Aller au contenu

Photo

The POSSIBLY Ultimate Party Member Tier list! Post yours!


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
59 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages
lol, I am not saying my list is better than anyone else's. :P

S Tier

Merrill.

Merrill is awesome for crowd control and CCC set ups. Not to mention that due to her blood mage access, when you combine that with rock armor, you won't have to worry about foes stun locking her. On nightmare, my Merrill can take a pretty good beating before needing help. Combine this with the fact that this makes the willpower stat unnecessary, you got a mage who can use lots of spells and go throughout most of your game without needing an injury kit. I've also found stone throw to be a godly talent for getting other party members out of a pinch. When set up correctly, definately a party member you want to have with you at all times, even if you are a mage.

The Dog.


When you find your party annihlated and Hawke on his own in the face an enormous mob and in need of health, th dog can prove to be a real life saver. Being able to tank stealth backstabs from multiple assassin commanders at once (even on nightmare) easily earns the champion of Kirkwall's precious canine a place  in the highest tier.


A Tier

Fenris

What's not to love about Fenris? He is an awesome offensive tank, has magic resistance passives which have no equal and has an ability which makes him 30% faster with every kill. When leveled up enough, you'll find yourself wiping out entire mobs shortly when make use of Fenris' talents. In most cases (NOT ALL), even 2H warrior Hawke cannot compete with that. However, unlike Merrill and the dog, he is not as useful regardless of your class. If you're a warrior as well, there's not as much incentive to have him in your party. Obviously, he'd easily be in the S Tier.

Aveline

Awesome defensive tank and definately the go-to-girl you wanna have until you get Fenris that is. Even so, I've found some battles where Aveline was simply a better choice for. For isntance, during the high dragon fight, I was playing on nightmare and my aveline was going toe to toe with the beast while hardly ever needing to be healed. Her specialized stat which increases his defense each time she is hit makes her an even better tank than S&S Hawke (I say tank,because I realize there are a lot of players who don't solely use thier S&S character for tanking purposes).

Varric

Easily the best archer (better archer than even Archer Hawke). With the proper build his potential DPS is insane

B Tier

Anders


Anders is a fine character, but I found myself only bringing him with me at times because I was too lazy to play the game as tactically as possible. Contrary to popular belief, you can go through this entire game without having a dedicated healer. That being said, his ability to revive your party members makes him quite useful. IMO, Vengeance is worthless in most cases (against bosses when no mobs are around? Useful. Otherwise, no) as it just seems to make Anders an Aggro magnet in my experiences. Which isnt' good given that health problems Anders is going to be enduring while this mode is active

Sebastian

There's nothing particulary bad about Sebstian. He's just a 'meh' character to me. I never really needed him. Not to mention that you can't use him until act 2 and can lose him easily at the beginning of the final quest. Why choose him when you can pick Varric? I guess if you're going to have more than one archer in your party sure. Otherwise, meh.


C Tier


Bethany/Carver

Fine characters, but are gone throughout the most of the game, thus are rated low. Not to mention that they don't have any character specific specializations.

Isabela

Although our pirate queen temptress is easy on the eyes, that's the only good thing about her. She may be decent on casual or normal, but when you try to use her on the upper difficulty settings , you'll find her to be getting stunlocked too often or wiped out instantly by enemies. Even if you set up her tactics correctly, her horrible A.I. (going into fights, thinking she is supergirl) is going to get her killed eventually unless you're manually controlling her. And even then, it's going to be a pain in the ass keeping her alive. It isn't all her fault though. For whatever reason, Bioware nerfed the crap out of DW rogues. At very least, Isabela should have been given the option to use a bow. If you're just taking her along in the need of someone who can open locks and disarm traps, I'd recommend Varric or even Sebastian instead.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 11 avril 2011 - 08:42 .


#2
atheelogos

atheelogos
  • Members
  • 4 554 messages
"Bioware nerfed the crap out of DW rogues" Have you played a DW rogue? They're pretty fun and maybe a lil op imo.

#3
godlike13

godlike13
  • Members
  • 1 701 messages

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

For whatever reason, Bioware nerfed the crap out of DW rogues.


