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[Turnip Root]

I remember in Return to Ostagar you can discover notes from King Cailan and Emperess Celene where they were discussing forming a permanent alliance.
I figured the significance of this was to point out that indeed Loghain's paranoia about the Orlesians was a thing of the past.  However, in Dragon Age II King Alistair(or Queen Anora I presume if that is the type of game you imported) says that Orlais wishes to invade Ferelden and reclaim their former province.

I don't really know what to make of this but it seems to actually justify Loghain's paranoia in Dragon Age:Origins.  Why has Orlais suddenly become aggressive against Ferelden even though they desired peace with them several years back?

Is Orlais now ruled by a different emperess/emperor?

[Rockpopple]

I was under the oppression that Orlais and Fereldan were on the verge of a permanent peace deal (well, as permanent as they get) when Loghain pulled a dick-move and killed one of the prominent negotiators, and the deal fell through.

That's what I thought anyway. No Cailan, no deal.

[BigEvil]

From what I gathered of that situation, it's the Orlesian nobles who want to invade, and the Empress was struggling to keep them under control.

[The Baconer]

Celene is still the Empress.

I imagine the hostility is a product of their inherent nature: being a bunch of whiny, pompous, traitorous degenerates.

[Turnip Root]

BigEvil wrote...

From what I gathered of that situation, it's the Orlesian nobles who want to invade, and the Empress was struggling to keep them under control.

Hmm, that must've slipped past me.  I know in Antiva the monarch there is pretty much just a figurehead and the power is in the hands of powerful economic barons.
I thought the power in Orlais was consolidated primarily to the throne though but there are so many intricacies in the lore behind the politics of each nation that it's hard for me to say for sure.

I guess it would also make sense that Cailan's death would have brought an end to such a deal but I think knowing Alistair he too probably would also favor a peace treaty with Orlais, though he might not be as talented the politician as his brother was.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Orlais might be the seat of the Divine, but the nobility is treacherous and corrupt. From what I understand, the nobles are trying to push Celene into war with Ferelden while they are still recovering from the Blight/throne change, to gain lands back that they so rightly feel belong to them.

[Turnip Root]

The Baconer wrote...

Celene is still the Empress.

I imagine the hostility is a product of their inherent nature: being a bunch of whiny, pompous, traitorous degenerates.

+5 Renegade.

[LobselVith8]

If you bring Loghain with you in RtO, he has a very bad reaction to the fact that King Cailan would have handed over Ferelden to Empress Celene I through their mariage; he was a weak King, after all.

[RazorrX]

Orlais is the seat of the Divine. Alistair has accepted apostates under his protection. The Chantry can not tolerate that for long.

The Nobility want to take back what they once held.

Apparently Alistair is not the puppet that Calain was, and is not offering to marry the Emperess and thus bring Ferelden into Orlais by marraige.

So technically, Orlais has always been planning on taking Ferelden back.

[AlexXIV]

Because Loghain was right all along.

[snfonseka]

BigEvil wrote...

From what I gathered of that situation, it's the Orlesian nobles who want to invade, and the Empress was struggling to keep them under control.

This is correct.

[Emperor Iaius I]

It is in the nature of Orlesians to be treacherous and grasping. Celene is cleverer than people give her credit: she may genuinely want peace, or she may be pretending to do so just in case things go wrong. Do not underestimate the girl.

[Curlain]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

It is in the nature of Orlesians to be treacherous and grasping. Celene is cleverer than people give her credit: she may genuinely want peace, or she may be pretending to do so just in case things go wrong. Do not underestimate the girl.

She sounds like Anora, but more cunning and dangerous 

[dgcatanisiri]

BigEvil wrote...

From what I gathered of that situation, it's the Orlesian nobles who want to invade, and the Empress was struggling to keep them under control.

That has been my take on the situation as well. Between the Chantry not wanting the apostates who have fled to Ferelden to remain free and nobles who want what is 'rightfully' Orleias's land back, Celene is struggling to keep things from falling apart and war to begin again, but she herself wants peace and accepts Ferelden as an independent nation.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Prettier too--at least as far as the famous fanart goes.

[Addai]

As I read it, Celene was trying to achieve by "peaceful" means the same thing: To get Ferelden back in their orbit. Now that Cailan is dead and her plans got borked, people are pressuring her to go to plan B. Which, given her eagerness to get chevaliers into the country, may have been part of plan A as well. A little carrot and stick combination.

