82 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

Celene strikes me as basically being a female Louis XIV - in other words, she's not going to do anything because the Chantry or her nobles think she should.

I believe that Orlais is going to have enough on its plate with the Mages vs Templars war, since that's almost certainly going to be dragging secular powers into the fray. If she thought there was the opportunity, I don't doubt she'd try and get Ferelden back (as the proposed marriage to Cailan proves), but it just isn't there at the moment. Noblemen and chevaliers hopes that Ferelden is weak and easy pickings are nothing but a pipe dream.

[Foefaller]

Maria13 wrote...

packardbell wrote...

If Hawke was the leader of Kirkwall still, he should conquer the other Free States n send troops to help Ferelden. I see a WW2 scenario, ie Ferelden is Poland.

And I wonder what King Alistair was doing in Kirkwall asking Hawke in for an audience???

But he was rumbled, wasn't he?

Alistair wanted to meet the Champion first, so that s/he could ease introductions between him and Meredith or whoever Meredith had supported to be Viscount(ess) when he got there to improve the chances of getting what he wanted/needed.

And what was that? Probably an Alliance with Kirkwall. You might be wondering what good having a city-state from the Free Marches on your side when talking about Orlais... untill you remember that Kirkwall's romantic title of the "City of Chains" refers to the ones they have stretched across the Waking Sea (of which Kirkwall is at one of its narrower points, you can even see that on the map here:http://images.wikia....0/ThedasMap.jpg) and can be used to block all naval traffic... An alliance would mean Freleden could put a lot of economic strain on Orlais... unless those snooty Orlesians are content with all thier sea trade comming to and from Nevarra from now on.

Modifié par Foefaller, 12 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Rabies]

IanPolaris wrote...

Harcken wrote...

I really hope their is a better reason than just "the Orlesian nobles are greedy," otherwise it would come off as a pretty contrived and forced plot point.

Ultimately I think that will be a large part of it, and the fact that many Orlesian nobles consider Fereldan to be rightfully theirs.  However, I think ultimately Justina and the Chantry is going to be behind it either directly or (more likely) indirectly.  The Chantry doesn't have the octane anymore to call an Exalted March...at least not without having the rest of Thedas roll over in gales of laughter...but they can not tolerate a "Church of England" Chantry in Fereledan especially not when it comes to Royal rather than Chantry control of magic...and that seems to be what's happening.

-Polaris

That's a very good point. At least, that's what seems to be happening if you've put Alistair on the throne. I took the throne myself as the Warden, but I think Orlais just has this kind of "Imperium" fever. They WANT to be the biggest show in town. They WANT to prove that they are superior to every other country and civilization. The reason for that being simply because they think their **** doesn't stink. It's an enormous amount of pride and hubris, bordering along the lines of what the magisters had displayed...

It's no surprise that the Divine makes her home there. The Chantry takes a very similar viewpoint. There is little respect given towards other beliefs and viewpoints. You only need to look at the Exalted Marches against the Dales to see that much. The Game also is something that serves the Chantry's purposes as a means of controlling the population. They like having their templars, mages, and nobility on nice leashes and puppett strings that can be pulled when desired.

...and they're French. FRENCH!!! NEVER TRUST THE FRENCH!!!

[Emperor Iaius I]

Rifneno wrote...

I don't think there's enough evidence to condemn Celene.  We'd be fools not to be suspicious of her but I think she should be viewed as an ally that you keep an eye on.  Like Zevran, only with clothes on.

Lots and lots and lots of clothes.

[Raiil]

Celene didn't just inherit the throne, iirc from her codex. She out manuevered her way to the top.


My view was that Celene actually isn't interested in reclaiming Ferelden- conquering is an expensive proposition and you bleed gold trying to keep your territories. Yes, Ferelden recently lost men to the civil war and Blight. Ferelden also has an army of seasoned men who beat back the Blight. They're notoriously stubborn, with a popular ruler on the throne, and probably prone to beating the s--t out of people trying to reconquer them. Celene may be wise enough to realise the risk far outstrips the reward.

[Turnip Root]

I think one other reason Orlais may not wish to invade Ferelden is because Nevarra is a nation that currently has shaky peace with them. If Nevarra saw Orlais as expanding too quickly they may actually aid Ferelden in defeating Orlais just for the sake of curbing growing Orlesian power.

Modifié par Turnip Root, 12 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Maria13]

Foefaller wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

packardbell wrote...

If Hawke was the leader of Kirkwall still, he should conquer the other Free States n send troops to help Ferelden. I see a WW2 scenario, ie Ferelden is Poland.

And I wonder what King Alistair was doing in Kirkwall asking Hawke in for an audience???

But he was rumbled, wasn't he?

Alistair wanted to meet the Champion first, so that s/he could ease introductions between him and Meredith or whoever Meredith had supported to be Viscount(ess) when he got there to improve the chances of getting what he wanted/needed.

And what was that? Probably an Alliance with Kirkwall. You might be wondering what good having a city-state from the Free Marches on your side when talking about Orlais... untill you remember that Kirkwall's romantic title of the "City of Chains" refers to the ones they have stretched across the Waking Sea (of which Kirkwall is at one of its narrower points, you can even see that on the map here:http://images.wikia....0/ThedasMap.jpg) and can be used to block all naval traffic... An alliance would mean Freleden could put a lot of economic strain on Orlais... unless those snooty Orlesians are content with all thier sea trade comming to and from Nevarra from now on.

Well exactly, plus, of course the Free Marches are the 'bread basket' of Thedas and one can imagine Ferelden being a little short of grain after the Blight and wanting to reduce its dependence on orlesian exports. And it could do no harm overall to up relations with influentian Fereldan refugees by the by.

I'm going to be inmodest:social.bioware.com/239230/blog/16805/

[TheDash]

You know, I recall the letters found in RtO showing a much more complex political drama than a lot of people on this thread are describing. For one, the "dump Anora, marry Celene" plan was suggested by Eamon, of all people, and it wasn't well-received at first. The simplistic "Orlesian takeover" version of what they meant comes from Loghain, who is paranoid to the point of full-blown delusion.

These games are huge on divided houses and tarnished heroes acting in the name of grim necessity. Whatever form the conflict takes, I'm certain it's not going to be morally straightforward. ESPECIALLY if a nation explicitly specialized in political intrigue is involved.

EDIT: Thanks for the map Foefaller. The geography of Thedas has been confusing the hell out of me since the series' beginning, mostly because it's a cultural analog of Europe, but with a radically different layout.

Modifié par TheDash, 13 avril 2011 - 05:19 .