88 réponses à ce sujet

[sleepingbelow]

So, I've been doing a couple playthroughs and watching some others on youtube, and comparing and contrasting Friendship and Rivalry.  Companions seem to, for the most part, grow more as people when you take them down the Rivalry path.  Except for Varric.  Anders seems to recognize Justice's influence towards the end, Fenris confronts his rage, Merrill has somebody to keep her in check when she rushes headlong into demonic danger, Isabela develops a conscience, Sebastian faces up to his responsibilities, etc.

Varric just gets petty and passive aggressive.  What's more, to build him towards Rivalry, you have to be a total turd sandwich.  Nobody really learns anything, they just decide to tolerate each other.  Which contrasts the Friendship path, being one of emotional growth and totally awesome bromance.

I could be convinced otherwise and wanted to hear some dissenting opinions.  For some of the companions I'm still on the fence, but I'm still leaning towards always favoring rivalry.  For instance, with Aveline, usually there is nothing healthy about provoking a fist fight with your friends, but it seems to be the way to confront her on her pride.

Sebastian always sort ends up a little bit of a mess there at the end but I blame Justice/Vengeance.

Plus, Rivalry bonuses are usually better, IMO.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 11 avril 2011 - 04:21 .

[Thiefy]

you missed aveline and the siblings

[sleepingbelow]

Actually, as an addendum, I thought Carver makes an even cooler Grey Warden if you try to push him towards Friendship in Act I, so he's the other exception besides Varric.

I haven't seen what happens to Bethany's dialogue in Acts II or III if you push her towards Rivalry.  Does anybody have that posted?

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 11 avril 2011 - 04:23 .

[Inzhuna]

Fenris confronts his rage and hatred either way.

Maxing out friendship/rivalry with sibling doesn't amount to anything.

[sleepingbelow]

I'm fairly certain Carver's Grey Warden dialogue changes slightly during the qunari revolt if you pushed him towards Friendship. I remember playing that scene and immediately comparing mine to what was on youtube.  He seemed much more zen and friendly, less with the "all business" attitude.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 11 avril 2011 - 04:26 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I have to agree with this. I haven't rivaled Varric, Isabela or Aveline yet, but after doing the rest I definitely enjoyed their rival paths more than the friendship ones. For Merrill and Anders especially, I intend to never do their friendship paths again. It just seems like coddling and placating, it doesn't do them any favors. As for Fenris... I just like seeing him all riled up. ::cough::

I think rival is the best course for Sebastian as well. Aside from his passionate impulsiveness, he really is a good man of strong convictions, I think he would be better suited on the Starkhaven throne than some puppet cousin of his just waiting for someone else like Lady Harimann to pick up his strings.

That's interesting about Varric's rivalry, though. I don't like the idea of making a enemy of him (it doesn't really sound like how the rivalry system is supposed to work...), I've got to try it at least once to see what he says.

[hoorayforicecream]

I actually had a lot more fun with a friendship Isabela than a rivalry. I like that an Isabela rival wants to be a better person, but I don't like having to wade through "Go away, you're such a bore" all game to get there.

[Chiramu]

Rivalry with Anders isn't that good, cause you don't benefit from it. I think increase to magical resistances is a very good Friendly buff .

[noxsachi]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I actually had a lot more fun with a friendship Isabela than a rivalry. I like that an Isabela rival wants to be a better person, but I don't like having to wade through "Go away, you're such a bore" all game to get there.

I haven't done the rival path yet (I just can't be an ass to Isabela...which is odd cause boy do I enjoy rivaling Merrill...) but in her friendmance at least she grows and accepts that she does actually want to help people. Or maybe that's just cause I max out friendship in act 2 and then pick options that give me rival points...but either way...I dunno she grew alot in her friendshipmance to me to say the least.

As for Merrill yeah...I hate her, so rivalry, especially questing with Fenris and Anders for her personal quests is well really abusive torward her thats for sure. Anders rivalry is also very, very awesome.

I much prefer the friend path for Fenris over his rivalry, since it seems to mellow him out more in my opinion. His rivalry he is just constantly on edge.

