174 réponses à ce sujet

[sympathy4saren]

So what are some other games you guys play?

[Pscyon]

nremies1 wrote...
In Mass Effect terms, I never understood why my soldier Shep had to level up her assault rifle skill in ME1.  Isn't she wearing the Mass Effect equivalent of a Special Forces tab on her sleeve??? 

Considering how rubbish ALL the enemies you meet are, the bar is set rather low for being elite

[javierabegazo]

 

sympathy4saren wrote...


But no, it was all dumbed down so the shooters could LITERALLY play the game. It was too hard for them. Hell, anyone one can play a shooter, its a stinking shooter. It's baby cake. You think rpg players have trouble playing it? Not because of the infant mechanics....but because its mind meltingingly simplistic, linear and mindless. You primarily push one button.

Here's that putrid elitism again. Just because I like chocolate ice cream and you like vanilla ice cream does NOT make you a better appreciator of Ice Cream.

Let that sink in.

Now, Shooters require plenty of skill, but it's different kind of skill. Most of the skill in Shooters come from On-The-Fly thinking, planning, do I reload now or can I make up the distance and knife that guy?  Do I pick up the Machine gun and make up for my lack of accuracy with clip size?? It's a totally different type of planning, that when you really look at the roots, isn't so different from "Do I equip this +10% Fire Damage amulet or this +20% Mana amulet.

Linearity is simply either a flaw in level design, or a strength in Narrative and has not all that much to do with genre as we think it does, but rather to do with Developers conforming to established aspects that " worked for them" rather than experimentation.


I don't play RPG's more than shooters because of the Number-crunching game that you feel is so vastly superior. I play RPG's more than shooters because they tend to have better fleshed out STORIES.

Which is why we play BioWare games.

For Story.

[Walker White]

When did massive inventory become required for RPGs? The grognard forums (which are really old school guys who do not recognize any computer game as an RPG) are mystified by this preoccupation with loot when I mention it.

Loot heavy games often result in these highly unrealistic implementations like ME1. Shepard had a Bag of Holding that could hold a massive amount of armor and upgrades that he could swap in and out in the middle of combat. That is about as far from an RPG that I can think of.

Restricting inventory, but allowing massive customization on the Normandy (which apparently is what ME3 supports) is exactly what you want. It is also old school RPG. Think encumberance rules.

[Eternz]

One thing im worried about is that combat sounds so incredibly awesome in ME3 with all its diving and mobility improvements, its going to be even harder to playthrough ME2, let alone ME1

[Savber100]

Big Surprise: A RPG is not strictly defined by the gameplay or even having an inventory system.

Upgrading, winning fights, and collecting new items to gain power over the course of the game are features of many games that are absolutely not RPGs. Half Life (along with just about every FPS before and since) features a story arc in which the player grows more powerful through the collection of new weapons (and, consequently, abilities). That isn’t enough. What makes these events significant in an RPG is that they come about through consequential choices made by the player.

I dragged this definition from the freaking RPG Codex... Nasty place but they occasionly make really good points !

There... so hush up about that ME is not a RPG because it real-time, gun-blazing gameplay. Choices and consequences is what makes a RPG, a RPG.

Modifié par Savber100, 11 avril 2011 - 04:21 .

[Epic777]

sympathy4saren wrote...

So what are some other games you guys play?

RPG wise these are ones I have beaten 

WRPG
------------------------------------

BgI
BG II
KOTOR I
KOTOR II
Morrowind
Oblivion 
Arcanum
Fallout 3
me1 
me2
Deus Ex1
Deus Ex2
System Shock 2


JRPG
------------------------------------
chrono trigger
chrono chross
SMRPG
Final Fantasy 5,6,7,9,12
Seiken Densetsu 3
Phantasy Star 4

[Digifi]

Hmm, I'm at the point where I'm not a fan calling games "shooters" or "RPGs". They're just games with different mechanics and sometimes emphasize story or multiplayer. Sorry guys, I have to go complete geek style. If we're down to brass tacks about ACTUAL rpgs...*floats into table top mode*

Digifi: "Shepard pops AR and stands up out of cover attempting to shoot his enemies"
GM: "Sounds good...Roll your first attack"
Digifi: *rolls a 16* "Ok, a 16 with +5 with assault rifles for a 21. I'll roll damage in case its a hit. Woot! I rolled an 11 on my d12! Did it hit?"
GM: "You see a brief flash as your rounds penetrate his kinetic barriers, then your target convulses as the high velocity projectiles penetrate his armor, shredding his arm. He's critically injured but still alive"
Digifi: "I've got one more attack during this AR to finish him off!" *rolls a 1* "Uhhh, I rolled a 1..."
GM: "Well, that provokes an attack of opportunity from your target. Despite his injuries your target makes a heroic move" *sounds of dice rolling behind the screen* "HA! Your target rolled a critical hit! And with the damage multiplier, and my obscene rolls, he deals 52 points of damage"
Digifi: ...
GM: "What?"
Digifi: "That's enough damage to kill me..."
GM: "Well, looks like that lowly merc just saved the reapers a lot of trouble. Your failure has cost the races of the galaxy as the reapers will now proceed unhindered. Want to roll a new character?"