Are u serious?

Jeez Louise, is there a class the someone won't claim is nerfed <_<.

#4
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

atheelogos wrote...

"Bioware nerfed the crap out of DW rogues" Have you played a DW rogue? They're pretty fun and maybe a lil op imo.

Yes, my main character in my recent playthrough was a DW/Archer Rogue. I switched out alot depending on the situation. But yeah, major ner****e with the implementation of stunlocking. Combine that with the bugged threat system and you've got your work cut out for you as a rogue. Even so, I'd take Rogue Hawke anyday over Rogue Isabela.

#5
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

godlike13 wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

For whatever reason, Bioware nerfed the crap out of DW rogues.


Are u serious?

Jeez Louise, is there a class the someone won't claim is nerfed <_<.

Very serious. DW rogues are only awesome when you have Carta's left hand or another item which gives stun immunity. Otherwise, expect to get knocked around the field by just about every enemy in the game when something goes wrong with threat mangement.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 11 avril 2011 - 08:33 .


#6
SuicidalBaby

SuicidalBaby
  • Members
  • 2 244 messages
Ultimate Ignorance List

#7
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Ultimate Ignorance List

Ultimate Lame Comeback?:?

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 11 avril 2011 - 06:05 .


#8
godlike13

godlike13
  • Members
  • 1 701 messages
LoL, that's why ur calling them nerfed. I guess rather then playing and bulding them to overcome their disadvantages, its easier to just call a class nerfed. There are many options to handle threat, especially for a rogue, and as for stunlocking. Well there are ways to get around that too.

Rogues aren't "nerfed". Not by a long shot, not with the kind of damage they can dish out. Boring maybe, well at least IMO, but not "nerfed"

Modifié par godlike13, 11 avril 2011 - 06:08 .


#9
SuicidalBaby

SuicidalBaby
  • Members
  • 2 244 messages
Bro, if you were worth a 10th of my time I would show you exactly how short-minded your pathetic, half-assed breakdowns are when compared to actual knowledge of each character's capabilities. Lame is your definition of ultimate, nevermind your grasp on this game.

#10
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

godlike13 wrote...

LoL, that's why ur calling them nerfed. I guess rather then playing and bulding them to overcome their disadvantages, its easier to just call a class nerfed. There are many options to handle threat, especially for a rogue, and as for stunlocking. Well there are ways to get around that too.

Rogues aren't "nerfed". Not by a long shot, not with the kind of damage they can dish out. Boring maybe, well at least IMO, but not "nerfed"

Pretty much. By nerfed, I mean that the class isn't as utilizable as it was in Origins.

I'm not certain why you mention there being ways to get around stunlocking and means of handling threat. I've acknowledged such methods already (the stun lock counter measures not coming until act 3)(I would mention how buggy threat management in this game is, but I'm going to assume they'll fix that up with the patch). This doesn't change the fact the class is nerfed. You didn't need to do any of this in Origins. Hell, you could solo the game as a Rogue easily. There were people saying Rogues were as overpowered as Arcane Warriors. You have to put far more work into keeping a DW Rogue alive in DA2 than you did in Origins.

You could dish out big damage with a rogue in DAO as well. Backstabbing, Assassination and Arrow of Slaying says hi. Moreover, in DAO, you didn't need to rely on the emey being frozen/petrified (although that could come in handy) and this cross class combo function was nonexistant, therefore unnecessary on the highest difficulty setting for speedy progress.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 11 avril 2011 - 06:21 .


#11
Guest_Puddi III_*

Guest_Puddi III_*
  • Guests

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
This doesn't change the fact the class is nerfed. You didn't need to do any of this in Origins. Hell, you could solo the game as a Rogue easily. There were people saying Rogues were as overpowered as Arcane Warriors. You have to put far more work into keeping a DW Rogue alive in DA2 than you did in Origins.

Theoretically, this is a good thing. Nightmare should be... nightmarish. Not a cakewalk solo-ing.