As for Varric and Aveline haven't seen their rival paths nor do I really want to, since I don't think I ever saw a rivalry gain larger than 5 from either of them in all my playthroughs.

[Ryzaki]

I prefer everyone as rivals except for Varric.

I'd prefer it more once Anders rivalry bugs were fixed. >_>

[sleepingbelow]

Is the Ander's Rivalry bonus bugged (the health regen), or is it something else?

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 11 avril 2011 - 04:50 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Is the Ander's Rivalry bonus bugged (the health regen), or is it something else?

Anders' rivalry ending is bugged. It's actually supposed to be possible to get him to side with the Templars and admit he was wrong.

[noxsachi]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...

Is the Ander's Rivalry bonus bugged (the health regen), or is it something else?

Anders' rivalry ending is bugged. It's actually supposed to be possible to get him to side with the Templars and admit he was wrong.

Is that only his romance? When I've heard that mentioned it was always in that context, and since its bugged we don't know either way but...Still I'd prefer a whole "I want to help you fix what I did wrong but..." then he turns all glowy and full out abomination so you have to kill him, since you know he is possessed by a spirit that had no qualms blowing up a church.

[sleepingbelow]

noxsachi wrote...
I haven't done the rival path yet (I just can't be an ass to Isabela...which is odd cause boy do I enjoy rivaling Merrill...) but in her friendmance at least she grows and accepts that she does actually want to help people. Or maybe that's just cause I max out friendship in act 2 and then pick options that give me rival points...but either way...I dunno she grew alot in her friendshipmance to me to say the least. 

Actually, for one of my playthroughs, I thought Isabela's Rivalry helped *Hawke* grow as a person.  She complains that you're a do-gooding meddler, and you can respond that getting involved in Kirkwall's affairs has led to coin and prestige, and she's like, "Yeah, but at what cost?  You're everybody's errand boy."  And admittedly that is a convention of RPGs, but totally; you end up doing a bunch of fetch quests.  Cool for the player playing the game, but sort of odd as a lifestyle choice for the character.

[Bfler]

sleepingbelow wrote...


Plus, Rivalry bonuses are usually better, IMO.

Not for everyone. For example, in case of a Bloodmage Merrill her friendship bonus is much better than the rivalry one.

[PseudoEthnic]

What's considered "best" for everybody is subjective.

Personally, I have everyone except Anders, Sebastian, and Fenris as friends.

[ThatDancingTurian]

noxsachi wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...

Is the Ander's Rivalry bonus bugged (the health regen), or is it something else?

Anders' rivalry ending is bugged. It's actually supposed to be possible to get him to side with the Templars and admit he was wrong.

Is that only his romance? When I've heard that mentioned it was always in that context, and since its bugged we don't know either way but...Still I'd prefer a whole "I want to help you fix what I did wrong but..." then he turns all glowy and full out abomination so you have to kill him, since you know he is possessed by a spirit that had no qualms blowing up a church.

I could have sworn I'd seen a non-romanced version on youtube.

[Miri1984]

Isabela develops a conscience either way. Anders is a whole 'nother kettle of fish and I prefer friendship for him, but that's because of my own reasons and the argument is too huge to get into. Merrill, I agree, rivaling is better. I enjoy Fenris rivaling more, because he's moar fun that way, but I don't know that it's better for him.

Aveline ... why would you rival her?? And Varric the same, he's too awesome to disagree with. And the siblings don't give you enough time to rival them or friend them properly, so...

[Rheia]

Rivaling Aveline (I did my very first playthrough) can happen just out of the modus operandi conflict. It can start right away at the prologue where you can choose to mercykill her husband herself (arguably sparing her the agony of being the one to drive the dagger) and then just develop further by being unconventional version of a 'hero' and talking back when she tries to patronize you for it.

Granted, I never had her at full rivalry, since I did manage to snatch friendship points here and there, but she was well into it to trigger all her of her story-line and pledge loyalty after appreciating that Hawke could still 'push her past her limits' as she called it.

I tend to prefer rivalry path for quite a few of the companions as well, though there are a couple I prefer to have friendships with. Varrick, obviously, and for some reason I can't bring myself to rival Isabella. Probably because I tend to play characters who 'get their hands dirty' and she ends up their best friend . Anders, most of the time I like friendship better, but it isn't connected to his character growth or lack of thereof, it's just a personal preference.

