88 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I would've liked it if you had a separate path from friendship and rivalry that lead to that.

And actually I think Aveline's rivalry path can end like that if you make the wrong decisions.

[Zalunaya]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Personally, i'm rather disappointed none of the rivalry routes apparently ends with the companion getting fed up and telling Hawke to just **** off and quit bothering them like, ever.

Aveline does get really pissed off at you. Never yet been able to get her to max rivalry, so I had to watch a video of that scene.

I would like that, though, if more of them threatened to leave or some such. Not depending on rivalry, but perhaps on certain decisions that could push them far enough over the edge that it's worth a lot more hate than a few rivalry points.

Modifié par Zalunaya, 11 avril 2011 - 11:58 .

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

And actually I think Aveline's rivalry path can end like that if you make the wrong decisions.

Ohh cool if that's true. One more reason to like Aveline, then

[highcastle]

Village Idiot wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I'm only a fan of rivalry in the case of Sebastian and Merrill. With Fenris, nothing really seems to change. He never comes out and admits magic isn't to blame for every freakin' thing that goes wrong in his life, which was the main reason I rivaled him. Plus, maxing out the path early involves being a jerk to a guy who's been in slavery his whole life. I can't get behind that.

I'm wondering what do you mean by "being a jerk?  I'm just curious as maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.  My Hawke that rivaled him was a mage who chose mostly the sarcastic/diplomatic options.  She was rarely aggressive and was not sympathetic toward slavers. 

I respectfully disagree also with the assertion that he doesn't change.  On the rivalry path, the question about blaming magic isn't even present and he further states that this hatred "is poison and yet I continue to swallow it."  He muses that perhaps it is time to let go and further admits that there is no one left to blame.  He says "what I have done, I have done to myself."  You don't get this dialogue at ALL on the friendship path.  It's a subtle difference, but it is there.

I've only rivaled him twice, and the first time I failed to max him out, so I don't confess to be an expert on him at all. I know that getting max rivalry out of his main conversations, though, involves telling him to stop whining, to shut up, that you're not really friends, etc. When I took the snarky or middle-of-the-road options, I tended to get friendship or nothing, so it led to me being super aggressive. And while I don't agree with his hatred of mages, I'm a little too compassionate to tell the poor guy he has no friends in the world.

You're right about the "what I have done I've done to myself" line, but I still stand by my assertion that he never gets over his hatred of mages. He's never really comfortable with magic, and nowhere on the rivalry path did I find an option to get him to accept magic. If anything, it comes up more on the friendship path (there's a "You're still blaming magic for this?" line to which Fenris uncomfortably responds in the affirmative, but at least has the grace to sound somewhat abashed).

As far as I can tell, he becomes uncomfortable with his hatred on both the friendship and rivalry paths. In A Bitter Pill he resents the hatred he feels even on the friendship path. I honestly think he comes to terms with it no matter which direction you take him. I just wish there was a way to make him see not all mages are terrible. I know he accepts Hawke as being alright, but he still despises every other mage he meets. That's what I hoped to change by rivaling him, and I didn't seem to find the option. But maybe I missed something. I'd love to have missed something.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
She builds an entire Eluvian from a single shard and the lore she gathered - that speaks of a degree of intellect to me. As for the clan, they don't appear to be privy to the same knowledge that she does. Merrill make s a point to say she was studying the history of the People and they weren't because she was being raised to be Keeper of the Clan as First. As for Anders, he thinks that she knows nothing of spirits and demons because she doesn't adhere to the Andrastian faith and view of them being the Maker's children.

Well, there is Marethari.  She knows at least as much as Merrill does.  Janders has first hand knowledge of demons and spirits, though he does have ulterior motives for maintaining the distinction.

And as someone else pointed out, she didn't really build an eluvian.  She made scrap.

The same Marethari who accept the demon Audacity into her, which could have been the plan all along. And I don't dispute Anders knowledge, but his distinctions between demons and spirits comes from his faith as an Andrastian. Merrill is Dalish.

Also, Morrigan mentioned it took a great deal to power the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Marethari thought Merrill would succeed in building an Eluvian. An incomplete Eluvian is still an Eluvian.

[Addai]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The same Marethari who accept the demon Audacity into her, which could have been the plan all along. And I don't dispute Anders knowledge, but his distinctions between demons and spirits comes from his faith as an Andrastian. Merrill is Dalish.

