240 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

Ieolus wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

I assume you point is that DA2 is the better product that people reject because it's not the exact same thing?

Because New Coke did better in blind taste tests done by the Coca-Cola Company and outside researchers. Research fail.

But of course that is why there is no New Coke anymore, and Old Coke lives on in Coca Cola classic.  What was your point again?

Consider I made no personal value judgement between DAO vs DA2 just pointed out that your analogy was very flawed and yeah it's obvious that you prefer DAO vs DA2, that's fine.  Althought if it must be know I rated DA2 .5 points higher on a 10 point scale in another thread with the note that seeings as I've only played DA2 for about a month versus 2 years with DAO the rating could change.

People cling to nostalgia.  They look on the past with rose-tinted glasses.  You know how the 50's was just full of nuclear families and apple pie?  So not true.  That was my point.   DAO was a good game but it has a lot of flaws.  DA2 is a good game but it has a lot of flaws.  I happen to be able to handle DA2's flaws better than DAO's.  But I reject the idea of going backwards.  Learn from the past sure. Try to make an exact copy, no thanks even if it was what many people were expecting.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 11 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[Amioran]

Ieolus wrote...
Dragon Age 2 is to New Coke as Origins is to Old Coke.  Discuss.

And I already told you that you comparision is completely wrong in the context, a thing you obviously sidestepped (who knows why?).

There's nothing to discuss. Your comparision is failed from the start.

[MrTijger]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

One thing you forgot to put, is that DA2 is selling LESS than DAO in weeks 3 and 4 and has TOTAL LESS SALES, given the fact that it had about 400k pre-orders on the back of what DAO did as a game, id say its pretty pathetic, good job spinning an argument in your favour tho,,,

Oh, you have access to official sales figures and not guesstimates which dont count all outlets? Can you share that information then, please?

[Ronin2006]

Amioran wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...
Pfft, your post is flatout wrong because it's grounded on a false assumption about me, my intentions, and why I'm here and what I'm doing, and ultimately everything I've ever posted on this forum.  I don't even know where to begin on a post as nonsensical, illogical and unfounded as yours, but let's try shall we?

Since I assume english is your first language you should know that the subject "you" can be used as both a general and personal term, isn't it? Since if you had used a bit your brain it was obvious that the former was the case your "rant" would have not had much meaning after, isn't it?

As for your "points", I already replied to them to other users. You would want to read them, I don't like repeating myself.

.

Ronin2006 wrote...
Oh and lastly, your 80% statistic is erroneous. People can make up stats to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

In fact I erred on the safe side. As I already said if more people were able to think with their own mind religions would never exists, and religious people are much more than 80% of the population.

Happy?

The fact you interpreted my very own interpretation of "you" in in the specific rather than general sense doesn't actually change anything within the ensuing argument itself.  However, this is irrelevant, and I'm not going to delve further into this line of debate.  It's overall quite clear that you seem hell bent on defending this game regardless of what other people do and say about it.

I've presented my argument, you have presented yours.  But you know what?  You're wrong, and I'm still going to tell people my opinion of this game, and I have every right to do so.  Others will continue to do so, and your attempt at stopping this suggests that you are incredibly stupid and stubborn.  Your attempts at arguing with people here are an exercise in futility.

People *do* have the ability to make their minds up themselves, and you telling people that they should play the game first, is just as bad as others telling them that they shouldn't buy the game anyway.  If you want true liberty, then people will make up their mind however they like.  If that's by playing the game first, or by listening to others who have played the game, that's their choice.  It's ironic that you advocate liberty and freedom of choice and opinion, yet you clearly dismiss other people's approaches to that if they aren't in line with yours.

Anyway, this has gotten far too off the rails for my liking.  I would rather from now on keep the thread on topic.  I know you're the type who will probably be chomping at the bit to get the last word in.  Just be assurred that whatever nonsensical garbage you post in reply will ultimately be left with a chuckle and smile from me as I amuse myself to the desperation of your reply.

[Lord_Valandil]

simonc4175 wrote...

PC Gamer(UK) review was that DA:2 surpassed and improved on everything that Origins had.

So not every critic has the same opinion.  So you fail also 

And The Escapist gave DA2 a perfect 100/100, which is the best joke ever.

[Lord_Valandil]

Amioran wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
Games in my country are fairly expensive.
Almost 90 dollars, and just for the standard edition.
If I can prevent a friend to avoid wasting money in a half-assed game, I'd gladly do it. I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't.
So, instead of DA2 a friend bought Dead Space 2, and he doesn't seem to regret his choice.

He can borrow DA2 from me if he wants to.

