82 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiTobsen]

bleetman wrote...

Nothing like a little invading to distract people from the inconvenient collapse of Thedas's primary religious foundation, which happens to run out of your country.

The Grand Game must go on. They have no time for irrelevant things like a war between the chantry and the mages

[Addai]

Merced652 wrote...

Excuse for some contrived plot for da3.

"Contrived"?  It seems very well developed to me.  Unless plot development always = contrivance in your book.

[Maria13]

Yay, it's difficult to discern what Orlais's interests are and what are those of the Chantry. Alistair seems convinced that Celene is attempting to keep her nobles in line... He may be right, perhaps Celene has realised in her dotage that a conquered Ferelden will always be a thorn in Orlais's side. Perhaps he's wrong and she's just biding her time... As for the Chantry, well, it seems obvious that they do not look favourably on the King of Ferelden's stance towards mages but who is calling the shots? Difficult to know.

Agree with Addai that this is not contrived but very well sign posted.

[Raiil]

Well, I hope the Orlesians try to bring it. I can't speak for all playthroughs, but my Amell is going to be riding at the head of the line, screaming 'Death First' as she maneuvers her mabari chariot into battle.

Orlais has a history of getting their conquer on. I'd have been more surprised if they weren't trying to steamroll Ferelden. Luckily, no matter what you do, Ferelden is ruled by someone with enough intelligence and/or steel balls to deny them. If you've got Anora- well, girlfriend is tough, brilliant, and savvy, as well as being a natural figurehead as Loghain's daughter. If you've got Alistair- he's got more practical experience than most, he's popular with the people, and something tells me that he's willing to break rules (i,e. recruit apostates) to get the job done. And depending on how you play, he has contacts with Orzammar, the Antivan Crows, and the Dalish. I'm not saying they'll all automatically rally to his banner- but if a common foe emerges, well, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Maria13]

@ Valentia: Exactamente... It should be fun!

[Mnemnosyne]

AlexXIV wrote...

Because Loghain was right all along.

<Bison>OF COURSE!</Bison>

I see no reason to think that Loghain wasn't right, especially with the RtO reveal that Celene was planning to marry Cailan.  All that indicates to me is that she wanted to reconquer Ferelden in a non-military fashion, and a political marriage to Cailan makes Ferelden a de facto province of Orlais, without any conquering needed.

I don't see that plan ever having worked myself though - if there had been no blight and Cailan and Celene's plan had gone forward, Loghain would have called a Landsmeet as soon as Cailan announced it, and it's really bloody likely that the Landsmeet would have proclaimed him or Anora the ruler and tossed Cailan out on his Orlesian-loving ass.  Most of the people at the Landsmeet were alive during the Orlesian occupation, and either actually fought the Orlesians or lost parents/family to them, so they never would have accepted that.

Now that that plan has fallen through, Orlais is back to military conquest as their primary strategy.  Celene 'holding back her nobles' is either a diplomatic ploy, or she has determined that Orlais is not in the best position to reconquer Ferelden right about now, and wants more time.

[Turnip Root]

Maybe there will be a coup in Dragon Age III and Celene will be dethroned and replaced by an extreme Orlesian nationalist.
In exile, Celene can join the warden as a companion.
I think it would be cool if you meet her and she's disguised as a refugee or something living a double life.

[The Baconer]

Turnip Root wrote...

Maybe there will be a coup in Dragon Age III and Celene will be dethroned and replaced by an extreme Orlesian nationalist.
In exile, Celene can join the warden as a companion.
I think it would be cool if you meet her and she's disguised as a refugee or something living a double life.

Like the pruned up Orlesian tart even knows which end of a blade you're supposed to hold.

[Herr Uhl]

The Baconer wrote...

Turnip Root wrote...

Maybe there will be a coup in Dragon Age III and Celene will be dethroned and replaced by an extreme Orlesian nationalist.
In exile, Celene can join the warden as a companion.
I think it would be cool if you meet her and she's disguised as a refugee or something living a double life.

