67 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamer Ftw]

This whole darkspawn thing is his fault.
Everyone should be punished for the sins of a few?
good plan you daft jerkface.
I think he was just jealous of The Old God's power.

[BigCrash]

I'm starting to believe there is no maker at all. The darkspawn is simply a degenerate race that kills and rapes and infects everyone and by chance when it infects a dragon it leads them. as far as i know they don't infect high dragons because they don't sleep underground so maybe the old gods are just dragons in hibernation?

however this wouldn't explain how the archdemon essence travels to other darkspawn so... maybe only the old gods exist? either that or the maker is a real perv. i mean, as the creator of all things andraste would in a way be his daughter right? the maker: a jealous pedophile....

[phantomdragoness]

I think the Maker is real - I was kinda convinced with the Urn of Sacred Ashes.

But yes, I agree: the Maker is a jerk. Sebastian was saying how their world is not worthy of being saved yet, and I'm thinking: "Yeah, like THAT will ever happen. Look at what's going on now!" *Chantry in flames*

It's every man for himself in Thedas. And if Sandal's prophecy does indeed speak of the Maker, then he is returning because he is PISSED. If this is true, at least he's stepping in...unlike Elthina. The ****. Or maybe we'll all be exterminated.

Yayyyyy...

[Heidenreich]

He' Fan'Harel.


*suspenseful music*

That's what kind of jerk he is.

[Rabies]

I don't believe the Maker really exists. I think Andraste was just a supremely powerful mage, and that the darkspawn were created by the Imperium in a botched magical experiment to create life from nothing. That lyrium idol down in that "thaig" in the Deep Roads looked suspiciously like the Architect.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Heidenreich wrote...

He' Fan'Harel.


*suspenseful music*

That's what kind of jerk he is.

Well that'd be awesome I think.

[Bigdoser]

If you take oghren with you during the ashes quest he says the whole room where the ashes is held is full of lyrium including the ashes. btw I don't believe the maker exists.

[GenericPlayer2]

The ashes didn't convince me that the maker is real. If you take Oghren with you on that quest he talks about the unusually strong veins of lyrium running through those caverns.

What convinced me that the Maker is real is Leliana saying that he resurrected her if the Warden kills her at the ashes site.

[Emperor Iaius I]

If Andraste were a powerful mage, there's no reason she would have been enslaved. She could have gained advancement in the Imperium. No, she's definitely his trollop.

The Maker is real and he is the scourge of mankin.

[Rinji the Bearded]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The ashes didn't convince me that the maker is real. If you take Oghren with you on that quest he talks about the unusually strong veins of lyrium running through those caverns.

What convinced me that the Maker is real is Leliana saying that he resurrected her if the Warden kills her at the ashes site.

I am fairly certain that there is a god out there who might call himself the Maker.

I'm just not certain if he's not just trololololing everyone in Thedas.

Also, rescurrection has a lot less meaning to me now since Flemeth is able to reincarnate herself everywhere.  Leliana's revival might have been divine intervention, but it needn't be the power of a benevolent god.

[GenericPlayer2]

Flemeth reincarnating herself everywhere is not the same. From the start she seemed to be an extremely powerful being posing as an old hag. If Leliana was reincarnated in the same way I wouldn't be pleased, since there is no hint that she runs in the same circles as beings capable of such things. Unless you really believe her when she says the Maker speaks to her and told her to hook up with the Warden.

[Heidenreich]

RinjiRenee wrote...

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The ashes didn't convince me that the maker is real. If you take Oghren with you on that quest he talks about the unusually strong veins of lyrium running through those caverns.

What convinced me that the Maker is real is Leliana saying that he resurrected her if the Warden kills her at the ashes site.

I am fairly certain that there is a god out there who might call himself the Maker.

I'm just not certain if he's not just trololololing everyone in Thedas.

Also, rescurrection has a lot less meaning to me now since Flemeth is able to reincarnate herself everywhere.  Leliana's revival might have been divine intervention, but it needn't be the power of a benevolent god.

Oh, he's deffinately trolling Thedas. I'm 100% sure he's sitting around laughing as templars and mages kill each other. *nod*

[FaeQueenCory]

You see, the thing about monotheism is that everything comes from the god.
EVERYTHING.