#12
aethernox

aethernox
  • Members
  • 136 messages
The dog isn't very useful. It just gets in your tanks way, in my experience. If you're going S&S, or you're using Aveline, it can be okay, but otherwise it's far too susceptible to friendly fire.

Merrill is good. Anders is amazing. He has several unique abilities that Mage Hawke can't replicate, and he's amazing at provided Tactics-scripted support. The top half of his personal tree, admittedly, is a really weak version of Spirit Healer, and at first glance the bottom looks fairly bad, too. Vengeance's down-sides are a bit too steep, to be honest. It could use some balancing. However, Martyr and his -20% cooldown talent are what make him shine. If his Tactics tell him to use Martyr, he'll use it even if he's not in Vengeance (even when he's in Panacea, even.) This gives him lower cooldowns and better mana regen than any mage Hawke.

Fenris is just a bad Hawke. Of course, Templar/Reaver/Berserker Hawkes are really good, so Fenris is more than okay, but he's worse than Hawke in every way. Saying otherwise is just... wrong.

#13
AreleX

AreleX
  • Members
  • 2 292 messages

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Bro, if you were worth a 10th of my time I would show you exactly how short-minded your pathetic, half-assed breakdowns are when compared to actual knowledge of each character's capabilities. Lame is your definition of ultimate, nevermind your grasp on this game.


I generally frown on forum dickery, but I laughed pretty hard at this.

Also, Rogues are not weak or underpowered or nerfed at all. Before you try and make a case, or counter argument, I have an entire guide, and a bunch of videos that directly prove you're wrong.

Judging the ENTIRE strength of a class based on their soloing ability is a fool's errand, especially when DA2 has CCCs, which should really be called 'THIS IS A PARTY BASED GAME, WITH GAMEPLAY MECHANICS BUILT AROUND PARTY BASED PLAY, USE IT OR FAIL'.

I'll post the same thing I did in the Epic Rogue Hawke thread; you not knowing how to properly play a class does not make it weak. I'm sorry, but this 'SUCH AND SUCH SUCKS IN DA2' garbage is getting out of hand. A large majority of the people making these declarations have no business doing it, since their failures come from not knowing how to play the game.

Modifié par AreleX, 11 avril 2011 - 06:31 .


#14
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Bro, if you were worth a 10th of my time I would show you exactly how short-minded your pathetic, half-assed breakdowns are when compared to actual knowledge of each character's capabilities. Lame is your definition of ultimate, nevermind your grasp on this game.

lol. I'm not worth your time? And just who are you to make your time so special?  

You sound like the comic book guy off the simpsons. Do me a favor and read your comment out oud and tell me how "cool" that sounds to you. No offense dude, but you're talking down to me over a bunch of characters in a ****ing VIDEO GAME. I came in here willing to have fun discussing my opinions on said video game civily and you act as if I took your car and slammed it into a building. Lighten up. Consider taking a shower, getting a tan and moving out the basement while you're at it. Till then, direct your adolescent ramblings elsewhere. Ciao.:D

#15
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

Filament wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
This doesn't change the fact the class is nerfed. You didn't need to do any of this in Origins. Hell, you could solo the game as a Rogue easily. There were people saying Rogues were as overpowered as Arcane Warriors. You have to put far more work into keeping a DW Rogue alive in DA2 than you did in Origins.

Theoretically, this is a good thing. Nightmare should be... nightmarish. Not a cakewalk solo-ing.

From the standpoint that the game is harder, I agree. I just think they should have handled the difficulty differently. I mean ultimately, I have gotten to a point where I'm comfortable in beating this game easily on any difficulty, but I'd prefer they do what games such as Ninja Gaiden do and make the higher difficulties more intense and exicting rather than tedious/boring.

#16
SuicidalBaby

SuicidalBaby
  • Members
  • 2 244 messages
what you did was come here seeking attention. you dont get to choose its form.
what you are saying is your opinion is of the highest value, being the ultimate....
instead of clicking on this "ultimate" thread and reading comprehensive break downs about each character in an enlightening informative manner I am met with this wet papperbag of dog droppings.

