116 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

No. Did you hear is plot reviews/gameplay reviews?

A.) The game would be unplayable, full of meaningless annoying mechanics
B.) The plot would be too predictable
C.) The width of the plot tree would make the game very short
D.) Any new interesting characters would be dropped in the name of lore consistancy
E.) Countless retcons based on what he believed the previous games should be like
F.) And so on...

Modifié par Volus Warlord, 11 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[JRCHOharry]

As long as he makes good coffee and doesn't burn the toast, why the hell not?

[CroGamer002]

JRCHOharry wrote...

As long as he makes good coffee and doesn't burn the toast, why the hell not?

+1

[FlyinElk212]

As a script doctor, sure, I'll sign.

As a gameplay designer, then no. I thought his gameplay mechanics outlined in his videos were a smidge too convoluted, and made the game seem more Sims-esque than it needed to be.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Please no. As a script doctor, EVEN MORE NO than as a designer.

Every plot would be "collect the plot tokens while being explicitly told what they do. Turn in for conclusion. Repeat forever, with no ambiguity or thought required."

[Gabey5]

hell no, complaining on youtube after the fact doesn't make one a a game producer or writer

[Remus Artega]

as a plot corrector who cooperates with the writing team why not...

[spacehamsterZH]

omgmahbrain wrote...

Yes, because if you think smudboy's overall analysis misses the point you're a raving fanboy who thinks ME2 is perfect.

No, but because he can analyze things someone else has created and then be a smug ****** about the faults he's found doesn't mean that he'd make a good writer. That's the point. I can be a smug ****** too, doesn't mean Bioware should hire me.

[Druss99]

What the hell? Since when does whining on youtube make one qualified to make games? I b*tch about football teams all the time, it occassionally makes sense, that doesn't mean I'm qualified to manage one. He also has unreasonable expectations and I don't agree with about 80% of what he is complaining about.

[omgmahbrain]

No, but because he can analyze things someone else has created and then be a smug ****** about the faults he's found doesn't mean that he'd make a good writer. That's the point. I can be a smug ****** too, doesn't mean Bioware should hire me.

Apparently you didn't notice that my post was overflowing with sarcasm.

[TobyHasEyes]

Druss99 wrote...

What the hell? Since when does whining on youtube make one qualified to make games? I b*tch about football teams all the time, it occassionally makes sense, that doesn't mean I'm qualified to manage one. He also has unreasonable expectations and I don't agree with about 80% of what he is complaining about.

 This

[Il Divo]

Autoclave wrote...

Oh, pardon me, I forgot to include butthurt and insulting ppl like you to the list. 

I'd rather be inflammatory than blind. You see, I at least am able to understand that the lines which separate these Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 fans are not as definite as you like to imagine.

This is an internet forum, where people are able to post under anonymous user names with few repercussions. As such, everyone has the ability to troll, flame, threaten to their heart's content, including your Mass Effect 1 fans. I recommend you learn this lesson before posting again.

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 avril 2011 - 01:51 .

[Il Divo]

Remus Artega wrote...

as a plot corrector who cooperates with the writing team why not...

This, times ten. I would not want Smudboy 'writing' my stories, but I think he'd make an excellent editor based on his videos/forum posts.

[nelly21]

I agree with this op. Smudboy's catalogue of critically acclaimed novels certainly grants him the credentials to fix perceived plot holes in storylines written by accomplished authors. Tell me, if not Smudboy, who can fix the ME franchise? WHO????

Modifié par nelly21, 11 avril 2011 - 01:39 .

[BlackwindTheCommander]

I'll say yes, but only if they hire Squee913 on with him.

[TobyHasEyes]

I stopped listening to his video when he thought Wilson being a man of medicine was a good reason to attack the plot point of him being a traitor (because he is a doctor and therefore wants to help people). Literally unbelievable

[Mr. Sniper Rifle]

Il Divo wrote...

Remus Artega wrote...

as a plot corrector who cooperates with the writing team why not...

This, times ten. I would not want Smudboy 'writing' my stories, but I think he'd make an excellent editor based on his videos/forum posts.

I might be misreading what your saying, but editing should be left to professional editors, i.e. people who are paid to look over screenplays, novels and the like as a living. Bioware has their own.

[Il Divo]

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

I might be misreading what your saying, but editing should be left to professional editors, i.e. people who are paid to look over screenplays, novels and the like as a living. Bioware has their own.

Fair enough, but in this case I have to say that (although I prefer ME2) the editors failed their task with regards to the main plot. In some cases, this was small (Shepard's body surviving Alchera). In other cases, they were fairly huge (the Shuttle to nowhere, the VS being unfrozen by seekers). Judging by his analysis, if Smudboy had been editing Mass Effect 2, we wouldn't have some of the larger plotholes.

[Mr. Sniper Rifle]

Il Divo wrote...