Mmmmm, tasty REAL rpg elements!

Modifié par Digifi, 11 avril 2011 - 04:24 .

[Tazzmission]

Walker White wrote...

When did massive inventory become required for RPGs? The grognard forums (which are really old school guys who do not recognize any computer game as an RPG) are mystified by this preoccupation with loot when I mention it.

Loot heavy games often result in these highly unrealistic implementations like ME1. Shepard had a Bag of Holding that could hold a massive amount of armor and upgrades that he could swap in and out in the middle of combat. That is about as far from an RPG that I can think of.

Restricting inventory, but allowing massive customization on the Normandy (which apparently is what ME3 supports) is exactly what you want. It is also old school RPG. Think encumberance rules.

yea i didnt like the 150 limit in me1 at all. now please clarify this whole loot discussion because i admit i dont know what it is

[javierabegazo]

Eternz wrote...

One thing im worried about is that combat sounds so incredibly awesome in ME3 with all its diving and mobility improvements, its going to be even harder to playthrough ME2, let alone ME1

It explicitly states in the article:   "Mass Effect 3 will be more difficult than the second game, but the team wants the challenge to be fun instead of frustrating."


Don't worry is all I say

[Harmless Crunch]

So your saying that by increasing the difficullty of gameplay, bringing back some traditonal RPG elements, allowing you to loot enemy weapons and making the gameplay more complex BioWare are appeling to the shooter crowd ?

[javierabegazo]

Digifi wrote...
-snip-

Mmmmm, tasty REAL rpg elements!

Lol, Good ol' times

[Tazzmission]

javierabegazo wrote...

Eternz wrote...

One thing im worried about is that combat sounds so incredibly awesome in ME3 with all its diving and mobility improvements, its going to be even harder to playthrough ME2, let alone ME1

It explicitly states in the article:   "Mass Effect 3 will be more difficult than the second game, but the team wants the challenge to be fun instead of frustrating."


Don't worry is all I say

most challenging huh? im up for it but i hope to god it dosent go the dead space 2 route..... what i mean by that is you literally have enemies all around you

[sympathy4saren]

Can anybody name one rpg without an inventory system? Plus, is Mass Effect 3 an rpg ready to compete with this?? (Copy paste link if no link appears)

http://m.youtube.com...r&v=PjqsYzBrP-M

I wonder if the "mundane fetch quests" and "burdensome inventory system" is going to prevent them from taking best rpg of 2011???

[Epic777]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Can anybody name one rpg without an inventory system? Plus, is Mass Effect 3 an rpg ready to compete with this?? (Copy paste link if no link appears)

http://m.youtube.com...r&v=PjqsYzBrP-M

I wonder if the "mundane fetch quests" and "burdensome inventory system" is going to prevent them from taking best rpg of 2011???

BIoshock

[javierabegazo]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Can anybody name one rpg without an inventory system? Plus, is Mass Effect 3 an rpg ready to compete with this?? (Copy paste link if no link appears)

http://m.youtube.com...r&v=PjqsYzBrP-M

I wonder if the "mundane fetch quests" and "burdensome inventory system" is going to prevent them from taking best rpg of 2011???

Even if they win best RPG of 2011, I bet Mass Effect 3 will win 'Best game of 2011" witth the Mass Effect Trilogy going down in history as one of the most incredible gaming experiences of all time.

[DTKT]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Can anybody name one rpg without an inventory system? Plus, is Mass Effect 3 an rpg ready to compete with this?? (Copy paste link if no link appears)

http://m.youtube.com...r&v=PjqsYzBrP-M

I wonder if the "mundane fetch quests" and "burdensome inventory system" is going to prevent them from taking best rpg of 2011???

It really depends on you.

An inventory system does not equate to an RPG. It might help define it but it doesnt transform any game into a full blown RPG. It's a mix of all the different mechanics.

And your link doesnt work.(I bet it's a Witcher 2 link )

[Walker White]

Tazzmission wrote...

yea i didnt like the 150 limit in me1 at all. now please clarify this whole loot discussion because i admit i dont know what it is

If you go back to OD&D (that is the brown books before AD&D came out in 1979), the adventures had very few items in them.  Magic items were beyond rare.  All the items were essentially monetary in value.  And the game had extreme encumberance rules that limited how much you could carry.  DMs at the time used to delight on making players go in and out of a location multiple times to cart out all their loot.