You want to relabel your misleading thread title and then Ill educate you. But dont try to insult me after trying to come off as ULTIMATE OPINION MAN.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 11 avril 2011 - 06:44 .


#17
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

aethernox wrote...

The dog isn't very useful. It just gets in your tanks way, in my experience. If you're going S&S, or you're using Aveline, it can be okay, but otherwise it's far too susceptible to friendly fire.

Merrill is good. Anders is amazing. He has several unique abilities that Mage Hawke can't replicate, and he's amazing at provided Tactics-scripted support. The top half of his personal tree, admittedly, is a really weak version of Spirit Healer, and at first glance the bottom looks fairly bad, too. Vengeance's down-sides are a bit too steep, to be honest. It could use some balancing. However, Martyr and his -20% cooldown talent are what make him shine. If his Tactics tell him to use Martyr, he'll use it even if he's not in Vengeance (even when he's in Panacea, even.) This gives him lower cooldowns and better mana regen than any mage Hawke.

Fenris is just a bad Hawke. Of course, Templar/Reaver/Berserker Hawkes are really good, so Fenris is more than okay, but he's worse than Hawke in every way. Saying otherwise is just... wrong.

I disagree. The dog is quite useful from the standpoint that it costs no mana/stamina to use, can come right back even if he does get killed due to FF and bait and tank blows from enemy assassins. All in all, there's nothing to lose and plenty to gain.

I wasn't aware that Martyr could be used without Vengeance. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.

Disagree big time regarding Fenris. I agree that an optimized Hawke is better than an optimized Fenris, but speaking from the experience in my first playthrough, I didn't find the Templar spec to be that useful. Reaver Berserker Hawke though, yes I definately agree.

#18
Cyakura

Cyakura
  • Members
  • 115 messages
DW rouge nerfed??? You are seriously mistaken... I have no idea how u speced your rouge. With mine I taked out Arishok ( sorry if mispelled) solo duel with out any issue.. I do not even have to even kite him for long as with other classes..

My most favorite DW spec is DW- assassin and stealth = I think it might be overpowered.. Even played as DW - Duelist - stealth and same thing.. Amazing dps.. most enemies drop before you have to use even a potion.

Merrill is a good CC, but since I hate her so much, I kinda make potions and have others use them early on to give them better fighting chance.

I admit I have not yet played on nightmare, but half way now tru hard difficulty and my tactics still working very nicely.

Bottom line out of all the classes.. I love DW rouge the best.

#19
Cyakura

Cyakura
  • Members
  • 115 messages
Yes also I agree your title is insulting in a way.

#20
aethernox

aethernox
  • Members
  • 136 messages
It's true that you lose nothing by using him. I just... stopped using him after Act I, because he wasn't good enough. He does something, yes, but it doesn't justify ranking him higher than all of the other companions. Hell, even mentioning him here is pointless. Comparing him to other companions is pointless, since he doesn't take up a party slot. His paragraph should be removed.

Anders seriously kicks ass, even if his character is somewhat frustrating. Martyr lets him cast Heals roughly three times as often as any other character, not to mention Barriers or Hastes.

The thing is, all of Fenris' abilities are worse versions of equivalent Hawke abilities. He gets Fervor, yeah, and Blood Frenzy. But he doesn't get Sacrificial Frenzy. He gets Spirit Pulse, but it's strictly worse than Holy Smite. His unique sustained plus his passive gives 15% less Magic Resistance than Annulment, and it costs him stamina. The crit chance is okay, but it doesn't even come close to making up for his lack of Barrage/Sacrificial Frenzy. The reason that I mentioned the Templar spec is because that is what Fenris is: weakened portions of each Hawke spec. But, by having talents that are so generalized in nature, he lacks the usefulness that a specialized Reaver/Berserker or Reaver/Templar Hawke would have.

#21
godlike13

godlike13
  • Members
  • 1 701 messages
It really seem like ur just throwing around "nerf" as a cop out. U seem to think that because a class has a disadvantage, or because it wasn't like that in Origins, then its "nerfed". Again its not. Rogue actually borders OP if anything. If u find Nightmare tedious/boring, i actually agree BTW, then don't play it. Nightmare is suppose to be just that, a Nightmare. How a class performs on that level isn't even a fair reflection of a classes merit.