[Kaiser Shepard]

AlexXIV wrote...

Because Loghain was right all along.

Indeed, he was. Too bad I can't help but kill him on my canon runs.

Still, I can't help but wonder what a Warden Loghain, stationed in Orlais, will do. Yet one more 'piece of evidence' that foreshadows the next game/expansion taking place there.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 11 avril 2011 - 05:00 .

[Xin Rong]

Loghain was right. This just proves Cailan was good for nothing.

[earl of the north]

Why is Orlais suddenly hostile again?

Loghain....you know the genius who destroyed the main Fereldan army and spent a year fighting a civil war while his country was being destroyed by the blight. Right now Fereldan has got to look very vunerable to their larger and stronger neighbour.

Modifié par earl of the north, 11 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[Foefaller]

Addai67 wrote...

As I read it, Celene was trying to achieve by "peaceful" means the same thing: To get Ferelden back in their orbit. Now that Cailan is dead and her plans got borked, people are pressuring her to go to plan B. Which, given her eagerness to get chevaliers into the country, may have been part of plan A as well. A little carrot and stick combination.

Until/unless I can meet her face-to-face and be proven otherwise, I'd like to take a more... altruistic explanation: Celene honesty wants peace with Ferelden, and realised the best way to make that happen and keep her nobles in line would have been marrying Cailan. It would have been win-win: A Marriage would cement a lasting alliance, if not outright unification, between Orlais and Ferelden, and the Orlesian lords and ladys would no longer be champing at the bit at a chance to once again make Ferelden a jewel of the Orlesian crown, beause a this point, Ferelden pretty much was.

...but then the Blight hapened, Cailan was killed, and the new king/queen has no desire to go through with the same plan, for one reason or the other, so now Celene and (at least) Alistair are trying maintain peace while the Orlesian nobles are doing anything they can to force war and try to once again conquer Ferelden.

[Rabies]

I can answer this question very simply. You want to know why Orlais is being hostile again? It's because the Orlesians are French, and everyone knows you NEVER trust the French.

[Asdara]

Let's not neglect the great insult it must have been to turn back their Grey Wardens at the border because they had "support troops" with them. I can't imagine that went over at all - plus Ferelden looks like a glory hound vs. the Archdemon wanting to do it all by themselves - and winning no less, it's a dangerous political situation from the word go there.

Meanwhile, it isn't as if things have been going smoothly in the country what with the Amaranthine issues we saw in Awakenings. A country that's put on a "we're free and independent and therefore better than anyplace else" that also happens to be dealing with internal struggles and weakened by a recent Blight? It's a country anyone would think about taking over, especially if they'd already done so before.

[Addai]

Foefaller wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

As I read it, Celene was trying to achieve by "peaceful" means the same thing: To get Ferelden back in their orbit. Now that Cailan is dead and her plans got borked, people are pressuring her to go to plan B. Which, given her eagerness to get chevaliers into the country, may have been part of plan A as well. A little carrot and stick combination.

Until/unless I can meet her face-to-face and be proven otherwise, I'd like to take a more... altruistic explanation: Celene honesty wants peace with Ferelden, and realised the best way to make that happen and keep her nobles in line would have been marrying Cailan. It would have been win-win: A Marriage would cement a lasting alliance, if not outright unification, between Orlais and Ferelden, and the Orlesian lords and ladys would no longer be champing at the bit at a chance to once again make Ferelden a jewel of the Orlesian crown, beause a this point, Ferelden pretty much was.

...but then the Blight hapened, Cailan was killed, and the new king/queen has no desire to go through with the same plan, for one reason or the other, so now Celene and (at least) Alistair are trying maintain peace while the Orlesian nobles are doing anything they can to force war and try to once again conquer Ferelden.

People are always so reluctant to believe a pretty face conceals cunning and ruthlessness.  Celene assassinated her way to the top of the rung.  It may be that she wears a halo, but it also may be that she's just more Orlesian than usual.  Cailan had nothing to offer her except as a notch on her belt.

[bleetman]

Nothing like a little invading to distract people from the inconvenient collapse of Thedas's primary religious foundation, which happens to run out of your country.

[Merced652]

Excuse for some contrived plot for da3.