19 réponses à ce sujet

[steve3194]

could someone please explain to me what problems they
have (if any) with the combat system from reading the forums alone I've
heard that its "horid" and that we need an "overhaul of the combat
system" I disagree, I loved the new combat system don't see the problem
with it---enemies exploding? not really that big a deal
If however
it is a problem for pc users i couldnt comment on that but would still
like to hear your thoughts

[Jim_uk]

Breakdancing mages and Ninja rogues, overdone effects and paratrooper enemies that make any sort of tactical play impossible. Oh and there is far too much of it.

[steve3194]

Jim_uk wrote...

Breakdancing mages and Ninja rogues, overdone effects and paratrooper enemies that make any sort of tactical play impossible. Oh and there is far too much of it.

Ok point taken.But i hope your not suggesting a return to the robotic animations of origins
breakdancing mage>robotic mage:D

[thatbwoyblu]

Play with a bow and arrow and you wont get wacky combat my fellow goldie oldie bwoys.

[Jim_uk]

steve3194 wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Breakdancing mages and Ninja rogues, overdone effects and paratrooper enemies that make any sort of tactical play impossible. Oh and there is far too much of it.

Ok point taken.But i hope your not suggesting a return to the robotic animations of origins
breakdancing mage>robotic mage{smilie}

Maybe they could find some middle ground, that or put some disco music in to match DA2s combat animations.

thatbwoyblu wrote...

Play with a bow and arrow and you wont get wacky combat my fellow goldie oldie bwoys.

That's great until enemies parachute in behind you, maybe that's why they added Kung Fu to the archers?

Modifié par Jim_uk, 11 avril 2011 - 02:53 .

[Psython]

steve3194 wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Breakdancing mages and Ninja rogues, overdone effects and paratrooper enemies that make any sort of tactical play impossible. Oh and there is far too much of it.

Ok point taken.But i hope your not suggesting a return to the robotic animations of origins
breakdancing mage>robotic mage:D

origins was not robotic IMO. Most of the animations were well done but a little slow. Also, the pause between strikes made it seem kind of jerky. Still, if you have ever held a melee weapon its obvious that origins style is closer to reality. I think DA2 is a little too close to a cartoon style of combat to match the gritty and mature world of ferelden.

In DA3, I hope they can get rid of the waves on every fight and make the combat feel powerful and brutal without making it silly looking. I am just not a fan of dagger strikes exploding enemies. I also miss the great deathblows from origins.

[Jim_uk]

Anyway Oblivion done it first....

www.youtube.com/watch

[Boiny Bunny]

Coming mostly from a Nightmare perspective, although some of these apply to all difficulties:

1) Enemy rogues with backstab are incredibly broken. Often, if they backstab any rogue or mage in your party it is a one hit kill - meaning you must have somebody in your party who can resurrect (i.e. Anders). Now I understand the idea that an enemy assassin *should* be able to do massive damage and effectively kill a party member instantly, HOWEVER, this should NOT be combined with ridiculous amounts of HP, defense, and 3 potions each! Assassins are meant to be extremely high DPS and extremely frail. Having extreme DPS and extreme health/defense breaks them completely.

Now when I enter a fight with assassins, I am forced to kill ALL of the other enemies first, whilst hoping the assassin won't backstab Anders (if he does, have to restart the battle almost every time). Once ALL other enemies are dead, the assassin can't use backstab anymore for some reason - and I can attack him until he dies (which usually takes about 1 - 2 minutes of focused fire!!!)

2) Every single enemy in the game, especially bosses, have FAR too much or FAR too less HP. The enemies with the smallest HP bars should not exist in the game. They serve absolutely no purpose but to explode and shower blood all over the screen. Other enemies can take minutes to kill, even with all of your party members focusing on them.

And don't even get me started on bosses. The Act 1 boss, took me ~1 hour to kill in 1 attempt on Nightmare. 1 hour of just running around, attacking, running around, attacking. EASY to kill, takes FAR too long. Similar for the Act 2 boss, and others in between. I understand the desire to make the game hard - but giving enemies so much HP it takes minutes to kill a single 'elite' type enemy (of which there is at least 1 in every battle in the game) is ridiculous, and incredibly boring.

3) The waves system is terrible, and removes all semblance of strategy from the game. You'll be happily engaging a crowd of enemies, when all of a sudden, 20 more will magically teleport in right around your party. Them literally teleporting into the battlefield is immersion breaking, looks utterly ridiculous, and removes strategy from the game.

Because of the waves system, a typical battle in DA2 goes like this for me:

A) Make first wave spawn. Run away, kill them all. Now go back and make second wave spawn. Run away and kill them all. Repeat.

OR

Make first wave spawn. Get aggro on the tank (e.g. Aveline) then make her run around in circles for 20 minutes while my ranged characters kill everything.