"If I can PREVENT"? If I was your friend I would maybe tell you "thanks for your advice" (while thinking, "don't ever dare you tell me what suck or don't sucks next time or I will kill you") but then will just try it for myself. Sadly this almost never happens.

Are you so sure your friends will not like it as to say that you "prevent them from wasting money"? Who do you think you are, God? How in the hell you know that your friend will waste money because he will not like it? From whence it comes this supposed knowledge of the truth?

Sadly, this is one of the motives the world sucks so much. A lot of people telling others what they should do thinking they know already the truth of the matter, and even worse there are those that either fail to this continued brainwashing. The road  to hell is paved of good intentions, they say.

I repeat another time: if you are so sure a game sucks let your friends decide for themselves. You can tell "I didn't like it", but it's another thing saying "don't buy it because it sucks". The former is an opinion, the second is a judgment, and a veiled imposition.

My friend could have told me "Thanks for your advice", indeed.
And then he could have bought DA2, despite my opinion about the game. It's not like I'm a big bad wolf or a big evil ogre who will hit or murder his friends if they don't do what he says.
It's not "brainwashing", I didn't torture him or made him watch a video about how bad DA2 is a la Clockwork Orange.

And yes, I'm God. And I'm disappoint of you, son.

[GammaRayJim]

My thanks to all of you on your input on my analogy. For better or worse it was just a comparison and to me the two situations had similarities. Whether we agree or disagree is not the issue what matters is that the discussion is engaged and lively and perhaps some greater sense of understanding comes from it.
That being said I liked Old Coke over New Coke, still playing DA2 I am actually on my second play as a mage. A great deal of things that I loved in DA:O are missing or altered in a way as to make them unrecognizable. But this was all just my opinion on similarities for me and I was never intending on changing anyone else opinions.
It still seems to me that changes were made to grab other demographics and increase sales. These are normal business practices and some times those things backfire and sometimes they work. I could be horribly wrong in making these assumptions, time and sales will be the proof of anything.

[Nuke1967]

Saphara wrote...

Heh, according to my biology teacher, the new formula according to scientific blind taste testing was actually better than the old Coke, but since it just suddenly replaced the old Coke and no one likes being told what they should and shouldnt like, it failed.

That was the understanding then. I liked both Pepsi & Coke I preferred Pepsi.New Coke tasted was no where as good as Pepsi, and many friends hated it as well. The fountain version was even worse, at that time anyplace that served new Coke fountain a lot  of customers would ask if they had the original, if they didn't they would choose something else.There were people that liked new Coke and they made both for a time. But the original was far far better imo.

[erynnar]

happy_daiz wrote...

It occurred to me reading these posts that we all seem to have forgotten just how buggy DAO was when it came out. I can recall several instances where NPCs were missing half of their bodies, or companions would get stuck in different locations. Heck, I even remember my own character getting stuck on the side of a hill by a bush, and having to reload the game. Was it a deal-breaker for me? No way. An annoyance, yes, but not a deal-breaker. DA2 is kind of the same way for me. Some things annoy me, but I am confident that BioWare will make these things right, eventually.

I personally was a little taken aback by the changes in DA2 at first, and was even resistant to them for a time. After giving it a real chance, I can say that there are lots of aspects of DA2 that I like better than in DAO. Each game has its strengths and its weaknesses, but the bottom line is - were you entertained?

To weigh in on the Coke discussion, I think the biggest issue with the die-hard Coke fans was the lack of communication and choice. Personally, I was a Pepsi fan, so I wasn't really affected, but I do remember how upset people got about it.

Just for giggles, do any of you remember Crystal Pepsi? 
 

Unfortunately the answer to your question for me, sadly, no. The game felt like a chore.  Even my husband plowed through it (all quests done) to the end in two days, because he wanted it over and done with (he is the hardcore gamer and got me started on games, including DAO).  It's bad when he isn't entertained, and he plays all genres.

And OMG! Crystal Pepsi, yes, sadly again, I do remeber it!

[erynnar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Your comparison fails, because DAO wasn't that great. While fun, it was only a rehash.

Critics and sales disagree with you, so does reality, you fail.

I got what I wanted.  *laps up your tears*  :lol:


Also, 1 million in less time than DAO = better game.  :D:D

One million in less time then DAO does not, sad for you or me= a better game. DA2 did not come out first, it sailed into the world on the back of it's predessor's success...DAO. That large number, is in large part, due to the love of the first game and people preordering it.  There is a thread which is using the same metric that BioWare themselves are looking at for sales. And they aren't doing so well for DA2.

edited due to typing to fast in between calls at work and a gramatical error..sheesh. Sorry about that, all who had to read it.

