82 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Merced652 wrote...
I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.

Both/and would be bad?

[LobselVith8]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Short Offtopic question about Orlais and the Chantry:

When I just thought about Celene and Justina I asked myself: Is there something like a High Templar? Is the Knight-Commander the highest rank a templar can get? Or is there somebody who stands slightly under the Devine but above or on the same level as the Grand Clerics?

In Orlais, from the glittering White Spire in Val Royeaux the Knight-Vigilant commands the templars to "serve the Maker's will."

[Nerdage]

Merced652 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Uh, bitter much?

Orlais is an ambitious empire nation, that's pretty much Dragon Age 101.  The stuff with Celene has been in the works since The Calling.  It's part of the Origins story and is further developed in the DLCs.  What's contrived about it?  Having her and Orlais come on to center stage is a perfectly natural next step.

I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.
 

Well DA2 was about the qunari and the circle vs templars. Hell, DAO was about the civil war and the blight. Why couldn't DA3 involve the chantry thing and the tension with Ferelden.

[Maria13]

@ Ian Polaris. Basically that's the way I see it. Mountainous inhospitable country, taciturn independent-minded locals... Forget it!

[TobiTobsen]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Short Offtopic question about Orlais and the Chantry:

When I just thought about Celene and Justina I asked myself: Is there something like a High Templar? Is the Knight-Commander the highest rank a templar can get? Or is there somebody who stands slightly under the Devine but above or on the same level as the Grand Clerics?

In Orlais, from the glittering White Spire in Val Royeaux the Knight-Vigilant commands the templars to "serve the Maker's will."

Ah. Thanks for that.

[AlexXIV]

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.

Both/and would be bad?

If the trend continues there won't be enough ressources for Orlais. DA3 will probably play in a cave.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[Merced652]

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.

Both/and would be bad?

Yes if done like DA2. 

[Peer of the Empire]

King Cailan is dead.  The personal connection is lost.

Wishing to marry the two monarchs could mean Orlais aspiring to the union of the kingdoms and universal Empire.  Although the Cailan option is gone, they still want to do it, and now when the Ferelden forces and economy are depleted by the Blight, is the perfect time.

[DreGregoire]

Here's my take on the why of it

First off Ferelden gained it's freedom through strength of arms and cunning. Guess who led the armies in the later portion of that. Loghain. Yep, you heard it Loghain. Rawr!

Right silliness aside.

Cailan was in talks (sent letters to) with the Empress and she even sent a portion of Orlais' army with the grey wardens, at Cailan (probably Duncan's as well) request, but Loghain had them turned back at the border. My understanding is that it wasn't a very nice request to turn back. This created resentment in Orlais toward Fereldens.

Ferelden was devestated by the blight. To many people died. Some of the people who died didn't die as a result of the blight but of the civil war. Despite having a king and/or queen Ferelden is weakened.

Is there a better time for a forced take over?

It makes me so sad. On Hawke I can't decide if I want to stay in Kirkwall or go help save Ferelden.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 11 avril 2011 - 08:20 .

[Addai]

Merced652 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
I'll happily eat crow if da3 is only about orlais and not this nonsense about the chantry vs the circle.

Both/and would be bad?

Yes if done like DA2. 

Right, so you just want to ****** about DA2.  Check back if you haven't anything to say that's relevant to the thread topic.

[Amagoi]

DreGregoire wrote...

Here's my take on the why of it

First off Ferelden gained it's freedom through strength of arms and cunning. Guess who led the armies in the later portion of that. Loghain. Yep, you heard it Loghain. Rawr!

Right silliness aside.

Cailan was in talks (sent letters to) with the Empress and she even sent a portion of Orlais' army with the grey wardens, at Cailan (probably Duncan's as well) request, but Loghain had them turned back at the border. My understanding is that it wasn't a very nice request to turn back. This created resentment in Orlais toward Fereldens.

