240 réponses à ce sujet

[GammaRayJim]

 While playing the game and reading the forums I was reminded of this industry blunder that occurred 25 years ago. Coca-Cola sales had been dropping for the previous 15years, so in an effort to revitalize the industry and capture market share back from it's competitors Coke decide to change it's formula. A bold move except that it backfired because it put off it's core customers who wanted nothing but the original Coke so a few months later the original recipie was reintroduced as Coca-Cola classic. The attached link is the company spin on what happened but I lived through it and remember it well, the uproar was overwhelming, very similiar to what is happening here. I guess the best message would be "don't mess with a good thing".

http://www.thecoca-c...re_newcoke.html

[Cutlass Jack]

Because cola and videogame development have everything in common. I'm pretty sure there weren't decades of earlier Dragon Age games that stuck to exactly the same formula.

Just putting that out there.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Your comparison fails, because DAO wasn't that great. While fun, it was only a rehash.

[Frek]

There's a big difference between the word "similiar" and "exactly". The OP said the new coke thing is "similiar" to the DA2 and DAO situation. He didn't say it's exactly the same thing. It is similiar? Yes, in both cases you have a company changing their product drastically and customers upset about it. Some of you fail miserably at reading comprehension, either that or you just like being disagreeable and picky for the fun of it.

Modifié par Frek, 11 avril 2011 - 02:22 .

[Dubya75]

GammaRayJim wrote...

 While playing the game and reading the forums I was reminded of this industry blunder that occurred 25 years ago. Coca-Cola sales had been dropping for the previous 15years, so in an effort to revitalize the industry and capture market share back from it's competitors Coke decide to change it's formula. A bold move except that it backfired because it put off it's core customers who wanted nothing but the original Coke so a few months later the original recipie was reintroduced as Coca-Cola classic. The attached link is the company spin on what happened but I lived through it and remember it well, the uproar was overwhelming, very similiar to what is happening here. I guess the best message would be "don't mess with a good thing".

Yeah, except it's really not the same at all! Dragon Age is heading in the right direction whether you like it or not. Sales are not down, in fact their up compared to the first two weeks of Origins sales.

[Ronin2006]

Dubya75 wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

 While playing the game and reading the forums I was reminded of this industry blunder that occurred 25 years ago. Coca-Cola sales had been dropping for the previous 15years, so in an effort to revitalize the industry and capture market share back from it's competitors Coke decide to change it's formula. A bold move except that it backfired because it put off it's core customers who wanted nothing but the original Coke so a few months later the original recipie was reintroduced as Coca-Cola classic. The attached link is the company spin on what happened but I lived through it and remember it well, the uproar was overwhelming, very similiar to what is happening here. I guess the best message would be "don't mess with a good thing".

Yeah, except it's really not the same at all! Dragon Age is heading in the right direction whether you like it or not. Sales are not down, in fact their up compared to the first two weeks of Origins sales.

Isn't there a thread that says that the overall trend is that the sales are declining faster in DA 2 than they did for DA O?

The big ME 2 giveaway suggests that perhaps the direction that DA is going in is not the right one.  I don't think we can really judge the sales of DA 2 until well into this year after the initial buy-in period wears off.

Anyway, I could care less how this game sells.  I'm just going to do what many others do, and not buy the next one unless I perceive it to be a good game.  DA 2 was not in my opinion a good game, in fact, in many respects it was downright awful and I only bought it on the back of DA O.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 11 avril 2011 - 02:33 .

[Ieolus]

Wow, you DA2 defenders need to stfu and let it rest. Consensus is against you guys so stop already; we know you love the New Coke better than the Old Coke (love the parallel) but it failed.

Btw, I think Coca Cola made the New Coke/Coke classic change on purpose to secretly introduce high fructose corn syrup into the cola instead of sugar because it is cheaper. OP, how does that idea work into your theory?

Modifié par Ieolus, 11 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[GammaRayJim]

Thanks Frek and the rest for your input. What the article doesn't speak of and yet what was big at the time was that Coke changed the formula to taste more like Pespi who were the ones gaining in market shares. So in order to snag Pepsi consumers they alienated the very people who loved their original product. I can live with changes hell I've seen a lot in my life, and how this finally pans out as a marketing masterpiece or another blunder only time will tell. I think that potentially they may gain some new customers but is it worth the risk of loosing some of their most devoted fans.

[Saphara]

Heh, according to my biology teacher, the new formula according to scientific blind taste testing was actually better than the old Coke, but since it just suddenly replaced the old Coke and no one likes being told what they should and shouldnt like, it failed.

