174 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

didymos1120 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I'd call ME2's system an equipment system, not an inventory system.

I don't see how this is a meaningful distinction.  Most of the crap found in ME1 consisted of guns and armor, and those were the two things you still had direct control (at least for Shep) over in ME2 (and yes: your access to it was restricted).

I don't see the distinction either. The advantage of the ME1 system was that you could swap your gear and mods on the fly and whenever you found something new. In shops you could compare what stuff you had and what your companions were using. You could compare gear to other gear to see if it was worth picking up or selling. Very handy. I am no console user, but I guess (and I am not sure) that it was easier to use on the PC than on the consoles. Maybe someone who used both can tell me. I am interested in that.

[Terror_K]

ME1's inventory in the PC was a bit better, yes. But it was still largely the same for the most part. Just kind of reskinned a little and reorganised to be more user-friendly.

[CroGamer002]

^XBox has it even worse?!

[johnbonhamatron]

The strange thing was this: I hated the inventory in ME1, loathed it to the very core of my being, but I loved fiddling about in it, to get everyone with the right gear. Now, I may well just be a contrary sod, but there you go.

I do really like the sound of where it's going in the third game, I have to say. The only thing I would say is that... well, I kinda liked having ammo powers instead of add-on hardware. I could switch between ammo types on the fly, mid-firefight, without having to go into the inventory, and that is something I'd be a bit grumpy about losing.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Terror_K wrote...

ME1's inventory in the PC was a bit better, yes. But it was still largely the same for the most part. Just kind of reskinned a little and reorganised to be more user-friendly.

Do you think that was enough to validate that people hated it on the console? I am really trying to understand why it was such a big issue.

At the time this was an issue on the forums (when ME2 was in development) most people hated omnigel and that money had no real value. Nobody complained about the inventory itself. It took my by surprise when BW dreamed up that the solutions to those problems were: Remove the inventory and no more looting. Instead they could have removed the omnigel and do something about the prizes or maybe less loot.

[javierabegazo]

The only reason I liked ME1's inventory was the weapon mods, and using that glitch to make my Adept wear Heavy Krogan armor

[Pscyon]

johnbonhamatron wrote...

The only thing I would say is that... well, I kinda liked having ammo powers instead of add-on hardware. I could switch between ammo types on the fly, mid-firefight, without having to go into the inventory, and that is something I'd be a bit grumpy about losing.

Handy? Yes. A nice replacement for actual powers? No. Gimme my Lift, Warp and Barrier back I liked it when Vanguard was a decent Biotic class rather than a shotgun class with a couple Biotic powers. I'll happily sacrifice ammo powers for ammo upgrades if it means getting my Biotics back.

[AlanC9]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
You are good at isolating phrases from posts. Please don't and show the context. Now I have to repeat myself. I have explained in detail how terrible it was to access it and in detail why I thought these magical devices were a mystery to me. Read it back.

I was only curious about why you were bringing logic into it. I got that you didn't like the ME2 system, but anyone who demands logic from RPG equipment systems must go around in a perpetual state of nerdrage. I can't remember one without anything obviously silly about it since maybe Fallout 2. (Although The Witcher isn't too bad, since the lack of stuff in the game means that you don't have the issues that you do in NWN)

You really thought that those were suppossed to be actual devices in the game world, and not a pure gameplay element? Or is that just rhetoric?

[Admoniter]

johnbonhamatron wrote...
I do really like the sound of where it's going in the third game, I have to say. The only thing I would say is that... well, I kinda liked having ammo powers instead of add-on hardware. I could switch between ammo types on the fly, mid-firefight, without having to go into the inventory, and that is something I'd be a bit grumpy about losing.

There are ways to keep the on the fly ability to swap in ammo mods (which I also enjoy) while ditching ammo powers (which I loathe) and giving combat classes some proper powers and at the same time not arbitrarly restrict other classes access to said ammo mods.

[johnbonhamatron]

I saw someone in another thread (I'd cite them, but I can't remember who it was, sorry) suggest having ammo powers on a separate bit in the power-pause-selector-thing. That could work quite well, as it frees up slots for other powers in the power-pause-selector-thing.

Sorry for the Buffyspeak, I've been up all night.

[Freeride600]

johnbonhamatron wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

What's wrong with having moar of both? That's what I want. and that's what they're telling us we can expect. =/= problem...

This. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the vibe I'm getting is "Every awesome thing ever included, plus the kitchen sink. And it's an awesome sink".

NO! no kitchen sink - I don't care how awesome it is! 

We can all hope for improvements, but chances are nearly everyone is going to have to make compromises. (like ammo powers vs. weapon mods). 