What the op is posing is another "problem of evil".
And a real simple solution, which makes most monotheists uncomfortable, is that the godhead is NOT solely omnibenevolent (all loving, all good, etc). And why should it be? If everything stems from the creative force of this one cosmic entity, why should it need to be all nice and rosy?
As a scientist, I know that compassion and sentiment for my experimental subjects is not needed. Nor does it ever happen from me, though I know how some people get attached to their systems... But at the end of the day, your experiment is just a culture in a dish... and I'm pretty sure that the Maker views His creation as the same.

(Though to be fair, op, the Maker didn't just unleash darkspawn and Blights upon TheDAS... those Magisters broke into His house and broke it. I'd be pretty pissed too if some punks broke into my house and trashed the place.)

Modifié par FaeQueenCory, 11 avril 2011 - 04:12 .

[SirLysander]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

He' Fan'Harel.


*suspenseful music*

That's what kind of jerk he is.

Well that'd be awesome I think.

We've heard FenHarel's tale twice now - once in Origins and once in DA2; when you combine that story with te stories of the Maker relayed in Origins, it's entirely plausible that the Maker and Fen'Harel are one and the same.

"the Creators" sealed away in the heavens -- the Maker's "first children" sealed away in the Fade

The 'evil deities' (can't remember their collective name at the moment) sealed underground - the same place that the Maker sealed the "Old Gods".

The big sticking point is the Stone (The Stone lives beneath Orlais); what does that mean - even when taken literally?

[Emperor Iaius I]

The Forgotten Ones. The interesting thing is that the Enigma of Kirkwall also refers to the Forgotten Ones: and they're three demons of immense power, not the Old Gods.

[Nerdage]

SirLysander wrote...

The big sticking point is the Stone (The Stone lives beneath Orlais); what does that mean - even when taken literally?

That from the nexus golem? Could mean Kal Sharok? Could make sense considering a golem said it, and the wiki says Kal Sharok's "between Orlais and the Anderfels".

Nothing to do with the Maker, or indeed the thread, just saying.

[shumworld]

In a fantasy world, I'm sure the Maker can exist.

[lockdown51]

The problem I think the OP is having with the Maker is that most people assume in a religion with only one god, that god must be by default all loving. However, then humanity does something that makes said god stop interacting with humanity, which explains away why there is never any evidence of divine intervention. And religion feeds off the faith of people looking for hope, but that is for another thread.

It has been documented in Codex, that the Maker has turned his back on people twice. Once for the invasion of the Golden (now Black) City, and when they burn Andraste. This makes be think that if there is a Maker, his is not all loving and forgiving. If anything it makes him sound almost Q like, in that he is seemingly all powerful but really doesn't care about people. Or he just got bored and wandered off someplace else.

SirLysander has a good point. It could be that Fen'Heral is the only god standing after the war ended. And he seems to be more of a Loki kinda god instead of one more caring.

[Gamer Ftw]

I think when Sandal says HE will come he means the OGB not the maker but maybe I'm just hoping.

[lockdown51]

Maybe Sandal was making a reference to the next protagonist in DA3.

[Master Shiori]

Maker comes across as a pretty sadistic bastard when you think about it.

Has Andraste start a war in his name then leaves her to be roasted by the magisters. Turns the magisters into darkspawn and have them threaten the whole world time and again.

Doesn't really sound like a happy, benevolent deity to me..

[Camenae]

I thought it was intended for the existence of the Maker in Thedas to be an ambiguous issue.

Therefore, I was really surprised the "sacred ashes" actually worked to cure Eamon, because I thought it was superstitious nonsense. If lots and lots of lyrium would do it, then wouldn't they have tried that before now. Teagan says they had already and were continuing to try "magical healing" to no avail.

[The Cannibal Factory]

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."
- Gene Roddenberry

[DoNotIngest]

He's a really big jerk. That's what kind of jerk he is.

[Kalthorine]

DoNotIngest wrote...

He's a really big jerk. That's what kind of jerk he is.

Actually, if you want to be precise he is a really big adulterous jerk - don't forget he had an affair with a married woman (Andraste) and tried to persuade her to leave her husband and go away with him, just because he fancied her singing voice!