Modifié par erynnar, 11 avril 2011 - 11:43 .

[AkiKishi]

Amioran wrote...
Since people as you are so sure that DA2 is so bad and doesn't work why don't you do a thing?

Stop telling your friends that it sucks and let they decide for themselves. This should not be necessary if people were able to think with their own minds, but, sadly, in this world 80% of people would never be capable of doing a thing like that neither if their life depended on it.

So, why people as you don't stop giving bad word mouth to the game and see what people REALLY think? If you are so sure the game is bad you should not have problems with it, yet, as you see, people continue to tell others the game sucks and this obviously doesn't let the game have a fair judgement.

After you have done this we will see if the game will be really "bad" or not. Want to bet?

That's quite a devious way to get sales I'll give you that.

Showing people the demo was all it took to put anyone off buying DA2. Those are gamers from a wide range of backgrounds and game types.

If someone who calls you friend asks for an opinion you don't lie to them. If DA2 is getting bad word of mouth it's because the % of people who don't like the game and hold that opinion is higher than the reverse.

I will say that a couple of weeks after DA was released I was bombared with people telling me to buy it. DA2... not happened.

[Shatterkiss]

Dubya75 wrote...

GammaRayJim wrote...

 While playing the game and reading the forums I was reminded of this industry blunder that occurred 25 years ago. Coca-Cola sales had been dropping for the previous 15years, so in an effort to revitalize the industry and capture market share back from it's competitors Coke decide to change it's formula. A bold move except that it backfired because it put off it's core customers who wanted nothing but the original Coke so a few months later the original recipie was reintroduced as Coca-Cola classic. The attached link is the company spin on what happened but I lived through it and remember it well, the uproar was overwhelming, very similiar to what is happening here. I guess the best message would be "don't mess with a good thing".

Yeah, except it's really not the same at all! Dragon Age is heading in the right direction whether you like it or not. Sales are not down, in fact their up compared to the first two weeks of Origins sales.

IIrc, they were about the same after two weeks.  It has now been much longer than that, and DA2 sales are well below DAO sales.

[GammaRayJim]

When making any type of decision it is always wise to gather as much information as possible. I ask friends their opinion, I read reviews, visit forums, search the web for raw data and so on any good consumer should. How a person uses that information is their choice. Withholding how I would rate something good or ill is tantamount to lying to me. If my opinion of a product is the only reason someone choose to buy or not well then shame on them.
I also don't think I ever stated that this is a bad game only that I found similarities between how some of the fans reacted to this game and how people reacted when Coca-Cola changed the formula back in 1985. And that you shouldn't mess with a good thing. If you choose to read into that, that I hated the game so be it.
People are very passionate about this franchise and I think that is great. Maybe it will have some type of impact on how this series goes forward. Continue with your passionate response, please be respectful of all. In the end these are all just our own opinions.
And to the poster who asked if I was from Samoa and still had access to New Coke, the answer is no to both. I do not know if they even make it anymore but it's last incarnation was as Coke II. Ahhh the irony...lol.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

One million in less time then DAO does not, sad for you or me= a better game. DA2 did not come out first, it sailed into the world on the back of it's predessor's success...DAO. That large number, is in large part, due to the love of the first game and people preordering it.  There is a thread which is using the same metric that BioWare themselves is looking at for sales. And they aren't doing so well for DA2.

The real fans played the demo.  Some burst into full throated sobs, many of which you can hear echoing on this very board!  The real fans knew exactly what they were getting.  And, as you said, the game sold great because of it.

[Haexpane]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

erynnar wrote...

One million in less time then DAO does not, sad for you or me= a better game. DA2 did not come out first, it sailed into the world on the back of it's predessor's success...DAO. That large number, is in large part, due to the love of the first game and people preordering it.  There is a thread which is using the same metric that BioWare themselves is looking at for sales. And they aren't doing so well for DA2.

The real fans played the demo.  Some burst into full throated sobs, many of which you can hear echoing on this very board!  The real fans knew exactly what they were getting.  And, as you said, the game sold great because of it.

Not sure what you are saying exactly, but on the console world, I paid for DA2 LONG BEFORE the Demo came out.

I'm still mopping up my own tears from playing the demo.

[neubourn]

I could sure go for some Crystal Pepsi right about now

[erynnar]

Haexpane wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

erynnar wrote...

One million in less time then DAO does not, sad for you or me= a better game. DA2 did not come out first, it sailed into the world on the back of it's predessor's success...DAO. That large number, is in large part, due to the love of the first game and people preordering it.  There is a thread which is using the same metric that BioWare themselves is looking at for sales. And they aren't doing so well for DA2.