Also, I far prefer the weapon inventory of ME2. I would rather have fewer guns that have unique models, animations, and sounds. No gun in ME1 held any signifcance to me - it was just a number an pretty color. 

Modifié par Freeride600, 11 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[DarthCaine]

Last time I checked, Mass Effect had GUNS and SHOOTING, which makes it highly likely they'd want to improve the combat

[javierabegazo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

ME1's inventory in the PC was a bit better, yes. But it was still largely the same for the most part. Just kind of reskinned a little and reorganised to be more user-friendly.

Do you think that was enough to validate that people hated it on the console? I am really trying to understand why it was such a big issue.

At the time this was an issue on the forums (when ME2 was in development) most people hated omnigel and that money had no real value. Nobody complained about the inventory itself. It took my by surprise when BW dreamed up that the solutions to those problems were: Remove the inventory and no more looting. Instead they could have removed the omnigel and do something about the prizes or maybe less loot.

Here's the main reason why I like ME2's approach more:

I can't recal a single weapon out of the hundreds of guns in ME1 that I have any sort of sentimental connection with.   At all.   I found myself changing weapons 10 times in one hour. I had no time or motive to actually "get to know" any of the weapons. 

In ME2, I distinctly, intimately know each and every one of the 30 weapons, I know their clip sizes, pros and cons, hell I can recite all of them by name from memory.

Most importantly, I love the way the weapons in ME2 FEEL, how they work, how they sound, etc.
I have no such connection at all with ME1.

The only thing I liked about ME1's inventory system, was Armor Upgrades, Weapon Upgrades, and BIotic amps and Omni-Tools.

That, and finding matching suits

[AngryFrozenWater]

javierabegazo wrote...

The only reason I liked ME1's inventory was the weapon mods, and using that glitch to make my Adept wear Heavy Krogan armor

Ghehe. Probably the mods left because the inventory was gone. They are back again in ME3. So that's something. I really would like the ammo mods back. Ammo powers seems wrong. To me mods make more sense.

[Icinix]

Freeride600 wrote...

johnbonhamatron wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

What's wrong with having moar of both? That's what I want. and that's what they're telling us we can expect. =/= problem...

This. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the vibe I'm getting is "Every awesome thing ever included, plus the kitchen sink. And it's an awesome sink".

NO! no kitchen sink - I don't care how awesome it is! 

We can all hope for improvements, but chances are nearly everyone is going to have to make compromise. (like ammo powers vs. weapon mods). 

BUT...the compromises are looking to be less harsh...and more along the 'everyone is slightly happy with these compromises' rather than the 'someone is upset at this compromise'.

[LPPrince]

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

ME1's inventory in the PC was a bit better, yes. But it was still largely the same for the most part. Just kind of reskinned a little and reorganised to be more user-friendly.

Do you think that was enough to validate that people hated it on the console? I am really trying to understand why it was such a big issue.

At the time this was an issue on the forums (when ME2 was in development) most people hated omnigel and that money had no real value. Nobody complained about the inventory itself. It took my by surprise when BW dreamed up that the solutions to those problems were: Remove the inventory and no more looting. Instead they could have removed the omnigel and do something about the prizes or maybe less loot.

Here's the main reason why I like ME2's approach more:

I can't recal a single weapon out of the hundreds of guns in ME1 that I have any sort of sentimental connection with.   At all.   I found myself changing weapons 10 times in one hour. I had no time or motive to actually "get to know" any of the weapons. 

In ME2, I distinctly, intimately know each and every one of the 30 weapons, I know their clip sizes, pros and cons, hell I can recite all of them by name from memory.

Most importantly, I love the way the weapons in ME2 FEEL, how they work, how they sound, etc.
I have no such connection at all with ME1.

The only thing I liked about ME1's inventory system, was Armor Upgrades, Weapon Upgrades, and BIotic amps and Omni-Tools.

That, and finding matching suits

In other words, you liked both for different reasons. Not preferring one over the other, really.

[Icinix]

javierabegazo wrote...
The only thing I liked about ME1's inventory system, was Armor Upgrades, Weapon Upgrades, and BIotic amps and Omni-Tools.

Pretty much.

That, and finding matching suits

..at least I wasn't the only one...

[AngryFrozenWater]

AlanC9 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
You are good at isolating phrases from posts. Please don't and show the context. Now I have to repeat myself. I have explained in detail how terrible it was to access it and in detail why I thought these magical devices were a mystery to me. Read it back.

