizens of Kirkwall. A mage exploded a Chantry, fiery debris rained down all over the city (and it looks like it even hit Sundermount). The First Enchanter was a blood mage and a necromancer as well as harboring a known serial killer. Many of the Circle were blood mages and experience in Ferelden shows what a few Blood Mages can do to a Circle.

Except we don't have the option to try to seek them out. Now we're at war with the Circle spiraling out of control and mages, demons, and abominations destroying anything in their path in Lowtown and the Docks.

This danger to the city supersedes all else. This fighting has to come to an end and the its the bleeding mages who are running rampant as Abominations and are summoning Demons. The Templars are not innocent, there are bad Templars and Meredith is completely insane. But what do you honestly suspect will happen once the Mages win the battle for Kirkwall?

You think all those demons will go away? Or all those Abominations decide that freedom means setting up a nice low-key Coffee Shop in Hightown?

They're going to continue to run mad, killing innocents, and tearing the City apart.

Not all mages are this bad, the Circle in Ferelden were worth saving. The Circle in Kirkwall? Run by chaos and corruption; harboring serial killers and abominations. Supporting the Mages is supporting whole slaughter of a city through madness.

[Tainan7509]

My first play through side with Templars and realize killing people for a crime they didn't commit just make me feel uneasy. So i side with mage for second and found it pointless (kidnapping ur sister, your mother's death, etc). Either side is not going to end pretty and i don't regret seeing both group of people get killed.

[LobselVith8]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

She does that. Tricky girl. I've been trying to get her to breed with Urthemiel, but she tosses her head and scoffs, saying that the lad's a bit ugly for a god of beauty. It's sad when two dragons just don't get along. I suppose I'm the only man for her.

Darkspawn disease will do that to you.

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

I am taking on apprentices, but you'll have to sacrifice Girl on a Rock to prove yourself--she's one of those goodie good mages.

A blood magic sacrifice? And with all these templars around, too... 

[The Angry One]

This thread is full of maleficarum, foul and evil deeds being plotted!
I hereby invoke the Right of Annulment.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Angry One wrote...

This thread is full of maleficarum, foul and evil deeds being plotted!
I hereby invoke the Right of Annulment.

Careful, you don't want a 40 page thread about the legality of invoking the right. Or do you? 

[The Angry One]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

This thread is full of maleficarum, foul and evil deeds being plotted!
I hereby invoke the Right of Annulment.

Careful, you don't want a 40 page thread about the legality of invoking the right. Or do you? 

It's perfectly legal, I had a team of 40 lawyers Qunari check over it.

Modifié par The Angry One, 11 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

She does that. Tricky girl. I've been trying to get her to breed with Urthemiel, but she tosses her head and scoffs, saying that the lad's a bit ugly for a god of beauty. It's sad when two dragons just don't get along. I suppose I'm the only man for her.

Darkspawn disease will do that to you.

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

I am taking on apprentices, but you'll have to sacrifice Girl on a Rock to prove yourself--she's one of those goodie good mages.

A blood magic sacrifice? And with all these templars around, too... 

Darkspawn? I always thought he got it from sleeping around.

And don't mind the templars. I've cast blood magic right in front of the grand cleric, and nobody noticed! Their helmets make it really hard to see. They're also kind of dopey from all that lyrium.

[The Angry One]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Darkspawn? I always thought he got it from sleeping around.

And don't mind the templars. I've cast blood magic right in front of the grand cleric, and nobody noticed! Their helmets make it really hard to see. They're also kind of dopey from all that lyrium.

I'll have you know Lyrium makes Templars ultra alert and vigilant, and only occassionaly turns the world purple and green and yellow and red and...

[LobselVith8]

The Angry One wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

This thread is full of maleficarum, foul and evil deeds being plotted!
I hereby invoke the Right of Annulment.

Careful, you don't want a 40 page thread about the legality of invoking the right. Or do you? 