Modern looting, where everything has cool and interesting items, evolved slowly over time.  It is partly an outcome of the soft level cap of OD&D and AD&D.  Because XP awards went up linearly with level, but XP requirements were sub-exponential, you hit a effective wall around "name level" (12th level or so).  Magic items provided a way to continue going up in power while not going up in level.  You see the same effects today in the endgame of World of Warcraft.

But old players see this as a bastardization of the original game. 

[javierabegazo]

Tazzmission wrote...



most challenging huh? im up for it but i hope to god it dosent go the dead space 2 route..... what i mean by that is you literally have enemies all around you

Lmao, I just beat Dead Space 2's Hardcore Mode and it was one of the most fun, most harrowing, most hair-pulling, most fun, most memorable video game experiences I've ever had the fortune of having.

 That said, It would be cool if in an Hardcore mode for Mass Effect 3 there was friendly fire or no ally revives. something like that 

[Chromie]

javierabegazo wrote...

 

sympathy4saren wrote...


But no, it was all dumbed down so the shooters could LITERALLY play the game. It was too hard for them. Hell, anyone one can play a shooter, its a stinking shooter. It's baby cake. You think rpg players have trouble playing it? Not because of the infant mechanics....but because its mind meltingingly simplistic, linear and mindless. You primarily push one button.

Here's that putrid elitism again. Just because I like chocolate ice cream and you like vanilla ice cream does NOT make you a better appreciator of Ice Cream.

Oh yes it does. Chocolate is wrong according to this! Vanilla is right

But yes people need to shut up. You know next to nothing right now about Mass Effect 3 so I wonder what feature you are referring to? Having played ME2 I have to say ME1 has become less enjoyable because of how improved the shooting mechanics are in the ME2. It's clunky in ME1 and the talents weren't great just fluff nothing special and combat was easy and isn't ME3 supposed to have more RPG elements unlike ME2?

At least wait until you get to see actual game mechanics before you start judging after all the flak Bioware is getting for Dragon Age 2 I think they want people to know they still can make some of the best RPG's especially since *cough The Witcher 2 cough* is out soon (omg omg so excited!).

[Tazzmission]

javierabegazo wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...



most challenging huh? im up for it but i hope to god it dosent go the dead space 2 route..... what i mean by that is you literally have enemies all around you

Lmao, I just beat Dead Space 2's Hardcore Mode and it was one of the most fun, most harrowing, most hair-pulling, most fun, most memorable video game experiences I've ever had the fortune of having.

 That said, It would be cool if in an Hardcore mode for Mass Effect 3 there was friendly fire or no ally revives. something like that 

what i meant was i hope it dosent end up very beefed up to the extent wher ei cant pull a shot off. i love dead space 2 but man theres moments in the game im like damnit i cant get a shot

[sympathy4saren]

javierabegazo wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Can anybody name one rpg without an inventory system? Plus, is Mass Effect 3 an rpg ready to compete with this?? (Copy paste link if no link appears)

http://m.youtube.com...r&v=PjqsYzBrP-M

I wonder if the "mundane fetch quests" and "burdensome inventory system" is going to prevent them from taking best rpg of 2011???

Even if they win best RPG of 2011, I bet Mass Effect 3 will win 'Best game of 2011" witth the Mass Effect Trilogy going down in history as one of the most incredible gaming experiences of all time

I agree, Mass Effect is the best piece of fiction ever (that's saying a lot) and my favorite series ever. But if it would have stayed less shooter, it would have been even better.

[Tazzmission]

Walker White wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

yea i didnt like the 150 limit in me1 at all. now please clarify this whole loot discussion because i admit i dont know what it is

If you go back to OD&D (that is the brown books before AD&D came out in 1979), the adventures had very few items in them.  Magic items were beyond rare.  All the items were essentially monetary in value.  And the game had extreme encumberance rules that limited how much you could carry.  DMs at the time used to delight on making players go in and out of a location multiple times to cart out all their loot.

Modern looting, where everything has cool and interesting items, evolved slowly over time.  It is partly an outcome of the soft level cap of OD&D and AD&D.  Because XP awards went up linearly with level, but XP requirements were sub-exponential, you hit a effective wall around "name level" (12th level or so).  Magic items provided a way to continue going up in power while not going up in level.  You see the same effects today in the endgame of World of Warcraft.

But old players see this as a bastardization of the original game. 

ok thanks for that.

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah....um....its not the Witcher 2.

It's The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

Take a peak at the gameplay trailer if you get a chance.

[javierabegazo]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Yeah....um....its not the Witcher 2.

It's The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

Take a peak at the gameplay trailer if you get a chance.

I assumed it was that.