Ferelden was devestated by the blight. To many people died. Some of the people who died didn't die as a result of the blight but of the civil war. Despite having a king and/or queen Ferelden is weakened.

Is there a better time for a forced take over?

It makes me so sad. On Hawke I can't decide if I want to stay in Kirkwall or go help save Ferelden.

I'm sure Loghain definatly had something to do with a bit of a flare up in tensions in 9:30. The Orlesian nobles could be pretty easily insulted. I could see them being upset at the idea of Orlais lending the poor Dog Lords their aid in the form of Chevaliars, and the Fereldens to smack their hand and tell them that they don't need or want their help.

That'd annoy just about anybody, and being nobles it's their nature to be prickly and easily insulted. Celene is a good ruler and a master at The Game, and that may be a reason why 7 years later tensions are only now starting to flare up. Plus with the tensions with the Divine and the Chantry, several nobles may see a war as the perfect opportunity to advance themselves.

I just don't think Orlais and Ferelden tensions are solely Celene/Nobles going "Rawr! We want our province back! And a new Maricspawn husband!"

[Skilled Seeker]

Celene arranged the assassination of her own uncle and evaded death twice to take the throne. She is not just a pretty face. She is a ruthless ****.

[blothulfur]

My take on it Celene tried to peacefully win Ferelden back through marriage and alliance with Cailan after finding Anora could not bear children aided by her loyal lackey on the borderlands Isolde of Redcliffe and her husband Arl Eammon, what forced her to abandon this plan was when it was found that Cailan was the infertile one and thus the third letter found at Ostagar where she abandons Cailan.

Now she's scenting blood in the water with Ferelden weakened by the blight and is seeking to regain an imperial province, probably with Eammons help as a peace broker once again. However a small army of blight veterans who perhaps are lead by Loghain one of the greatest military minds in Thedas might well defeat Orlesian superior numbers through superior tactics and strategy as occured regularly in the hundred years war.

[Camenae]

Well if Celene was just a sweet girl, then no way she can seize let alone keep power, especially in a country like Orlais.

[AlexXIV]

Camenae wrote...

Well if Celene was just a sweet girl, then no way she can seize let alone keep power, especially in a country like Orlais.

She may have inherited the throne and/or have had a good supporter. Like Alistair had the Warden.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 11 avril 2011 - 09:25 .

[Camenae]

AlexXIV wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Well if Celene was just a sweet girl, then no way she can seize let alone keep power, especially in a country like Orlais.

She may have inherited the throne and/or have had a good supporter. Like Alistair had the Warden.

Okay maybe not "no way," but I would still say that odds would be heavily against her if she were just a nice person, especially since Orlais sounds like it's full of scheming nobles who probably have even fewer scruples.

[Kenshen]

Ok maybe someone can explain to me a few things here. First if Cailan hadn't died and went through with the plan to marry Celene does that mean Anora would have been kicked to the curb? Second I was under the impression that Orlais viewed Ferelden as a third world country so why did they invade in the first place? What was there that they wanted? And third why after ten years has passed that Orlais is just now thinking of making war again. Also where are all of you getting this info I didn't see anything in the codex that mentioned any of this? Yes I am curious but lucky for me I am not a cat.

[IanPolaris]

aryon69 wrote...

Ok maybe someone can explain to me a few things here. First if Cailan hadn't died and went through with the plan to marry Celene does that mean Anora would have been kicked to the curb? Second I was under the impression that Orlais viewed Ferelden as a third world country so why did they invade in the first place? What was there that they wanted? And third why after ten years has passed that Orlais is just now thinking of making war again. Also where are all of you getting this info I didn't see anything in the codex that mentioned any of this? Yes I am curious but lucky for me I am not a cat.

1.  Yes.  Anora would have been kicked to the curb.

2.  Easy land, pretty women for Chavliers to ravish, what's not to like about beating up a weaker neighbor if you're Orlias.  In addiiton, Feredan harbors solve a LOT of trade route bottlenecks (esp Lyrium routes because Orzammar is within Fereldan).  Finally don't forget the religious aspect.  Denerim is a holy city second only to Val Royeux itself as the birthplace of Andraste.

