174 réponses à ce sujet

[Da Mecca]

MrDizaztar wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

johnbonhamatron wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

What's wrong with having moar of both? That's what I want. and that's what they're telling us we can expect. =/= problem...

This. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the vibe I'm getting is "Every awesome thing ever included, plus the kitchen sink. And it's an awesome sink".

Press a button and something awesome will happen?

We already have that.

It's called Renegade interrupt.

QFT

Even though I was a Paragon, I always did renegade interrupts.

They just felt appropriate for my Earthborn Shep, gave him that extra edge.

[SalsaDMA]

Da Mecca wrote...

MrDizaztar wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

johnbonhamatron wrote...

Freeride600 wrote...

What's wrong with having moar of both? That's what I want. and that's what they're telling us we can expect. =/= problem...

This. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the vibe I'm getting is "Every awesome thing ever included, plus the kitchen sink. And it's an awesome sink".

Press a button and something awesome will happen?

We already have that.

It's called Renegade interrupt.

QFT

Even though I was a Paragon, I always did renegade interrupts.

They just felt appropriate for my Earthborn Shep, gave him that extra edge.

Somewhere along the line I think my joke got lost

[Nathan Redgrave]

javierabegazo wrote...

Guys, can we stop it with the trite hyperbole of "catering to ____ crowd". It implies a superiority in the speakers preference and stinks of elitism. There are good and bad things about every genre, and more importantly, it's good for a game, book or movie to NOT just hug tight to pre established "rules" but rather forge ahead and find a system that works for that piece of work as an individual

My name is Nathan Redgrave, and I approve of this message.

Incidentally, ME2 did go far too far down the "streamlining" path, but if you have any illusions that the elements it removed didn't suck in ME1 itself, you weren't paying attention.

ME3 seems to be shooting for a happy middle ground between the two, as it damn well should. Be happy. It's going to be a game with RPG elements that don't make you want to shoot yourself after the eighth hour, AND it's going to have shooter mechanics that don't suck like ME1's did. Everyone wins.

EDIT: For the record, ME1 having ten versions of every item was not a good thing. It was a bad thing, and you should feel bad for endorsing it if you do.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 11 avril 2011 - 01:38 .

[merrick97]

Yes, I do feel that Bioware is catering more to the shooter crowd.

And its a better product because of it!

[Fluffy Pyro]

Having 9 weak models of the same gun and a 10th powerful version never made sense either. Why would that gun manufacturer deliberately make so many inferior versions when they were always capable of making powerful weapons? There are multiple M4 variants, but they differ in firing mode, attachments, reliability, effective range, regions in which they're utilized and re-purposed. Not straight up 'damage'.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Fluffy Pyro wrote...

Having 9 weak models of the same gun and a 10th powerful version never made sense either. Why would that gun manufacturer deliberately make so many inferior versions when they were always capable of making powerful weapons? There are multiple M4 variants, but they differ in firing mode, attachments, reliability, effective range, regions in which they're utilized and re-purposed. Not straight up 'damage'.

This is an even more convoluted version of the syndrome nearly every RPG ever made prior to this generation suffers: for some reason, this sharp object does ten bajillion times more damage than that sharp object for no particular reason other than that you bought it at the end of the game rather than halfway through. It's unrealistic and gamey. ME2's weapon system is far more down-to-earth in that regard: you have different weapons with different capabilities, and those capabilities don't become obsolete two hours later because your enemies happen to have "leveled up."

ME1's weapons-modding, on the other hand, was an interesting concept. Bringing that back sans the ten-versions-of-every-item thing is a very, very good idea. Properly balanced, it'll have all the depth of the original system (or more), but none of the inventory lag. Potentially a perfect example of that old addage, "Less is more."

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 11 avril 2011 - 01:54 .

[Terror_K]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

This is an even more convoluted version of the syndrome nearly every RPG ever made prior to this generation suffers: for some reason, this sharp object does ten bajillion times more damage than that sharp object for no particular reason other than that you bought it at the end of the game rather than halfway through. It's unrealistic and gamey. ME2's weapon system is far more down-to-earth in that regard: you have different weapons with different capabilities, and those capabilities don't become obsolete two hours later because your enemies happen to have "leveled up."

ME1's weapons-modding, on the other hand, was an interesting concept. Bringing that back sans the ten-versions-of-every-item thing is a very, very good idea. Properly balanced, it'll have all the depth of the original system (or more), but none of the inventory lag. Potentially a perfect example of that old addage, "Less is more."