Anders is not a very good Andrastian.  lol  He's also Justice, and I would say that Justice knows more about spirits than Merrill.

As for Marethari, we're not debating her wisdom, rather that she is at least as knowledgeable as Merrill and likely a good bit moreso.  Who was keeper and who was apprentice?

Also, Morrigan mentioned it took a great deal to power the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Marethari thought Merrill would succeed in building an Eluvian. An incomplete Eluvian is still an Eluvian.

It's a shard of an eluvian and a bunch of other stuff Merrill got at the Kirkwall flea market.  Not terribly impressive.

A Hawke doesn't need to know anything about Dalish history at all to choose to rival her.  It doesn't take a genius to see that Merrill is in over her head.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 avril 2011 - 02:42 .

[TEWR]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you missed aveline and the siblings

LOL Aveline Rivalry. Aveline kicks your ass if you call her a coward, supposedly. Haven't tried it yet.

[Sjofn]

Merrill will always be rivalled by me. Tough love is what that girl needs, and I am more than happy to provide it. I think what helps me not feel bad about it is she comes to realise you're not doing it to be a jerk, you're doing it because you care about her and seriously Merrill blood magic is dumb stop it. I felt like an enabler on the friendship path, and that will work for some of my Hawkes eventually I guess, but I don't really like it.

Anders you also enable on the friendship path, but that bugs me less because he basically has no chance to take it back, while Merrill does. So I'm OK with him feeling like he has at least one friend in the world. On the whole, though, I prefer telling him to fight it, fight it, fight it and hope the bugs in his endgame dialogue get fixed because him suddenly flipping to his friendship dialogue is weird as hell.

The rest of them I prefer as friends so far. I like the sound of the Aveline rivalry path on paper, but I think I'll stick to being BFFs instead.

[Sherbet Lemon]

highcastle wrote...
I've only rivaled him twice, and the first time I failed to max him out, so I don't confess to be an expert on him at all. I know that getting max rivalry out of his main conversations, though, involves telling him to stop whining, to shut up, that you're not really friends, etc. When I took the snarky or middle-of-the-road options, I tended to get friendship or nothing, so it led to me being super aggressive. And while I don't agree with his hatred of mages, I'm a little too compassionate to tell the poor guy he has no friends in the world.

Haha!  I'm no expert either!  I only rivalmanced him once and I got +20 rivalry right off the bat from him because my Hawke was a mage.  I didn't chose the power answer but the one where you question him a little.  I think that certainly aided me in winning rivalray.  I think in that first dialogue, I was pretty nice except my Hawke did say that she never wanted to go back to Ferelden.  She had lost everything there and I imagined she had some displaced hatred for the place.  I'm pretty sure my Hawke never told him that she wasn't his friend or that he should shut up. 

You're right about the "what I have done I've done to myself" line, but I still stand by my assertion that he never gets over his hatred of mages. He's never really comfortable with magic, and nowhere on the rivalry path did I find an option to get him to accept magic. If anything, it comes up more on the friendship path (there's a "You're still blaming magic for this?" line to which Fenris uncomfortably responds in the affirmative, but at least has the grace to sound somewhat abashed).

I would agree with that though I don't think it would be within his capability to completely comfortable with magic.  Too much past trauma, but I do appreciate in the rivalry path his willingness to own some of that of bitterness.  I think it's very important for him do so. 

I have to ask highcastle and I'm sorry to go off topic for just one minute, but is your username from "The Man in the High Castle" by Phllip K. Dick?  I'm sorry I just had to ask! 

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The same Marethari who accept the demon Audacity into her, which could have been the plan all along. And I don't dispute Anders knowledge, but his distinctions between demons and spirits comes from his faith as an Andrastian. Merrill is Dalish.

Anders is not a very good Andrastian.  lol  He's also Justice, and I would say that Justice knows more about spirits than Merrill.

Regardles of how strongly you view Anders' commitment to his Andrastian values, he does make it explicitly clear that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian.

Here's the dialogue:

Anders: Maybe you don't really understand the difference between spirits and demons.
Merrill: Did I ask you?
Anders: Spirits were the first children of the Maker, but He turned his back on them to dote on His mortal creations.
Anders: The ones who resented this became demons, driven to take everything mortals had and gain back the Maker's favor.
Merrill: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world.
Merrill: We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

It's clear from Anders' dialogue that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian in nature. Since Merrill is Dalish, she doesn't share these views.