I can also see how it can be argued that friendship path is "better" for Fenris, but I enjoy rivalry with him too much.

Modifié par Rheia, 11 avril 2011 - 11:40 .

[theangryllama]

Bfler wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...


Plus, Rivalry bonuses are usually better, IMO.

Not for everyone. For example, in case of a Bloodmage Merrill her friendship bonus is much better than the rivalry one.

I dunno.. put her on aggressive with huge con, full primal and elemental and watch her run in there and tank like a champ with that additional 10% damage reduction.

On a different note how the hell do you rival aveline. People keep saying she's to manly but dammit she acts enough like a woman changing her mind every 5 mins about what pisses her off and what doesnt i can't seem to get her one way or the other in any of my playthroughs

[Rheia]

Aveline is a little tricky. She likes honorable actions, pro-law, and will give + friendship for anything anti-slavery (which was why I didn't get her to max). She's obviously also likes when you agree with her.

To get rivalry with her, be careful with your responses. Occasionally, you'll be able to resond to npc in a variety of ways that are slightly different, but to Aveline the difference is quite distinct.

She'll give + friendship for "I'll do it for Kirkwall" type of response, but + rivalry for "Okay, there may be coin in it, anyway". She dislikes when you ask her to keep her job in the office, even if you are nice about it (purple dialog). I mentioned earlier killing Wesley yourself will net you +10 rivalry, which is good enough to start you on your way.
A large chunk of +rivalry will come from her personal quests and gifts, however. If you choose to confront her about why she acts the way she acts instead of walking on eggshells around her issues, you'll be in red in no time

[Apathy1989]

Bfler wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...


Plus, Rivalry bonuses are usually better, IMO.

Not for everyone. For example, in case of a Bloodmage Merrill her friendship bonus is much better than the rivalry one.

If you are anti-blood magic, and therefore ar rivalling merrill, you shouldn't be using her blood magic tree. In that case, 10% damage resistence is very useful.

[Walfan]

I think the rivalry path is better for Merrill and Sebastian only. You "save" Merrill from the blood magic, and convince Sebastian to take his responsibilities as a ruler.
If Anders is a rival, he accepts to give up the fight for the mages if you side with the templars, and accepts death at the end. It depends of the player preferences here.
Varric and Aveline are true friends, and the rival path doesn't have much impact ( except for Aveline who can go back to Ferelden if you reject her ); Isabela's changes are the same, and Fenris begins to forget his rage on the friendship path.

Modifié par Walfan, 11 avril 2011 - 11:43 .

[theangryllama]

Apathy1989 wrote...

Bfler wrote...

sleepingbelow wrote...


Plus, Rivalry bonuses are usually better, IMO.

Not for everyone. For example, in case of a Bloodmage Merrill her friendship bonus is much better than the rivalry one.

If you are anti-blood magic, and therefore ar rivalling merrill, you shouldn't be using her blood magic tree. In that case, 10% damage resistence is very useful.

Eh, thin line there really. Theres a blurry distinction between using ones life force as an additional form of power and the more often seen 'summoning and bargaining with demons, summoning undead and generally screwing with peoples heads' side of blood magic.
I tend to look at merrils and the PC's as the former (providing you don't start taking sacrifice etc). I find the rival for merril more being simply 'bad merril! Evil demon killing mirror is bad!' and seeing myself smack her over the nose with a rolled up newspaper. 

[Rabies]

When I did my playthrough with my "real" Hawke, which is my mage Hawke that intend to be my main cannon for the rest of the series, I did:

Isabella - Friendship (Romance)
Carver - Rivalry
Fenris - Rivalry
Anders - Friendship
Merrill - Friendship
Varric - Friendship (Dude, he's totally my bro. How can I rival him?)
Aveline - Rivalry

My apostate was a bit of a bad ass with a little bit of jester in him. He usually did the right thing, but he wasn't adverse to cutting some shady deals - having always been on the wrong side of the law anyways. You're an illegal mage and there's nothing stopping people from turning you in. You need every edge you can get, to include a little blood magic.