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

I might be misreading what your saying, but editing should be left to professional editors, i.e. people who are paid to look over screenplays, novels and the like as a living. Bioware has their own.

Fair enough, but in this case I have to say that (although I prefer ME2) the editors failed their task with regards to the main plot. In some cases, this was small (Shepard's body surviving Alchera). In other cases, they were fairly huge (the Shuttle to nowhere, the VS being unfrozen by seekers). Judging by his analysis, if Smudboy had been editing Mass Effect 2, we wouldn't have some of the larger plotholes.

 I think failed is really too strong a word. Honestly, I don't see the first and third 'plot holes' as  plot holes, but that's more of a personal choice on what does or doesn't work in a game's storyline: while I won't say ME 2 writing is perfect, and ocasionally gets a bit hoky as mainstream Sci-fi in wont to do, I personally feel the writing was very good throughout. 

But really, as I already said, smudboy is nether a professional editor or writer. Sure he might post lengthy reviews about the game on Youtube, but that's not any indication of actual skill; in that same light, I might have two hands, two legs, and lungs, but I am not a professional football player.

Modifié par Mr. Sniper Rifle, 11 avril 2011 - 02:06 .

[Almostfaceman]

Il Divo wrote...

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

I might be misreading what your saying, but editing should be left to professional editors, i.e. people who are paid to look over screenplays, novels and the like as a living. Bioware has their own.

Fair enough, but in this case I have to say that (although I prefer ME2) the editors failed their task with regards to the main plot. In some cases, this was small (Shepard's body surviving Alchera). In other cases, they were fairly huge (the Shuttle to nowhere, the VS being unfrozen by seekers). Judging by his analysis, if Smudboy had been editing Mass Effect 2, we wouldn't have some of the larger plotholes.

Well if we're going to travel down this road of hilarious assumptions about some dude we hardly know anything about judged solely on his internet persona - I'd say it's safe to assume he'd last maybe 5 days working with a team of people like Bioware before he got his ass thrown out the door for not being able to consider anyone's opinion other than his own.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Honestly, Smudboy is awful. Just... just awful. I've worked in the game design industry, and having a guy like that on your team is just the most unpleasant thing that can possibly happen. I've heard so many horror stories of devs who act like that, cutting down content, making people completely redo perfectly good content, when a minor tweak would work just as well. Listening to his videos gives me nightmares. If I were working at a studio where he was hired, I'd start my job search right away.

No, what's needed instead is just someone to fulfill the role of "Narrative Designer." It's a fairly new position in the game industry, but one that is becoming increasingly seen as necessary. (I checked to make sure, there isn't one credited on ME2.)

What the Narrative Designer does is simple - he is the liaison between writing and design. He maintains a story bible, and holds meetings between different teams if he finds an inconsistency. He balances the needs of the writers with the needs of the implementers and level designers. He's the story's caretaker, essentially. It's a responsibility that all the writers are meant to be sharing, but its often done best when you assign it to a single person.

That person, however, needs to be reasonable, coherent, and willing to compromise. They should be MADE of compromises and goodwill, because they will have to make demands of both writers and design, and if they ****** either one of those off, the product will suffer. Collaboration will suffer.

So yes to more editing. Yes to them hiring a Narrative Designer. Smudboy? No. By the seven hells no.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 11 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[Mister Ford]

Il Divo wrote...

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

I might be misreading what your saying, but editing should be left to professional editors, i.e. people who are paid to look over screenplays, novels and the like as a living. Bioware has their own.

Fair enough, but in this case I have to say that (although I prefer ME2) the editors failed their task with regards to the main plot. In some cases, this was small (Shepard's body surviving Alchera). In other cases, they were fairly huge (the Shuttle to nowhere, the VS being unfrozen by seekers). Judging by his analysis, if Smudboy had been editing Mass Effect 2, we wouldn't have some of the larger plotholes.

You're assuming the writers/editors did not notice any of these issues and thought everything made perfect sense and fit together seamlessly.

Does anyone really think there wasn't one person involved in the process of making ME2 that didn't ask "how did they bring Shepard back", or "how did Ash/Kaiden get unfrozen"?

I think it's much more likely that these things were noticed, but for one reason or another, further explanation either was not possible, or took away from something else they wanted to do, and they felt that some minor inconsistencies were acceptable, given the overall picture.

If we are really going to suggest that none of things were noticed or discussed by the dev team, then we're basically suggesting that they suck at their jobs.  And given the quality of the finished product, I have a hard time believing that.

And to answer the OP, I don't want smudboy anywhere near ME.  His analysis did not require any sort of special insight, it only required the ability to obsess over minor problems, and the ability to expect  video games to have the narrative of an epic novel.  And his "fixes" would make a terrible game, imo.

Modifié par Mister Ford, 11 avril 2011 - 02:16 .