Also the game is not built for classes to solo the game, its pointless to even bring it up.

Modifié par godlike13, 11 avril 2011 - 07:07 .


#22
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages

SuicidialBaby wrote...

what you did was come here seeking attention. you dont get to choose its form.

 I came here seeking discussion, assuming that's what you mean. You're correct in regards to the second statement. I don't choose its form. If someone wishes to respond to my topics and behave like a child, I don't have the ability to impede such a wasteful use of time.

what you are saying is your opinion is of the highest value, being the ultimate....

Although "The Ultimate Party Member Tier List" is this topics title, use of terms such as opinion and "in my experience" should be clear indications of me not declaring that my thoughts regarding this game are superior to everyone else's.
I will concede to there having been some degree of miscommunication on my part as my actual intent with this topic was for people to post tier lists of their own. I simply assumed that in posting my list, other people would post theirs and we can talk about experiences civily.

instead of clicking on this "ultimate" thread and reading comprehensive break downs about each character in an enlightening informative manner I am met with this wet papperbag of dog droppings.

lol. Like I said, you take this game way too seriously dude. As I read your comments, I cannot help but feel pity.

You want to relabel your misleading thread title and then Ill educate you. But dont try to insult me after trying to come off as ULTIMATE OPINION MAN.

No, there's no need to educate me. I believe your previous comment alone was more than enough for me to learn all I need to know about someone such as yourself.

However, if you'd like, I can educate you instead. Not about Dragon Age mind you ( I don't doubt that you know all there is to know about it. What's the word? Compensation? :)), but about these other nuances which I believe are proving to be a detriment to not just your social life, but your very well being. To start, we can deal with this superiority complex of yours. It's pretty unwarranted and I'm certain it'll get you laughed at in any sort of social function involving people who lack encyclopedic knowledge of the precise statistics regarding the surviability of a blood mage/force in comparison to a templar focused warrior.

#23
Perfect-Kenshin

Perfect-Kenshin
  • Members
  • 976 messages
Let me clarify on two things since there seems to be a common theme in the posts here (partially being my fault in miscommunicating the purpose of this topic).

1) I wanted people to posts their own tier list. I had thought I had said something about that in the OP, but it appears I haven't.

2) I don't think Rogues (or DW Rogues) suck in this game. I simply don't believe they are as utilizable as they were in Origins. It's kind of like how view Link in Smash Bros Brawl. I still main him, but I do believe he is not as utilizable as he was in Melee. I once again note that my recent playthrough involved me being DW/Archer Rogue hybrid. Although I don't think my tier list is the definitive tier list, it is what I've concluded based on my experiences with this game. I should also note that based on my own experiences, I don't see this game as even being challenging on the highest difficulty.

#24
ezrafetch

ezrafetch
  • Members
  • 535 messages
Only thing is, you make a lot of hefty assumptions when you look at companions. "Rogues are bad," "mages are bad," so on and so forth. Neither class is bad. I hate to say it, but it's one of those L2P things. People cried out "rogues are gimped!" and people cried out "mages are gimped!" and lo! and behold, kind souls have come out and shown that neither are bad.

To create a tier list when Hawke's build is so flexible implies ignorance of the nature of the whole, because there isn't one way to play the game. Even on Nightmare. There are countless 3 Mages + 1 Varric videos out there now, 2 Rogues + 2 Mages, and so on and so forth. I just hit Act 2 and am running 3 Archers, 1 Anders to great effect. I see the intent of separating companions into tiers, but the way you design Hawke, or the way you want to build your party will automatically dictate who is in what tier. Which, overall, means that an "ultimate tier list" is relatively useless because you'd have 100000000+ tier lists to accommodate every Hawke build out there.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 11 avril 2011 - 07:19 .


#25
frustratemyself

frustratemyself
  • Members
  • 1 956 messages
Oh dear. Does someone need to take a nap to sleep off the tantrum? Image IPB