Addai67 wrote...

As for Marethari, we're not debating her wisdom, rather that she is at least as knowledgeable as Merrill and likely a good bit moreso.  Who was keeper and who was apprentice?

More knowledgeable? Who was the one who let a demon into them, and who was the one who was able to deal with Audacity without becoming an abomination?

So far, I see Merrill using blood magic without incident for several years. Her use of the craft is no different than the Grey Warden mages who Duncan referenced in the Magi Origin.

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Also, Morrigan mentioned it took a great deal to power the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Marethari thought Merrill would succeed in building an Eluvian. An incomplete Eluvian is still an Eluvian.

It's a shard of an eluvian and a bunch of other stuff Merrill got at the Kirkwall flea market.  Not terribly impressive.

A Hawke doesn't need to know anything about Dalish history at all to choose to rival her.  It doesn't take a genius to see that Merrill is in over her head.

A "bunch of other stuff" that Marethari thought would lead to a functional Eluvian. You seem to value her opinion sufficiently enough to think her warning should have been heeded, but you're ignoring how she addressed that Merrill would have succeeded?

Also, how does Hawke know Merrill is in over her head when he's completely ignorant of what she's doing and what it will accomplish? Ignorance =/= knowledge.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 12 avril 2011 - 09:04 .

[ejoslin]

noxsachi wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I'm only a fan of rivalry in the case of Sebastian and Merrill. With Fenris, nothing really seems to change. He never comes out and admits magic isn't to blame for every freakin' thing that goes wrong in his life, which was the main reason I rivaled him. Plus, maxing out the path early involves being a jerk to a guy who's been in slavery his whole life. I can't get behind that.

With Anders, I certainly don't approve of Justice's actions and would love to tell him this...without him acting like I don't care about mages. But I do. I agree with Anders' cause, just not his methods, and sadly the rivalry path doesn't reflect that. So I keep him as my friend and really the betrayal at the end (especially in the romance arc) seems so much sadder on that path anyway.

Isabela grows and learns no matter which path you take. As long as she comes back with the relic, she eventually learns to be a bit less selfish. And during the friendship path you have great banter, whereas she seems to snipe a bit more on the rivalry path.

Aveline and Varric both grow increasingly irritable on the rivalry path. Plus, they're so darn easy to please. It seems like you have to be the scum of Thedas to become rivals with either of them, and I just have a hard time being a jerk in a game or out of it (I know; I'm a weird).

Sebastian and Merrill, on the other hand, can both be rivaled without being jerks to them. Indeed, for these two it seems like the rivalry path is actually a bit kinder.

No no it doesn't. 

I was far more of a jerk to him on the friendship path than anything.

That makes me kinda curious to be honest. In order to get any rivalry gains in the main convo's you do have to be a jerk, tell him to shut up, that you don't care about him, etc. Which was really jarring to me. I mean I know you can just be pro-Mage and run around with him in your party, but it still sucks that the only way to get rivalry from his main convos is to be a jerk, unless you know a secret that I don't.

It's very easy to get Fenris rivalry without being a jerk to him, especially if you're playing a mage.  And, as an aside, not all the red responses are nasty -- some are just direct.  When you're talking about main conversations, do you just mean the ones in his mansion?  Or are you also talking about the ones you have when out and about?

Anyway, I have very easily rivaled him without being mean to him.  Including having Hawke tell him that she cares for him.  It is easier on a mage, where you can get huge rivalry in the first conversation.  Once you're established on the rivalry path, even gifts earn rivalry.  

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's clear from Anders' dialogue that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian in nature. Since Merrill is Dalish, she doesn't share these views.

But as pointed out, Anders unlike Merrill has first-hand experience in the matter in form of Justice that Merrill lacks. So maybe Merrill's belief is simply wrong and she's too stubborn to accept it, like it's common for her? Consider the possibility that Andrastian view can actually be right (and technically this view is far older than the Cult of Andraste, given the Maker is supposedly a deity worshipped long ago and since forgotten)

More knowledgeable? Who was the one who let a demon into them, and who was the one who was able to deal with Audacity without becoming an abomination?

That doesn't say anything decisive about level of knowledge -- people can choose to do things while fully realizing the consequences. In contrast, Merrill's attitude seems to rely mostly on optimism/ignorance with her belief that "she knows what she's doing, nothing bad can happen" when she doesn't have much of actual basis for either.