The real fans played the demo.  Some burst into full throated sobs, many of which you can hear echoing on this very board!  The real fans knew exactly what they were getting.  And, as you said, the game sold great because of it.

Not sure what you are saying exactly, but on the console world, I paid for DA2 LONG BEFORE the Demo came out.

I'm still mopping up my own tears from playing the demo.

As for playing the demo, I played the demo before DAO too (anyone else?), and the demo was similar to what were getting, but not like DAO the finished product turned out to be. It was not as fleshed out as the real game. The demo of DA2 sad to say, turned out to be how shallow the game felt all the way through. It was one giant demo or dlc.

Now, did it have some great premises, and promise? Hell yeah, it's a BioWare game and the DA franchise. Did it feel rushed and hurried? Yep, could it have spent a few more months or even another year, and it would have been the better for it. As it is...meh, but playable (still debating whether I can stomach another playthrough as a mage once I back track and reload to fix a part of Hawke's actions I didn't like the conclusion of).

Don't feed the troll, Haexpane (this will be my last little Scooby Snack for the guy). He trolls other threads calling himself a real fan and the rest of us
who don't agree losers. He has delusions of grandeur thinking he is the
one who decides who the "real fans" are, as say opposed to us making
that decision for ourselves. I prefer to call all of us "real fans"
whether we agree or not,  but that is in my own little head. I leave
whether you think you are, or I am, up to you all.

Modifié par erynnar, 11 avril 2011 - 11:58 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

 He trolls other threads calling himself a real fan and the rest of us who don't agree losers. He has delusions of grandeur thinking he is the one who decides who the "real fans" are, as say opposed to us making that decision for ourselves. I prefer to call all of us "real fans" whether we agree or not,  but that is in my own little head. I leave whether you think you are up to you. Don't feed the troll, Haexpane.

They aren't delusions!  I am grand.  I am a grand piano.  And this grand piano is amused that you're hating on a great experience.  A game that peels all the RPG tropes that never one tickled my ivories and tossed them out.  Any video game that brings gameplay closer to cinema is put and total win.  Movie level story, movie level action, and movie level fun that I control.  That's the Platonic Video Game!

And then along come these people whining that DA2 isn't a DAO/NWN/BG2 rehash.  I think you can see who I think is the troll. ;)  But I take it at face value you honestly believe what you believe.  ;)

I stand by the idea that there are far, far more people who enjoyed DA2 than did not.  ^_^

[Cybermortis]

You've clearly had a serious trauma, I'd guess on the 8th or 11th of March 2011. You should seek professional help as soon as possible.

[Lord_Valandil]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I stand by the idea that there are far, far more people who enjoyed DA2 than did not.  ^_^

You keep thinking that. Hehehe.
The emoticons surely help to prove your point.

[GammaRayJim]

Now, now let's keep it civil, everyone is entitled to their opinion. What everyone needs to understand is that no matter what side of the coin you are on this debate is about a passion for Dragon Age. Those who loved/hated Origins and the same for DA2.

I think that some people are afraid that they are seeing the end of an era as the New RPG replaces the Old and that maybe we want to hold on to what brought us so much pleasure for so many years.

Perhaps we see a blending of gaming genres as something not so good because we feel it strays to far from what is to believed to be an RPG. It may be seen that if we make DA a little more like God of War we can get all those fans to buy DA, and if we make ME more like CoD we can get those consumers too. And you know what maybe they can but at what cost. Does the genre of what an RPG is have to die because of this, does a community of players that have been around since D&D was created have to loose their cherished past time.

I don't know the answer to this, I am not sure anyone does. Change happens it is inevitable.

[Maverick827]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

You keep thinking that. Hehehe.
The emoticons surely help to prove your point.

Honestly, your descent into malcontentedness these past few weeks has been troubling to watch.  You're turning into a chariacture of a hater.

Modifié par Maverick827, 12 avril 2011 - 12:56 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Maverick827 wrote...

Oh well...Either you die as a hero, or live long enough to become the villain, I guess...
Maybe I need some days off. A month. I don't know....

I'm not in the best moment of my life, so I guess I'll be gone for a long time. Even I am ashamed of some of my most recent posting. I just can't find something positive to say.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Oh well...Either you die as a hero, or live long enough to become the villain, I guess...
Maybe I need some days off. A month. I don't know....

I'm not in the best moment of my life, so I guess I'll be gone for a long time. Even I am ashamed of some of my most recent posting. I just can't find something positive to say.

For what it's worth, I've been pretty entertained by it.  :happy::happy::happy:

[Melca36]

Maybe DA: 2 is more like Pepsi Clear.