^ This, pretty much. It's gratifying to see that the devs realised that they overshot the mark with ME2 and are backing up again. Here's hoping they find said mark this time.

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

This is an even more convoluted version of the syndrome nearly every RPG ever made prior to this generation suffers: for some reason, this sharp object does ten bajillion times more damage than that sharp object for no particular reason other than that you bought it at the end of the game rather than halfway through. It's unrealistic and gamey. ME2's weapon system is far more down-to-earth in that regard: you have different weapons with different capabilities, and those capabilities don't become obsolete two hours later because your enemies happen to have "leveled up."

ME1's weapons-modding, on the other hand, was an interesting concept. Bringing that back sans the ten-versions-of-every-item thing is a very, very good idea. Properly balanced, it'll have all the depth of the original system (or more), but none of the inventory lag. Potentially a perfect example of that old addage, "Less is more."

^ This, pretty much. It's gratifying to see that the devs realised that they overshot the mark with ME2 and are backing up again. Here's hoping they find said mark this time.

it's not backing up, it's adding from a stronger base, which is easier & better.

[Fluffy Pyro]

Well they pretty much removed swappable, real time weapon mods in 2. So there isn't really a base to build upon. It feels like a more well-thought out refinement of the idea from 1. Remove the clutter, focus on mods that make a difference and make it visually obvious when starring at the weapon.

[fchopin]

Terror_K wrote...

^ This, pretty much. It's gratifying to see that the devs realised that they overshot the mark with ME2 and are backing up again. Here's hoping they find said mark this time.

It’s easy to talk, when we see the changes then we will start believing.

[Nathan Redgrave]

fchopin wrote...

It’s easy to talk, when we see the changes then we will start believing.

A little optimism in the meantime wouldn't kill you, though. Did you know that smiles use fewer muscles than frowns?

[Epic777]

fchopin wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

^ This, pretty much. It's gratifying to see that the devs realised that they overshot the mark with ME2 and are backing up again. Here's hoping they find said mark this time.

It’s easy to talk, when we see the changes then we will start believing.

You will see more they changed X now its ruined forever

[fchopin]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

fchopin wrote...

It’s easy to talk, when we see the changes then we will start believing.

A little optimism in the meantime wouldn't kill you, though. Did you know that smiles use fewer muscles than frowns?

I have optimism, what they say looks good so far but i don’t like getting burned more than once for the same experience.
 
Actors practice frowns more than smiles as they use more muscles and it develops more control.

[Gabey5]

this is a shooter

[SNascimento]

Inventory is gone forever, thanks. It doesn't make sense, it doesn't fit Mass Effect.
.
People need to understand that Mass Effect, in combat, is for all intend and purpose a TPS, it's a unique one though, because how differents enemys can be, squadmates and it's powers, etc. Bioware needs to look (and the article in GI made very clear that they do) to the greatests TPS out there to see how it's done, and then, add their magic to it.
.
People also need to understand that combat is far from being the only element in ME, actually, it's not even the most important, Making choices, creating your story and shaping the galaxy around you is.

Modifié par SNascimento, 11 avril 2011 - 02:37 .

[88mphSlayer]

to be honest i was way more of a shooter fan when ME1 came out than i am now, i played halo 3/cod4/cod2/ut3/css/etc. almost on a daily basis back then and still loved multiplayer (nowadays i'm pretty casual in fps)... yet ME1's combat still REALLY appealed to me

i didn't really expect it to be like other shooters, a shooter doesn't have to be exactly like other shooters to appeal to shooter fans it just has to have good aiming controls that's all really

so yes i agree they should bring back inventories and more party upgrade management, shooter fans don't care about loot or simplification, just controls

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 11 avril 2011 - 02:44 .

[javierabegazo]

bald man in a boat wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
I always left Kaidan in Phoenix armor

I always left Kaiden on Virmire. 

Lol, this was awesome to read

[Nathan Redgrave]

I don't think "bringing back inventories" is an adequate summary of what they should do or what they're actually doing, and it may be that we're talking about the same things they are when we say that. They're implementing weapon-mods again, allowing you to switch out different parts. They're combining this with ME2's "limited list of weapons that are actually different from each other" instead of ME1's "six billion guns that all do the same damn thing" system. In theory, it's literally Mass Effect 1's inventory system minus everything that sucked about it.