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 avril 2011 - 03:49 .

[Addai]

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's clear from Anders' dialogue that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian in nature. Since Merrill is Dalish, she doesn't share these views.

Justice, in both Awakening and in DA2, makes a very strong distinction between spirits and demons.  Naturally he has his own reasons to insist that he's "not one of them."  I don't think you would try to argue that he got that idea from the Chantry?

More knowledgeable? Who was the one who let a demon into them, and who was the one who was able to deal with Audacity without becoming an abomination?

That has nothing to do with knowledge.  It's not like Marethari was taken unawares.  She did what she did deliberately.  I'm not debating the wisdom of that decision, but Merrill learned what she knew from Marethari and went first to her to seek further help.  Even in game time, she still thinks Marethari is just withholding information.  Obviously Merrill disagrees with you vis a vis Marethari's grasp on elven lore.

A "bunch of other stuff" that Marethari thought would lead to a functional Eluvian. You seem to value her opinion sufficiently enough to think her warning should have been heeded, but you're ignoring how she addressed that Merrill would have succeeded?

Also, how does Hawke know Merrill is in over her head when he's completely ignorant of what she's doing and what it will accomplish? Ignorance =/= knowledge.

Marethari and the rest of the clan fear that Merrill will bring back the taint.  That's not quite the same as saying they think she'll produce a functional eluvian.

Merrill doesn't exactly project competence or confidence.  You can make a judgment call on her fitness the same way you judge any other person for your sense of their character.

[Giggles_Manically]

You never have to be mean to Fenris to max his rivalry.
My female mage flirted with him all through act 1 and act 2 but maxed his rivalry by the end of act 1.

[TEWR]

Marethari and the rest of the clan fear that Merrill will bring back the taint. That's not quite the same as saying they think she'll produce a functional eluvian.

Marethari said in Act 3 before the demon fight when she was still herself, "The demon knew you would succeed, da'len."

She also said that the demon would've used the Eluvian to escape from his prison, though I highly doubt that as the Eluvian links to a place beyond the Fade, as Morrigan has told us. So Marethari sacrificed herself for no reason.

[kumquats]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

you missed aveline and the siblings

LOL Aveline Rivalry. Aveline kicks your ass if you call her a coward, supposedly. Haven't tried it yet.

That's the only good part.
I thougth it was funny when she started beating up my Hawke.

Anders, Carver, Fenris and Merril for Rival.
Aveline, Isabela, Bethany and Varric for Friendship.
I'm not that sure about Sebastion though....

[berelinde]

I could never make a rival of Varric. I like him too much, and tend not to run overly brutal characters.

Anders: tried the rivalmance thing, but I'm finding that I much prefer friendship. The guy has enough problems as it is. I seem to be incapable of kicking a guy when he's down. If they fixed the ending where he admits that he's wrong, I would gladly try rivalry again.

Fenris: I'm pretty much split. I didn't find the hate sax hot, I found it abusive. On the other hand, he and Isabela seemed to be the only ones that could accept rivalry as anything other than a personal attack.

Isabela: Loved the conclusion of a rivalry relationship (platonic), but I hated the "You're no fun" part my character had to go through to get there. So she's a friend in my "default" game.

Merrill: I hate being mean to her, but I haven't run any characters that can accept blood magic yet, so we usually wind up in a rivalry. I do like how she and Isabela seem to be the only ones capable of admitting that they're wrong. The guys never do.

Aveline: I have no idea how she is in a rivalry relationship. I like her as a friend too much.

[LobselVith8]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's clear from Anders' dialogue that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian in nature. Since Merrill is Dalish, she doesn't share these views.

But as pointed out, Anders unlike Merrill has first-hand experience in the matter in form of Justice that Merrill lacks. So maybe Merrill's belief is simply wrong and she's too stubborn to accept it, like it's common for her? Consider the possibility that Andrastian view can actually be right (and technically this view is far older than the Cult of Andraste, given the Maker is supposedly a deity worshipped long ago and since forgotten)

Anders isn't talking from his knowledge of Justice, he's addressing his Andrastian faith when he makes the distinction between spirits and demons. If you're trying to make a claim that Justice has knowledge about the Maker, you'd be mistaken. The Warden-Commander can directly address him at the statue in front of the Chantry and say "You mean the spirits don't know?" when they discuss religion and the afterlife.