I was only curious about why you were bringing logic into it. I got that you didn't like the ME2 system, but anyone who demands logic from RPG equipment systems must go around in a perpetual state of nerdrage. I can't remember one without anything obviously silly about it since maybe Fallout 2. (Although The Witcher isn't too bad, since the lack of stuff in the game means that you don't have the issues that you do in NWN)

You really thought that those were suppossed to be actual devices in the game world, and not a pure gameplay element? Or is that just rhetoric?

I doubt that you really want an answer. Especially because you emphasized "really". Whatever answer I give it will not be good enough for you.

[johnbonhamatron]

Icinix wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

johnbonhamatron wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

What's wrong with having moar of both? That's what I want. and that's what they're telling us we can expect. =/= problem...

This. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the vibe I'm getting is "Every awesome thing ever included, plus the kitchen sink. And it's an awesome sink".

NO! no kitchen sink - I don't care how awesome it is! 

We can all hope for improvements, but chances are nearly everyone is going to have to make compromise. (like ammo powers vs. weapon mods). 

BUT...the compromises are looking to be less harsh...and more along the 'everyone is slightly happy with these compromises' rather than the 'someone is upset at this compromise'.

Yup, we seem (on current info) to ALL be getting more of what we want, which can only be a good thing.

And to Freeride, would you settle for a bathroom sink?

EDIT: 
LOL, I also went for matching suits in ME1, and didn't rest till I had 'em.

Modifié par johnbonhamatron, 11 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[javierabegazo]

LPPrince wrote...

In other words, you liked both for different reasons. Not preferring one over the other, really.

In other words, if I had to sacrifice one system in favor of the other, I'd opt to go with ME2's detail in the function of guns, as Mass Effect, in the end, is a 3rd person RPG Shooter.

But hopefully, the way ME3 is looking, I won't have to choose, we'll just get the best of both worlds

[LPPrince]

javierabegazo wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

In other words, you liked both for different reasons. Not preferring one over the other, really.

In other words, if I had to sacrifice one system in favor of the other, I'd opt to go with ME2's detail in the function of guns, as Mass Effect, in the end, is a 3rd person RPG Shooter.

But hopefully, the way ME3 is looking, I won't have to choose, we'll just get the best of both worlds

I want a goddamn inventory. And matching armor. I remember putting everyone in Colossus except for Wrex and Garrus, Wrex having a Geth armor(the black and blue one) and Garrus rocking Nihlus' armor.

I always rolled in Predator M X.

[javierabegazo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
 To access your stuff during a mission you found magical devices that connected to the Normandy's armory and somehow beamed your stuff back. These devices were scattered all over of the galaxy. From merc camps to collector vessels. How they got there was a mystery. Sometimes you couldn't find them at all. Don't tell me that crap was an improvement. It was a pain to access and no logic to it. Hehe.

I do want to point out that this is no less illogical than having a squad of 3 people running around with enough gear to outfit a battalion, and being able to switch armor while traipsing about in harsh, oxygen-less environments.

[javierabegazo]

LPPrince wrote...


I want a goddamn inventory. And matching armor. I remember putting everyone in Colossus except for Wrex and Garrus, Wrex having a Geth armor(the black and blue one) and Garrus rocking Nihlus' armor.

I always rolled in Predator M X.

I always left Kaidan in Phoenix armor

[AngryFrozenWater]

javierabegazo wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

In other words, you liked both for different reasons. Not preferring one over the other, really.

In other words, if I had to sacrifice one system in favor of the other, I'd opt to go with ME2's detail in the function of guns, as Mass Effect, in the end, is a 3rd person RPG Shooter.

But hopefully, the way ME3 is looking, I won't have to choose, we'll just get the best of both worlds

Yeah. It is a compromise I can live wih. But it is not one I enjoy.

[AngryFrozenWater]

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
 To access your stuff during a mission you found magical devices that connected to the Normandy's armory and somehow beamed your stuff back. These devices were scattered all over of the galaxy. From merc camps to collector vessels. How they got there was a mystery. Sometimes you couldn't find them at all. Don't tell me that crap was an improvement. It was a pain to access and no logic to it. Hehe.

I do want to point out that this is no less illogical than having a squad of 3 people running around with enough gear to outfit a battalion, and being able to switch armor while traipsing about in harsh, oxygen-less environments.

I agree. There was too much in that inventory. That does not mean you have to remove the inventory itself. Reduce the number of items you find. That way you don't have to turn your stuff into omnigel. And about your second example... Here's a variation of that: I remember posting about why only one in your team needed a protective suit to protect all companions. I am aware of those issues. No doubt that there are other weird things in the game. When possible I like to avoid most of them. That doesn't mean that because there are others that I have to love them all.