[GammaRayJim]

Hey Ieolus, for Coke what eventually happened was a revitalization of it's product due to all the attention it got and a heightened sense of brand loyalty by the consumers. Is high fructose corn syrup an analogy for something...lol. It very well may be the reason behind it all.

[Haristo]

I prefer to compare DA2 to Zelda 2 : Link's Adventure. this game is also hated by the purist of it's licence. I think both (DA2 and Zelda 2) are kind of cool, but I'm pretty sure DA3 will be much more similar to Origins. this kind of stuff happens all time.

[Ieolus]

So they destroyed the Dragon Age franchise only to save it?

[Dubya75]

Ieolus wrote...

Wow, you DA2 defenders need to stfu and let it rest. Consensus is against you guys so stop already; we know you love the New Coke better than the Old Coke (love the parallel) but it failed.

Btw, I think Coca Cola made the New Coke/Coke classic change on purpose to secretly introduce high fructose corn syrup into the cola instead of sugar because it is cheaper. OP, how does that idea work into your theory?

What? People are no longer allowed to like DA2?

[Saphara]

Dubya75 wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

Wow, you DA2 defenders need to stfu and let it rest. Consensus is against you guys so stop already; we know you love the New Coke better than the Old Coke (love the parallel) but it failed.

Btw, I think Coca Cola made the New Coke/Coke classic change on purpose to secretly introduce high fructose corn syrup into the cola instead of sugar because it is cheaper. OP, how does that idea work into your theory?

What? People are no longer allowed to like DA2?

I thought the consenses was that while it is a good game on its own, it has flaws and is inferior to DAO. It may be a failure in comparison, but it's not an out and out failure as a game.

Or maybe that's bringing too much logic into an illogical argument.

[Ieolus]

Dubya75 wrote...

What? People are no longer allowed to like DA2?

Those are your words, not mine.  Mine is stfu and let other people talk w/o you guys jumping down their throats.  The New Coke/DA2 parallel does not need your reflexive defensive input of DA2.

[Ronin2006]

GammaRayJim wrote...

Thanks Frek and the rest for your input. What the article doesn't speak of and yet what was big at the time was that Coke changed the formula to taste more like Pespi who were the ones gaining in market shares. So in order to snag Pepsi consumers they alienated the very people who loved their original product. I can live with changes hell I've seen a lot in my life, and how this finally pans out as a marketing masterpiece or another blunder only time will tell. I think that potentially they may gain some new customers but is it worth the risk of loosing some of their most devoted fans.

Well, after the disaster that was New Coke they brought back Old Coke and sales significantly improved as people flocked back to the old flavour.  Maybe Bioware should take note of this.

[KBomb]

Ieolus wrote...

Wow, you DA2 defenders need to stfu and let it rest. Consensus is against you guys so stop already; we know you love the New Coke better than the Old Coke (love the parallel) but it failed.

Btw, I think Coca Cola made the New Coke/Coke classic change on purpose to secretly introduce high fructose corn syrup into the cola instead of sugar because it is cheaper. OP, how does that idea work into your theory?

Odd, I was just thinking the same thing about the people who constantly make thread after thread putting the game down. Small world, innit?

[Saphara]

Ieolus wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

What? People are no longer allowed to like DA2?

Those are your words, not mine.  Mine is stfu and let other people talk w/o you guys jumping down their throats.  The New Coke/DA2 parallel does not need your reflexive defensive input of DA2.

except, a good disscussion cant happen without input from both sides of the fence. Cant really tell others to stfu then expect any kind of rational discussion of only your opinion

[Dubya75]

Saphara wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

What? People are no longer allowed to like DA2?

Those are your words, not mine.  Mine is stfu and let other people talk w/o you guys jumping down their throats.  The New Coke/DA2 parallel does not need your reflexive defensive input of DA2.

except, a good disscussion cant happen without input from both sides of the fence. Cant really tell others to stfu then expect any kind of rational discussion of only your opinion

Some people can't stand being disagreed with. Better to just let them be...

[Haristo]

Goddamn guys, Dragon Age II simply has a ''2'' syndrom, the game is too different from its original.

Zelda 2, a lot of peoples hates it because it doesn't feel like the original Zelda nor like its sequel ''ALTTP''.

Castlevania 2,

Super Mario Bros 2 ! the ****in' ending is... OMFGWTF !