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

More knowledgeable? Who was the one who let a demon into them, and who was the one who was able to deal with Audacity without becoming an abomination?

That doesn't say anything decisive about level of knowledge -- people can choose to do things while fully realizing the consequences. In contrast, Merrill's attitude seems to rely mostly on optimism/ignorance with her belief that "she knows what she's doing, nothing bad can happen" when she doesn't have much of actual basis for either.

How is it ignorance to prepare for the inevitable? You seem to be conflating her willingness to risk with her and have Hawke ready to kill her if things get out of hand with some ignorance of magic that's never actually displayed in the storyline. She prepared for what she's doing, and she knows bad things can happen - which is why she has Hawke ready to kill her.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's clear from Anders' dialogue that the distinction between spirits and demons is Andrastian in nature. Since Merrill is Dalish, she doesn't share these views.

Justice, in both Awakening and in DA2, makes a very strong distinction between spirits and demons.  Naturally he has his own reasons to insist that he's "not one of them."  I don't think you would try to argue that he got that idea from the Chantry?

He's aware of the Andrastian distinction in the same way he knows how to speak the Common Tongue. And he addresses that spirits see the dreams of mortals when he discusses religion with the Commander of the Grey in Amaranthine.

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

More knowledgeable? Who was the one who let a demon into them, and who was the one who was able to deal with Audacity without becoming an abomination?

That has nothing to do with knowledge.  It's not like Marethari was taken unawares.  She did what she did deliberately.  I'm not debating the wisdom of that decision, but Merrill learned what she knew from Marethari and went first to her to seek further help.  Even in game time, she still thinks Marethari is just withholding information.  Obviously Merrill disagrees with you vis a vis Marethari's grasp on elven lore.

Letting the demon Audacity into your body =/= knowledge on elven lore.

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

A "bunch of other stuff" that Marethari thought would lead to a functional Eluvian. You seem to value her opinion sufficiently enough to think her warning should have been heeded, but you're ignoring how she addressed that Merrill would have succeeded?

Also, how does Hawke know Merrill is in over her head when he's completely ignorant of what she's doing and what it will accomplish? Ignorance =/= knowledge.

Marethari and the rest of the clan fear that Merrill will bring back the taint.  That's not quite the same as saying they think she'll produce a functional eluvian.

Merrill doesn't exactly project competence or confidence.  You can make a judgment call on her fitness the same way you judge any other person for your sense of their character.

Marethari admits that she feared Merrill would succeed in restoring the Eluvian, and that's part of the reason why she let Audacity into her body.

[dragonflight288]

LobelVith8


How is it ignorance to prepare for the inevitable? You seem to be conflating her willingness to risk with her and have Hawke ready to kill her if things get out of hand with some ignorance of magic that's never actually displayed in the storyline. She prepared for what she's doing, and she knows bad things can happen - which is why she has Hawke ready to kill her.

I have to agree on this point. I personally like Merrill, and I honestly don't think the game does a very good job explaining WHY the Dalish hate her so much. Pol, in Act 2, was city born and raised, so he has an Andrastian view of blood magic, and is even more terrified of her than he is of the Varterral (regardless of Friendship/Rivalry, staying on topic here) as a result of her blood magic. He knew her for years but let something the Keeper told him terrified of her regardless of what she's done or hasn't.

The other Dalish pretty much can't wait to get rid of her in Act 1. Only Merethari seems to want to keep her around.

And (playing on the friendship path) Merrill told me that when a Keeper becomes possessed, it is the clan's responsibility to slay the abomination. Merethari, when she took in the demon, did not tell her clan what she was doing. She did not tell us what she was doing. She told no one. So when Merethari ends up dead, the clan naturally blame Merrill because she is convenient to hate. Only one person in the clan liked her-and well, that person was now dead.

I also would like to point out that the clan was desperate to leave by that point. Merethari kept the Dalish camped there only for Merrill, who had left by her own choice. Merethari's morality and intelligence is debatable, but I think overall she was a poor keeper.

And Merrill DID prepare for the worst case scenario on the friendship path. Hawke would kill her. I didn't see nearly as much preparation from Merethari.

[TEWR]

I also would like to point out that the clan was desperate to leave by that point. Merethari kept the Dalish camped there only for Merrill, who had left by her own choice. Merethari's morality and intelligence is debatable, but I think overall she was a poor keeper.