Like the pruned up Orlesian tart even knows which end of a blade you're supposed to hold.

Orlesians go running as soon as they taste some cold Fereldan steel.

[Maria13]

Ummm, Celene murdered/plotted her way to the throne in her teens. Too right she knows which is the pointy end but she probably prefers for someone else to wield the knife.

[Merced652]

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Excuse for some contrived plot for da3.

"Contrived"?  It seems very well developed to me.  Unless plot development always = contrivance in your book.

Well developed? Unless it was developed in a book i have yet to read i would question how you came to that conclusion. Orlais is apparently a threat to invade everyone, even the free marches. I suppose thats a well developed plot too. The reason i say contrived is very simply because they telegraphed us and said da3 will be in orlais. A political state where orlais is either at war with ferelden or close to it will just be a episodic plot point much like the qunari in A2. I'm not saying it won't or cannot be well done, but at this point it might as well be gathering 50 gold to fund an exped.. wait you said well developed?

Modifié par Merced652, 11 avril 2011 - 06:22 .

[Turnip Root]

I could totally picture Empress Celene as a rogue/assassin type companion.

[EnforcerGREG]

Orlais is powerful but they havn't had much luck recently what with losing Ferleden to Marric and Loosing the western hills of Perendale to Nevarra.

I think at one point Orlais had control of the Anderfels and some Free marches city states, we know this is true for Kirkwall.

Maby the nobles want to restore some national  pride so decide to conquer some new territory or reclaim a lost provence, Ferelden having just survived a blight makes it a prime target. Nevarra from the sounds of it is just to disciplined for the Orlesian army.

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 11 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[Herr Uhl]

Merced652 wrote...

Well developed? Unless it was developed in a book i have yet to read i would question how you came to that conclusion. Orlais is apparently a threat to invade everyone, even the free marches. I suppose thats a well developed plot too. The reason i say contrived is very simply because they telegraphed us and said da3 will be in orlais. A political state where orlais is either at war with ferelden or close to it will just a episodic plot point much like the qunari in A2. I'm not saying it won't or cannot be well done, but at this point it might as well be gathering 50 gold to fund an exped.. wait you said well developed?

They were expelled from Ferelden, nobles got all mad, Celene tried peaceful takeover, Cailan died, Ferelden is weakened by the blight, nobles see this as a chance to get back their "birthright".

It is hardly contrived at least.

And an exalted march isn't Orlais invading.

[IanPolaris]

I wouldn't be at all suprised if the Chantry (or elements in the Chnatry...think Mother Petrice) are strongly pushing/encouraging the Orlesian nobility behind the scenes. As for Celene,she is a canny Empress. I think that she recongizes the global instability and the danger on her northern border, and feels that Fereldan is a running sore that Orlais definately doesn't need again especially now that Fereldan has competant leadership.

There is another aspect that's probably causing the Chantry to push for war and Celene trying to stop it. Fereldan is one very short step from going "Church of England" on the Chantry with respect to Magic. Indeed given the events in Kirkwall and subsequent Circle revolt, I wouldn't be suprised if Fereldan HAS gone Church of England on the Chantry and has nationalized magical resources (possibly including the Templars....I can see KC Gregoire cutting such a deal grudgingly if it means his Templars could still continue to police magic and keep the peace).

Also consider that while Fereldan's army is weakened, what there is has been recenly battleharded against Darkspawn and as such Fereldan right now probably has the most experienced army in Thedas excluding Tevinter and the Qunari. Also the ancient treaties will definately have a diplomatic side effect, to wit, Fereldan's relationship with Orzammar and the Dalish in the Brecillian forest are good this soon after the blight.

Couple all this with magical support from the Royal Fereldan Apostates that only Tevinter would be able to match, and suddenly if you are Celene going after Fereldan suddenly looks like a Pandora's box...but by the same token Justina probably finds Fereldan intolerable right now.