3. Why now?  Loghain not that long ago kicked Orlais' tail between her legs with a unprovisioned and numerically inferior army to boot and Fereldan until the blight had only gotten stronger...and Loghain was still there hale and hearty.  Afterwords, Celene kept her nobles down long enough I expect and near as I can tell it's bad manners to jump on a country fighting a blight.  Also Fereldan had access to some very strong allies (at least against the blight) and the fact the Hero of Fereldan ended the blight in a year (when they generally take generations) probaby gave all the Orlesian Geerals pause.

My take anyway.

-Polaris

[Amagoi]

Camenae wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Well if Celene was just a sweet girl, then no way she can seize let alone keep power, especially in a country like Orlais.

She may have inherited the throne and/or have had a good supporter. Like Alistair had the Warden.

Okay maybe not "no way," but I would still say that odds would be heavily against her if she were just a nice person, especially since Orlais sounds like it's full of scheming nobles who probably have even fewer scruples.

I'm sure she's super nice to be around, but I really doubt she's a good person through and through. She may or may not have had her uncle killed, adnd she can control a friggin horde of nobles that think it's fun to screw each other over.

She also had great admiration for Anora, but that didn't stop her from planning on stealing Anora's husband. I'm pretty sure most nice people don't do that. If they do, I've got some odd friends.

[Herr Uhl]

Amagoi wrote...

She also had great admiration for Anora, but that didn't stop her from planning on stealing Anora's husband. I'm pretty sure most nice people don't do that. If they do, I've got some odd friends.

Admiration may be pushing it.

[Peer of the Empire]

aryon69 wrote...

Ok maybe someone can explain to me a few things here. First if Cailan hadn't died and went through with the plan to marry Celene does that mean Anora would have been kicked to the curb? Second I was under the impression that Orlais viewed Ferelden as a third world country so why did they invade in the first place? What was there that they wanted? And third why after ten years has passed that Orlais is just now thinking of making war again. Also where are all of you getting this info I didn't see anything in the codex that mentioned any of this? Yes I am curious but lucky for me I am not a cat.

They want our pretty wimminz.  Also we defeated them in open combat so our citizens cant be that bad.

[Harcken]

I really hope their is a better reason than just "the Orlesian nobles are greedy," otherwise it would come off as a pretty contrived and forced plot point.

[IanPolaris]

Harcken wrote...

I really hope their is a better reason than just "the Orlesian nobles are greedy," otherwise it would come off as a pretty contrived and forced plot point.

Ultimately I think that will be a large part of it, and the fact that many Orlesian nobles consider Fereldan to be rightfully theirs.  However, I think ultimately Justina and the Chantry is going to be behind it either directly or (more likely) indirectly.  The Chantry doesn't have the octane anymore to call an Exalted March...at least not without having the rest of Thedas roll over in gales of laughter...but they can not tolerate a "Church of England" Chantry in Fereledan especially not when it comes to Royal rather than Chantry control of magic...and that seems to be what's happening.

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

IanPolaris wrote...

2.  Easy land, pretty women for Chavliers to ravish, what's not to like about beating up a weaker neighbor if you're Orlias.  In addiiton, Feredan harbors solve a LOT of trade route bottlenecks (esp Lyrium routes because Orzammar is within Fereldan).  Finally don't forget the religious aspect.  Denerim is a holy city second only to Val Royeux itself as the birthplace of Andraste.

Hmm.  "Let's make war so we can gave our tea in the birthplace as our peace-loving religious icon."  ..  Yeah, that sounds like the them.  Err, not that I'm chiming in on the subject just as a chance to spew more venom at the Chantry or anything.  *looks around nervously*

I don't think there's enough evidence to condemn Celene.  We'd be fools not to be suspicious of her but I think she should be viewed as an ally that you keep an eye on.  Like Zevran, only with clothes on.