It's perfectly legal, I had a team of 40 lawyers Qunari check over it.

And none of them said no? I call their Qunari-ness into question.

[NedPepper]

The Angry One wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Just repeat after me: Do not kill people for a crime they didn't commit.

Follow that through to the very end, and you'll have no trouble siding with the mages.

-Polaris

Too bad that 99.9% of all mages not named Bethany are in fact commiting crimes in DA2.

The only power mages have to use against Templars abusing power is blood magic.  Templars are weak to it.  So naturally the mages of Kirkwall are going to study blood magic.  The problem is that is makes them targets for demons. 

It's not hard to side with the mages.  I've had issues with the treatment of mages since DA:O. They have no freedoms to speak of.   They're corralled and held in a place that was built for slaves under the Tevinter Imperium.  Not to mention the fact that the Veil seems very thin in Kirkwall after years of magic related war.  

You end up with an escalating situation where Templars are becoming head hunters and mages are consorting with demons to be free.  If Meridith were more like Gregaoir and Orsino more like Iriving, the conflict wouldn't have gotten so ugly.  But that's what makes the game interesting.  It becomes extremist vs. extremist.  And people tend to become extremists after years of conflict, torture, murder and injustice.

[LobselVith8]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Darkspawn? I always thought he got it from sleeping around.

Maybe he did... maybe he did...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

And don't mind the templars. I've cast blood magic right in front of the grand cleric, and nobody noticed! Their helmets make it really hard to see. They're also kind of dopey from all that lyrium.

That's good to know. Cookies might help if any of those Qunari come by.

[Camenae]

Wow people, don't feed the troll...You know which one I'm talking about.

[GenericPlayer2]

I think siding with the mages is very easy. You just have to look at it with the information you have up to the point where the chantry explodes. At that point you know that no one in the circle is behind the crime. You know that many in Mer's command think she is crazy, and you know that the right of annulment means that your sister will die too. You don't know that the 'O' in Quentin's letters means Orsino, you don't know that he will go insane with a harvester and attack you. You don't know that siding with Meredith means you can opt to not kill your sister, you don't know that it means you will still confront her, you don't know that you will be able to dissuade Cullen from killing the mages.

Thats why I always side with the mages. Of course the only play through without Bethany is when you yourself play as a mage, but Carver is so annoying I can't even get through half of act one without deleting it.

[Mnemnosyne]

A little late to this particular discussion, but I actually find myself agreeing with Idunna and Tarohne to some degree, perhaps even more than I do with Anders at times. Anders' end goal is great, but he has no plan, at least Tarohne seemed to have a plan, even if it was a kinda crazy plan.

They also were attacking templars exclusively (and people who barged into their private sanctum, but yeah) and trying to destabilize the templar order in general. Seems like very good and rational steps in an effort to fight against the chantry and the templars.

When I am playing a strongly anti-templar character, I actually find it unfortunate that I am forced to complete that quest - I would much rather simply chuckle after Idunna gives me her explanation, warn her that the templars are onto her, wish her luck, and let her go. It's not a plan I would choose to be involved in, too risky, but it's not as though they're going through the streets grabbing random individuals to implant demons into - they're doing it to their actual enemies.

Granted, they'd probably wind up doing worse things, and to uninvolved targets, eventually, but at the point where we actually meet them? Tarohne's kinda loopy, yes, but they actually have a plan that they're carrying out to destabilize their enemy. Imagine if you had a few templars suddenly transform into abominations in public - that would shatter the public's confidence in templars.

Modifié par Koyasha, 11 avril 2011 - 04:42 .

[Nashiktal]

nedpepper wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Just repeat after me: Do not kill people for a crime they didn't commit.

Follow that through to the very end, and you'll have no trouble siding with the mages.

-Polaris

Too bad that 99.9% of all mages not named Bethany are in fact commiting crimes in DA2.