[Zem_]

The problem with the comparison is that unlike Dragon Age, Coca-Cola was something like 60% market-share at its peak.  And even down to around 25% when they changed the formula that's still huge for any single product.  At that point, merely changing it at it like changing a time-honored tradition.  Hey everybody... we think Baseball would be more fun with FIVE bases to run and a "pitch clock" forcing the pitcher to stop scratching himself and just throw the damned ball!

And you know... it might!  But that's beside the point.

As for the thread, whether or not this is Bioware's New Coke rather depends on how successful it is.  I keep saying this every time someone points at the sales numbers and compares them to Origins and it seems I keep getting ignored.   DA2 cost less to develop than Origins.  It must have.  It took a fraction of the time and contains far less actual content.   The high degree of re-use says, "We did this on the cheap, guys!"  Which means they don't have to sell nearly as well to make more money.  If you want to worry about something, worry that this is the new "how to make money on RPGs" model for the future.  Worry that it ISN'T New Coke.  Because if it's New Coke, then the situation will fix itself in the same way.

[Ronin2006]

KBomb wrote...

Ieolus wrote...

Wow, you DA2 defenders need to stfu and let it rest. Consensus is against you guys so stop already; we know you love the New Coke better than the Old Coke (love the parallel) but it failed.

Btw, I think Coca Cola made the New Coke/Coke classic change on purpose to secretly introduce high fructose corn syrup into the cola instead of sugar because it is cheaper. OP, how does that idea work into your theory?

Odd, I was just thinking the same thing about the people who constantly make thread after thread putting the game down. Small world, innit?

I think the issue is that some people (on both sides of the fence) will argue absolutely anything to try and defend/attack the game regardless of whether they have a strong argument or not.

It's as though some people can't say that there is a general consensus that the game is a slight disappointment without someone starting an argument about it being wonderful.  Whether you like the game or not, the fact is more or less, that a large group of people strongly disliked this game.  While a lot do like it, the mixed reception is almost certainly a disappointment for Bioware and the fanbase, so stating that the game has been a disappointment is a fair assessment.

If someone disagrees with this, they should state why and do so with a logical point.  They should go beyond just saying that the game is great and the other is wrong.  (which is what has happened a bit here, and is something people on both sides of the fence are guilty of doing)

[Ieolus]

Saphara wrote...

except, a good disscussion cant happen without input from both sides of the fence. Cant really tell others to stfu then expect any kind of rational discussion of only your opinion

Those 3 quotes below are from the same reflexive defenders of the game I see on EVERY thread.  They don't want discussion or anyone to say a bad word about their new favorite game.

I like the OP, I find it interesting, but these guys are just trolls, nothing more.

Your comparison fails, because DAO wasn't that great. While fun, it was only a rehash.

Because cola and videogame development have everything in common.

Yeah, except it's really not the same at all! Dragon Age is heading in the right direction whether you like it or not. Sales are not down, in fact their up compared to the first two weeks of Origins sales.

[Ieolus]

Agreed.  Baldur's Gate 2 also has that "2" syndrome... err, wait.

Haristo wrote...

Goddamn guys, Dragon Age II simply has a ''2'' syndrom, the game is too different from its original.

Zelda 2, a lot of peoples hates it because it doesn't feel like the original Zelda nor like its sequel ''ALTTP''.

Castlevania 2,

Super Mario Bros 2 ! the ****in' ending is... OMFGWTF !

[Saphara]

Ieolus wrote...

Saphara wrote...

except, a good disscussion cant happen without input from both sides of the fence. Cant really tell others to stfu then expect any kind of rational discussion of only your opinion

Those 3 quotes below are from the same reflexive defenders of the game I see on EVERY thread.  They don't want discussion or anyone to say a bad word about their new favorite game.

I like the OP, I find it interesting, but these guys are just trolls, nothing more.

Your comparison fails, because DAO wasn't that great. While fun, it was only a rehash.

Because cola and videogame development have everything in common.

Yeah, except it's really not the same at all! Dragon Age is heading in the right direction whether you like it or not. Sales are not down, in fact their up compared to the first two weeks of Origins sales.

Ok, the first quote is in no blasted way trolling. I think people use this word too much to refer to opinions they dont like, which happened in this case.

Also, sarcasm is not trolling. BEGEEBUS PEOPLE!!! *massive facepalm of Jean Luc Picard proportions*

3rd is...wonky...and first week shouldnt ever count as it's based off preorders which are based off of how good DAO was. Which, by the way, was not the godsend of all RPGS. It had it's own flaws.