ME1's inventory was terrible. This did not mean Mass Effect shouldn't have had an inventory system, it simply meant that the inventory they implemented was a pain in the ass and needed some serious fine-tuning. (For starters, if I have three "Tungsten Ammo X" items, why not just list that as "3x Tungstem Ammo X" instead of listing them all individually? If they did this, it would have saved about three hours of menu scrolling time!)

Incidentally, there is an issue of realism to think about. Being able to carry all of your guns, mods, etc. around at all times is a bit silly. ME1 had an inventory limit, but you could stockpile enough firepower to arm about eighty-six Alliance platoons before you actually reached it. Keeping your weapons and mods aboard the Normandy when not in use makes more sense. (The arcade-gamey concession the designers made in being able to change up weaponry at randomly-placed weapon lockers still makes a little more sense than ME1's inventory.)

"Shooter fans don't care about loot or simplification" is only half-true. "Loot" can be a pain in the arse if handled badly. ME1 handled it badly. The simple act of selling unwanted equipment should never be so tedious.

Shooter fans could actually get on board with a heavy helping of RPG elements if they're implemented well and don't waste time on unfun busywork, but ME2 didn't really try to hit that happy balance the way it sounds like ME3 will.

That is all.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 11 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[Jamesnew2]

javierabegazo wrote...

DTKT wrote...

ME3 is not a step towards the traditional RPG. It's the core mechanics of ME2 with more "shooter" elements to make it more appealing to a wider crowd of gamers.

There seem to be no inventory to speak off and to more you hear about it, it sounds like Gear of Wars with a dialog tree.

Hmm...

• Decisions shaping quest and world outcomes?

Check

• Interesting characters that react to eachother and Mission decisions?

Check

• Skill Trees with evolution paths?

Check

• Side quests and interesting rich lore+ updating Codex as you progress through game?

Check

• 3rd person perspective with shooter gameplay + squad that you command?

Check

• Character progression with Paragon and Renegade persuasion?

Check

Hmm... nope.

Sounds like Mass Effect to me.

[*]Owned.

[Jamesnew2]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

fchopin wrote...

It’s easy to talk, when we see the changes then we will start believing.

A little optimism in the meantime wouldn't kill you, though. Did you know that smiles use fewer muscles than frowns?

Not to be a buzz kill or anything.... but thats an urban myth, smiles use more muscles......

But sheesh lighten up, ill buy you a drink and teach you bout the ways of optomism....... while stealing your credit card...

*insert evil laugh here*


I forgot what i was talking about quite a while ago.......

[didymos1120]

Jamesnew2 wrote...

Not to be a buzz kill or anything.... but thats an urban myth, smiles use more muscles......

Actually, the truth is that the true number of muscles involved for either isn't agreed upon.

[Murmillos]

I don't know whom I want to yell out louder in this thread.

The inventory/loot haters, whom always think the only method of doing loot is ME1 way ... (Trust me buddy, ME1 loot was an abomination but losing it was a travesty on a level that only Shakespeare could write about.)

Or the Kaiden haters... I hate you all.. Hhaaaaattteeeeee

johnbonhamatron wrote...

The strange thing was this: I hated the inventory in ME1, loathed it to the very core of my being, but I loved fiddling about in it, to get everyone with the right gear. Now, I may well just be a contrary sod, but there you go. 

That sums up the experience most people had with ME1. God the amount of scrolling thru the unsorted list was mind boggling stupid. And all the weapons, mods, armor.. so much stupid!
But once you did get your squad members into the armor that you wanted them to be in.. nirvana (not the band) like bliss of joy.

Modifié par Murmillos, 11 avril 2011 - 11:09 .

[Pscyon]

Murmillos wrote...

Or the Kaiden haters... I hate you all.. Hhaaaaattteeeeee

I have nothing against Kaidan. I actually quite liked him. He was, however, due to being a Sentinel, utterly useless. Ashley on the other hand, is a cranky bitch that is always droning on and on about how humans and teh allianec!!11! is teh best!!11!1shiftone, but she's actually quite useful in combat. Probably less so if you yourself play Soldier, but who would want to play such a boring class So Kaidan dies, Ashley lives.

[Feanor_II]

I general, and mostly after DA2, I think that Bioware (don't know if it's by self initiative or pushed by EA) is trying to cater a massive audience, and that means to make more superficial and simple to trying to satisfy a huge variety of tastes:

Jack of all trades, master of none

[Tazzmission]