Neither option is fun, requires any intelligence, and both take far longer than they should.

4) class/specialisation/equipment restrictions on Hawke and all other party members. It is ridiculous that I cannot make Merrill a spirit healer if I want to - I hate Anders and it annoys me immensely having to lug him around. I also greatly dislike the fact that 80% of the items I pick up are useless junk (2/3rds of the armour you pick up cannot ever be used, etc.)



I should point out that I play on the PC. I was over at a friend's house who has the game on the 360, and I tried out a 2-handed warrior on Normal difficulty. Suffice to say, the game changed completely from an incredibly broken and horrific combat system, to an utterly mindless button masher. I pushed A about 300 times per battle, things exploded all over the screen. I didn't have to take control of my other party members at all even once. I didn't even have to move the joystick once I got into a fight, Hawke just locked onto the next one and AAAAAAAAAAA.

It is now obvious that this is how the game is meant to be played. Nightmare mode clearly had little to zero actual play testing - otherwise surely the play testers would have warned that a boss fight which goes for over an hour is not in any way entertaining or difficult.

Anyway, there are more (like the 'instant AoE kill' spells that all enemy blood mages or arcane horrors have), but I've written enough to make my point.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Jim_uk wrote...

Kung Fu

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

They were generic enemies, from generic Kirkwall town
Hawke was chopping them right up and then chopping them right down
It's an ancient Ferelden art, to blow your foes apart
They gave the fans a slip, they felt they got a rip

...

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

...

[Romantiq]

Jim_uk wrote...

Anyway Oblivion done it first....

www.youtube.com/watch

You just made me want to go play Oblivion. The thought redownloading and adjusting the mods scares me though !!

[Jim_uk]

mrcrusty wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Kung Fu

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

They were generic enemies, from generic Kirkwall town
Hawke was chopping them right up and then chopping them right down
It's an ancient Ferelden art, to blow your foes apart
They gave the fans a slip, they felt they got a rip

...

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

...

Romantiq wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Anyway Oblivion done it first....

www.youtube.com/watch

You just made me want to go play Oblivion. The thought redownloading and adjusting the mods scares me though !!

I keep a back up of my data folder, I do the same for Morrowind and Fallout 3, it makes reinstalling a lot easier.

[steve3194]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Coming mostly from a Nightmare perspective, although some of these apply to all difficulties:

1) Enemy rogues with backstab are incredibly broken. Often, if they backstab any rogue or mage in your party it is a one hit kill - meaning you must have somebody in your party who can resurrect (i.e. Anders). Now I understand the idea that an enemy assassin *should* be able to do massive damage and effectively kill a party member instantly, HOWEVER, this should NOT be combined with ridiculous amounts of HP, defense, and 3 potions each! Assassins are meant to be extremely high DPS and extremely frail. Having extreme DPS and extreme health/defense breaks them completely.

Now when I enter a fight with assassins, I am forced to kill ALL of the other enemies first, whilst hoping the assassin won't backstab Anders (if he does, have to restart the battle almost every time). Once ALL other enemies are dead, the assassin can't use backstab anymore for some reason - and I can attack him until he dies (which usually takes about 1 - 2 minutes of focused fire!!!)

2) Every single enemy in the game, especially bosses, have FAR too much or FAR too less HP. The enemies with the smallest HP bars should not exist in the game. They serve absolutely no purpose but to explode and shower blood all over the screen. Other enemies can take minutes to kill, even with all of your party members focusing on them.

And don't even get me started on bosses. The Act 1 boss, took me ~1 hour to kill in 1 attempt on Nightmare. 1 hour of just running around, attacking, running around, attacking. EASY to kill, takes FAR too long. Similar for the Act 2 boss, and others in between. I understand the desire to make the game hard - but giving enemies so much HP it takes minutes to kill a single 'elite' type enemy (of which there is at least 1 in every battle in the game) is ridiculous, and incredibly boring.

3) The waves system is terrible, and removes all semblance of strategy from the game. You'll be happily engaging a crowd of enemies, when all of a sudden, 20 more will magically teleport in right around your party. Them literally teleporting into the battlefield is immersion breaking, looks utterly ridiculous, and removes strategy from the game.

Because of the waves system, a typical battle in DA2 goes like this for me:

A) Make first wave spawn. Run away, kill them all. Now go back and make second wave spawn. Run away and kill them all. Repeat.

OR

Make first wave spawn. Get aggro on the tank (e.g. Aveline) then make her run around in circles for 20 minutes while my ranged characters kill everything.

Neither option is fun, requires any intelligence, and both take far longer than they should.

4) class/specialisation/equipment restrictions on Hawke and all other party members. It is ridiculous that I cannot make Merrill a spirit healer if I want to - I hate Anders and it annoys me immensely having to lug him around. I also greatly dislike the fact that 80% of the items I pick up are useless junk (2/3rds of the armour you pick up cannot ever be used, etc.)