They had no halla, so that meant they couldn't really move around their aravels. She wasn't so much a poor keeper as she was a good keeper who acted really stupid because she thought she knew everything, like saying the Demon would use the Eluvian to escape its prison. The Eluvian links to a place beyond the Fade, so that spirit was stuck there until Marethari thought she was helping.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 avril 2011 - 05:05 .

[Selidor]

I prefer Merrill on rivalry because I don't feel entirely comfortable having my Hawke encourage her, given the consequences of her actions. She also comes across as more serious and less childish if you oppose her.

I enjoy the Anders rivalry and friendship. Either way, as long as you complete his personal quests he never really seems to dislike Hawke - on the rivalry path he puts quite a bit of effort into trying to persuade Hawke over to his side, and obviously has a lot of respect for Hawke.

Fenris I only go with rivalry if my Hawke is a mage and romancing him, otherwise I go with friendship. Fenris has some pretty extreme opinions and he's often quite unpleasant to the other companions, but unlike say Merrill or Anders he's not actively doing anything objectionable based on those opinions (and ultimately he places his loyalty to Hawke over his personal feelings, provided you take the time to get to know him) so I feel kind of bad going for rivalry unless Fenris is getting something out of it (i.e. a relationship with Hawke).

Isabela is more fun on the friendship path, and I feel like she matures whether you go with friendship or rivalry.

Aveline I think I prefer on the friendship path, although I do enjoy her beating up Hawke on the rivalry path. With the exception of The Long Road (in which case I prefer the dialogue options that give you rivalry points) I feel like Hawke has to be pretty mean to her to push her towards rivalry, and I feel sort of awkward listening to Aveline get annoyed with Hawke.

I've never done the Varric rivalry - I haven't played a Hawke mean enough to push him in that direction yet, and I enjoy the friendship anyway.

The siblings I've never really made an effort to push them either way, so Carver always tend to end up a rival and Bethany a friend. I'd be interested to try getting Carver as a friend, though.

[Ansatsusha]

I rivalmanced Fenris as a mage after I friendshipmanced him as a mage (it took me longer to max out his rivalry because I was anti-slavery, anti-blood mage, anti-demon and not mean to him), and I think I like Fenris as a friend more. Though the rivalmance wall-shoving was pretty hot, I felt like overall I was abusing Fenris and taking advantage of his attraction to my mage Hawke because he was so angry and frustrated all the time, which isn't healthy, especially with what he's been through. Also, I wanted the irony of him having a mage friend (felt good having him call me the finest mage he knew, heh). Not to mention, he does loosen up a little more about his view on magic if you have a friendship with him, which is apparent when you give him the Sword of Mercy. At least he isn't all serious and hate about magic, even though he still dislikes it. So, what I do is bring him along on quests that are anti-slavery and anti-demon, and extremely supportive in his personal quests. Then, I leave him at home when I'm going to side with mages, the same thing I do with Aveline when I'm accepting quests for shady business and freeing mages. I know they won't approve of what I'm doing, so why would I bring them along?

I'm aiming to rival Anders in my next playthrough because he was really insufferable in Act III, always going on and on about the plight of mages. I've maxed his friendship out 4 times...once as lover (first playthrough because I still remembered loving the Awakening Anders...never doing that again), and the rest because I'm always pro-mage and anti-demon. Still, I'm going to try to rival him because I want to ****** him off. I sided with the Templars as a mage once just to spite him, lol.

As for Merrill...I usually max her friendship out because I can't be mean to her. It's like kicking a puppy! She's just so cute...but I think I'll try to rival her by bringing her on my anti-demon/destroying tome missions for my next playthrough...should be fairly easy to rival her without being mean to her, but I'm not sure if it would be enough to max out her rivalry.

Isabela. She ran off with the relic on my first playthrough because I rarely used her, but I maxed out her friendship by act 2 on my second playthrough and she came back. It was pretty touching and all. When she told my Hawke that she/he was a true friend, and when she said she would never run away again before the final battle...well, I just don't think I can rival her.

As for Aveline...She's annoying sometimes with her extreme lawfulness and her faith in the law, but she's my main tank and her friendship bonus is awesome. Not to mention, my Hawkes would not want an enemy in the City Guard. Especially not the Guard Captain! Better to have the Guard-Captain in their pocket, no?

Finally, Varric. How can anyone rival him?

Modifié par Ansatsusha, 17 avril 2011 - 09:14 .