The only power mages have to use against Templars abusing power is blood magic.  Templars are weak to it.  So naturally the mages of Kirkwall are going to study blood magic.  The problem is that is makes them targets for demons. 

It's not hard to side with the mages.  I've had issues with the treatment of mages since DA:O. They have no freedoms to speak of.   They're corralled and held in a place that was built for slaves under the Tevinter Imperium.  Not to mention the fact that the Veil seems very thin in Kirkwall after years of magic related war.  

You end up with an escalating situation where Templars are becoming head hunters and mages are consorting with demons to be free.  If Meridith were more like Gregaoir and Orsino more like Iriving, the conflict wouldn't have gotten so ugly.  But that's what makes the game interesting.  It becomes extremist vs. extremist.  And people tend to become extremists after years of conflict, torture, murder and injustice.

Er, if you watch the epic battle between the mages and the templars, you would see that they are plenty vulnerable to normal magic. You see templars being burned, frozen, knocked aside...

The argument of turning to blood magic because templars are weak to it is false. Its that blood magic itself is so temptingly powerful that mages turn to it for "Salvation." 

[IanPolaris]

Nashiktal wrote...

Er, if you watch the epic battle between the mages and the templars, you would see that they are plenty vulnerable to normal magic. You see templars being burned, frozen, knocked aside...

The argument of turning to blood magic because templars are weak to it is false. Its that blood magic itself is so temptingly powerful that mages turn to it for "Salvation." 

Actually there is an element of truth to the notion that Templars are 'weak' to bloodmagic.  If you actually play a Templar Warrior, you find that Templars really do have abilities that hinder all spellcasting,but work best against normal lyrium/mana casting.  With bloodmagic, a bloodmage laughs at any attempt to reduce/deny his or her mana....it's totally irrelavant.  In addition, bloodmagic attack spells such as Hemmorage bypass all defenses and that makes them hit Templars much harder than nomal attack spells.

Templars (esp novice/inexperienced Templars) are hardly immune from magic, but there does seem to be some truth to the notion that bloodmagic is the best weapon a mage has against a Templar.

-Polaris

[The Angry One]

Gameplay wise you do realise NPC blood mages don't actually use Blood Magic, don't you?
Their spells for instance, if you edited them in to use yourself, are usable without it.
Besides my Templar can easily shut down any mage, blood mages included. They're still vunerable to a Templar's interrupts and silences.

Lorewise it would be pretty stupid for Templars to be inherently weak against blood magic, part of their purpose is to hunt maleficarum.

[Noatz]

The very fact that there seems to be an equal ratio of these threads to threads bemoaning the Templars and their right of annulment seems to suggest the moral dilemma presented is at least somewhat balanced.

[Plaintiff]

Hard for you maybe. I have no issue siding with the mages.

[The Big Nothing]

No it isn't. The options are:

a) Support the oppressive templars who attempt small-scale genocide.

Support the oppressed mages and risk blood magic.

[C00Ki3 GiRL]

 I find it harder to support the Templars due to Bethany and also Merril,

When Bethany isn't there that then means Hawke is a mage  which makes it difficult to turn on the mages given your situation.

What im confused about is that if you choose to be a mage, why has no one (other than companions) noticed your an apostate???

Modifié par C00Ki3 GiRL, 11 avril 2011 - 01:46 .

[BlueMew]

Noatz wrote...

The very fact that there seems to be an equal ratio of these threads to threads bemoaning the Templars and their right of annulment seems to suggest the moral dilemma presented is at least somewhat balanced.

I'd say so, yes. Mostly due to his background, my Hawke is pretty protective of the mages, however criminal some of them are. It wouldn't have made a difference if the lily killer was a dwarf with a knife, his mother would have been just as dead.

If anything, it surprises me how many people have sympathy for the templars. Then again, I do understand Fenris too, to a degree. 
Summary: Kirkwall is just full of nutters. Poor, poor Hawke. He should have stayed in Ferelden