I should point out that I play on the PC. I was over at a friend's house who has the game on the 360, and I tried out a 2-handed warrior on Normal difficulty. Suffice to say, the game changed completely from an incredibly broken and horrific combat system, to an utterly mindless button masher. I pushed A about 300 times per battle, things exploded all over the screen. I didn't have to take control of my other party members at all even once. I didn't even have to move the joystick once I got into a fight, Hawke just locked onto the next one and AAAAAAAAAAA.

It is now obvious that this is how the game is meant to be played. Nightmare mode clearly had little to zero actual play testing - otherwise surely the play testers would have warned that a boss fight which goes for over an hour is not in any way entertaining or difficult.

Anyway, there are more (like the 'instant AoE kill' spells that all enemy blood mages or arcane horrors have), but I've written enough to make my point.

I have the game on the 360 and although you may think it a "mindless button masher" it  is far more enjoyable than the chess game origins was.Origins combat was the same on consoles, only it had you tap the A button at half the speed

I can accept the fact that enemy waves can distrupt tactical gameplay and i agree that assassins are overpowered but when people say the animations are cartoonish? no way they may be a bit over the top but it is a fantasy title and the combat being a tad over the top isnt that big a deal

I can accept your opinions on some of the combat's functional issues
but having not played the game on the pc I can't say the "waves" in the combat were an issue for me
either way the combats speed should NEVER be reduced to that of origins, I can understand fixing some functional issues even slowing it down a small bit if completely neccesary but not to the same speed of Origins

[Wye]

My Hawke got slow near the end of the game when attacking. Any reasons for this?

[steve3194]

mrcrusty wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Kung Fu

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

They were generic enemies, from generic Kirkwall town
Hawke was chopping them right up and then chopping them right down
It's an ancient Ferelden art, to blow your foes apart
They gave the fans a slip, they felt they got a rip

...

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

...

ok:blink:

how long did that take you?

[steve3194]

Wye wrote...

My Hawke got slow near the end of the game when attacking. Any reasons for this?

isabela friendship glitch
I somehow did'nt get it
Biowares working on a patch I think

[Jim_uk]

Wye wrote...

My Hawke got slow near the end of the game when attacking. Any reasons for this?

It's a bug.

[Wye]

I was a friend to all of my party members, and there were many bugs in the game. I guess those two might have caused it.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

steve3194 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Kung Fu

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

They were generic enemies, from generic Kirkwall town
Hawke was chopping them right up and then chopping them right down
It's an ancient Ferelden art, to blow your foes apart
They gave the fans a slip, they felt they got a rip

...

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

...

ok:blink:

how long did that take you?

Maybe 5 minutes or so. All I'm doing is replacing a couple of words here and there.

To be fair, I think DA 2's combat had some good improvements and ideas over Origins combat. But as a whole, they did mess it up big imo. Decent ideas, but incredibly flawed execution. I wrote out a more thought out opinion on combat somewhere else on the forums. I'll see if I can find it.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 11 avril 2011 - 03:38 .

[Boiny Bunny]

^ I don't have a problem with the speed or animations. My complaints are mainly core components of the combat system, rather than the paint on top.

I guess it partly relates to what kind of games you like.

I love Baldur's Gate 1/2. I loved Origins. The 'chess game' as you describe it, is the way the game is designed and meant to play. I appreciate that this may not appeal to you, but that was intentional for Dragon Age Origins. It was meant to be about tactics and thought - and to me, and many others, was infinitely more enjoyable than DA2's combat system.

Now don't get me wrong. I like action games as well. Ninja Gaiden 1/2, DMC (all), Bayonetta, etc. I've played them all through many times, on all the difficulties. Those games require skill, reflexes, and timing. You have to perform a vide variety of combos very fast, whilst dodging enemy attacks and making instantaneous judgements about where to position yourself next.

Dragon Age 2 absolutely fails as an action game in that regard. There is no skill required whatsoever. You simply push AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and once in a while X or Y.

It's like a terrible mix between action and strategy, that fails to capture the good elements of either, let alone both.


And Origins on the 360 had auto-attack - you pushed A once to engage an enemy. It was not meant to be about button mashing, or reflexes. Quite the opposite. Not many button pushes, pause the game every few seconds to reposition or tell everybody in the party what to do next, etc.

[Otterwarden]

mrcrusty wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

Kung Fu

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

They were generic enemies, from generic Kirkwall town
Hawke was chopping them right up and then chopping them right down
It's an ancient Ferelden art, to blow your foes apart
They gave the fans a slip, they felt they got a rip

...

Dragon Age 2 loves Kung Fu fighting
Kill 'em all with massive chain lightning
Explosions were a little bit frightening
But they spawned with expert timing

...

Bravo!!!!