-Polaris

[Addai]

Merced652 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Excuse for some contrived plot for da3.

"Contrived"?  It seems very well developed to me.  Unless plot development always = contrivance in your book.

Well developed? Unless it was developed in a book i have yet to read i would question how you came to that conclusion. Orlais is apparently a threat to invade everyone, even the free marches. I suppose thats a well developed plot too. The reason i say contrived is very simply because they telegraphed us and said da3 will be in orlais. A political state where orlais is either at war with ferelden or close to it will just be a episodic plot point much like the qunari in A2. I'm not saying it won't or cannot be well done, but at this point it might as well be gathering 50 gold to fund an exped.. wait you said well developed?

Uh, bitter much?

Orlais is an ambitious empire nation, that's pretty much Dragon Age 101.  The stuff with Celene has been in the works since The Calling.  It's part of the Origins story and is further developed in the DLCs.  What's contrived about it?  Having her and Orlais come on to center stage is a perfectly natural next step.

[Merced652]

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Excuse for some contrived plot for da3.

"Contrived"?  It seems very well developed to me.  Unless plot development always = contrivance in your book.

Well developed? Unless it was developed in a book i have yet to read i would question how you came to that conclusion. Orlais is apparently a threat to invade everyone, even the free marches. I suppose thats a well developed plot too. The reason i say contrived is very simply because they telegraphed us and said da3 will be in orlais. A political state where orlais is either at war with ferelden or close to it will just be a episodic plot point much like the qunari in A2. I'm not saying it won't or cannot be well done, but at this point it might as well be gathering 50 gold to fund an exped.. wait you said well developed?

Uh, bitter much?

Orlais is an ambitious empire nation, that's pretty much Dragon Age 101.  The stuff with Celene has been in the works since The Calling.  It's part of the Origins story and is further developed in the DLCs.  What's contrived about it?  Having her and Orlais come on to center stage is a perfectly natural next step.

I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.

[packardbell]

If Hawke was the leader of Kirkwall still, he should conquer the other Free States n send troops to help Ferelden. I see a WW2 scenario, ie Ferelden is Poland.

[Loc'n'lol]

The chevaliers needed new fields to flatten and Fereldan women to rape.

[Maria13]

packardbell wrote...

If Hawke was the leader of Kirkwall still, he should conquer the other Free States n send troops to help Ferelden. I see a WW2 scenario, ie Ferelden is Poland.

And I wonder what King Alistair was doing in Kirkwall asking Hawke in for an audience???

But he was rumbled, wasn't he?

[Beerfish]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

The chevaliers needed new fields to flatten and Fereldan women to rape.

AVeline is going to jump on you and give you the Aveline slap down if you say that.

[Beerfish]

Efit, bah double post...

This part of the story, O'rlais will let people say.  'Loghain was right!' when all was said and done.'

Modifié par Beerfish, 11 avril 2011 - 06:43 .

[Maria13]

Beerfish wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

The chevaliers needed new fields to flatten and Fereldan women to rape.

AVeline is going to jump on you and give you the Aveline slap down if you say that.

Only the really lucky guys get that!!!

[TobiTobsen]

Short Offtopic question about Orlais and the Chantry:

When I just thought about Celene and Justina I asked myself: Is there something like a High Templar? Is the Knight-Commander the highest rank a templar can get? Or is there somebody who stands slightly under the Devine but above or on the same level as the Grand Clerics?

[IanPolaris]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Short Offtopic question about Orlais and the Chantry:

When I just thought about Celene and Justina I asked myself: Is there something like a High Templar? Is the Knight-Commander the highest rank a templar can get? Or is there somebody who stands slightly under the Devine but above or on the same level as the Grand Clerics?

Yes.  He's called the Knight Vigilant and is the direct subordinate of the Divine and directs the Knight Commanders all across Thedas (per Bioware Blog Page).

-Polaris