[DaeJi]

I love to role play, to give my Hawke a personality and choose responses based on that, not what nets me the gameplay bonus I want. My Hawke tends to take on every responsibility, and blames herself for any misfortune that befalls anyone she feels responsible for. She's also a bit of a smart-mouth and may technically be an enabler (she grows out of that though). That said:

Bethany: How can a big sister not love and support their younger sister? especially after losing their brother. Hawke never got the chance to really be there for him, so she is taking every opportunity to be there for Bethany. Hawke hates herself for "letting" Bethany get taken away from the circle, and vows to always do right by mages for her. Friendship.

Aveline: Her and Hawke get along really well. With what happened to get to Kirkwall, Hawke views Aveline as family, another sister. Both are about protecting people, though Hawke doesn't stick to the law like Aveline does. Hawke does try to do the right thing for the right reasons though. Friendship.

Varric: Two souls cut from the same cloth; he's Hawke's best friend and she's his. Friendship.

Merrill: Like mentioned, Hawke is an enabler. While she cares for Merrill, Hawke believes that she is an adult that should be able to make her own decisions. She'd rather let Merrill walk the path she choose, vowing to protect her, than try to steer her life. Hawke also doesn't see blood magic as evil, just as another source for power (demons though are another thing). However, by the end of Merrill's character arc Hawkes does see the damage that she allowed to happen and tries to stop Merrill, it being a case of too little, too late. Hawke feels guilty for Marethari's death, feeling that she died for both her's and Merrill's foolishness. In my mind, Fenris and Anders both suffered some injuries for the things they said to Merrill. Friendship and romance.

Anders: Again with the enabling, though she does try to help Anders stay in control. While the first act she wasn't really interested in the struggle of the mages outside of her own family, by Act 2 Hawke is ready to fight for them (because of Bethany) and is more agreeable with Anders. But as time goes by, and especially after what happened with Merrill, she becomes more afraid that she has been allowing a monster to form in the name of friendship. While she still wants to support Anders, she is more guarded, more weary of Justice (learning as she did how dangerous any being with only one focus can be). She calls him out on his lies, and their relationship rapidly deteriorates. Once the final comes, she can only feel horror for what, she believes, she allows to happen. She lets Anders go so he may spend the rest of his life feeling the guilt of what he has wrought. Friendship.

Isabela: A fun loving, sexy, adventurous women almost dropped right into Hawke's lap? Only the threat of multiple diseases and the fact that Isabela is a better friend than lover kept Hawke off of her. And evidently Merrill factored in. Anyway, her and Hawke got along well and there were no problems between them. And then the truth of the relic came up. While Hawke had always known that Isabela was a bit self serving, for the first time she really saw her for who she was: a me first and only kind of person who would let a small war break out if it meant her skin. Hawke demanded that she return the relic, and was unsure of what would become of their friendship. Then Isabela left and that settled things for Hawke. And then Isabela came back and Hawke realized that for everything she had done, she either became or always was a good person and first and foremost, Hawke's friend. They have been loyal to each other ever since. Friendship.

Fenris: Hawke felt bad for him but could not let his views on magic go unanswered. Thus they clashed many times over the subjects of mages. Hawke was also less afraid to call him out on his BS, something she couldn't do with Merrill and Anders until it was too late. Still, there was respect there, and Hawke didn't let him do things he would regret (again, learning from Merrill). Rivalry

Sebastian: Hawke felt that he was better brother than rule, seeing how reluctant he was to rule, Without solid conviction, she thought, he's better not even trying. So she encouraged his faith in the Maker and to stay with the Chantry. They got along well. Until she spared Anders. Funny, she would later think, about how after believing that he lacked the will to rule, she provided him with it. Friendship.

More friendships than anything. Right now I'm running a new Hawke, and mage this time, who will be harsher, earning more rivalries than friendships.

[thegrimfandango]

I'm intrigued now, any good tips on rivalling Aveline & Sebastian? (I've tried prodding him to return to Starkhaven, but it never seems to be enough, probably because I don't use him enough)
Also rivalling Fenris without being pro-slavery? I alway wind up being his best buddy even though I havn't done an anti-mage run.
I don't think I've even considered rivalling Varric at all, it seems like it would be difficult - he's so easygoing.
I've friended Isabela but not romanced her - planning that for my next run - I'm going to rival as many companions as an angry mage (possibly pro-templar) as I can without being ridiculously inconsistent. What do people prefer - the friendship or rival romance?