Nimrodell wrote...
JaegerBane wrote...
jdsbio1, I think the main flaw in your post is that you've glossed over a lot of the problems from both sides. You're absolutely correct that the hardcore 'fans' will recoil from any change percieved as 'streamlining' the genre and, inevitably, this will eventually result in them hating all new games in the genre. Similarly, the point about lack of actual choice in the game has merit.
That said, there's a number of problems on both sides that feed into the bigger issues here.
On Bioware's side, the general message that was coming out of the gaming public was that there were many changes that didn't seem tested or were there to accomplish a purpose. The removal of the spell combo system (virtually perfected in ME2), the repetition of areas, the redesign of certain races that no-one actually asked for, the token inclusion of characters for no real reason, the time warps that basically pad out the running of the story etc - they all seemed to feed into a general sense that Bioware didn't really seem to know what they wanted to do with DA2. *That* is where Bioware have painted themselves into a corner - as one review said, 'they've alienated their current audience to appease the audience they don't have', or words to that effect.
On the hardcore player's side, the big problem is that the pattern of responses on the forum over the last few years seems to have lurched towards the negative, rather than balanced. Unfortunately that can send out the wrong message to the devs and we end up with bad design decisions being made on the strength of false warnings. I very much doubt the decision to cut out any mako-esque sections from ME2 was made purely on the basis of whining, but I can think of several people on here (not naming any names - at least, people who appear to have the same name now as did ones before) who both p1ssed and moaned about mako sections back in the ME1 era and are now p1ssing and moaning about the lack of them in ME2. Same goes for Awakening - there were those who claimed it was totally rubbish and I've seen at least a few of the same characters no proclaiming that Awakening's design was better and the way to go.
It's a difficult picture to interpret. That said, a lot of the issues many of us have with DA2 are not down to preconceptions about the genre etc, but more mistakes that a company like Bioware, frankly, shouldn't be making.
100% agreed and that's the fact that's been annoying me while reading angry posts. Many features presented in DA2 were actually players requests and same goes on with Mass Effect. Sometimes it seems like ****ing for the sake of it. And all of it got tiresome. To be honest, one needs multiple playthroughs to see how much BW did put their efforts in making this story.
To be honest, I see myself pretty much spoiled gamer now... I am spoiled nowadays. 15 years ago I played Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate, NWN and I was mesmerized by those games. Then came Warcraft 2 and 3 and WoW, combat became faster, graphics became much better... Oh I loved KOTOR when it came out, being able to fight as dual-wielding jedi weapon master was thrilling and the story was good... and then Mass Effect came out and everything changed for me. I just can't go back to older ways. DA:O was awesome but I hated blighted Deep Roads and everything in Orzammar, was too slow, lasted an eternity. But in the same time I loved it, that was something that brought new foundations for me and my preferences when it comes to good game.
With ME2 it went even further - and I'm still grateful for removing stupid mako and endlessly boring and look-a-like maps. I don't mind being rail-roaded as a player when it comes to quests - after Mankirk's wife in Vanilla WoW and some hidden bits and bobs in KOTOR or DA:O, it is welcomed by me... finally I don't need to alt-tab and read guides to see if I missed something important just for noticing 'some small black patch on the floor in some obscure corner'.
DA2 brought something else that was actually answer and catering to those that were screaming on Mass Effect forums - paragon/renegade and the fact that renegade will get punished for occasional diplomatic solutions if there's not ME1 import (counting bloody points along with counting paragon/renegade major decisions). With DA2 we got double system that actually works - 1st takes in account how player determined his character will be when it comes to personality - nice one, witty one or bad-ass and according to that Hawke will have unique dialogue options plus unique automatic responses or reactions, but that's not all. Bad-ass can actually be a true hero, honest person that does good, and bad-ass can be moraly suspicious or just one that wants to survive. Same goes for other two models too... if you're kind Hawke, it doesn't mean that your kindness will actually be honest one, it doesn't mean that Hawke will be a hero. And there's friendship/rivalry system as a bonus (KOTOR 2 all over again and I hated that then 'cause I never knew which combination of npcs to take with me and whom to take with me to actually get what I need to make 'em jedis or siths - too many hours of playing and reloading spent there lol). Tho DA2 took it further, their reactions are not that predictable as one might think. So, in whole, I really can't understand all this whining about DA2. They listened to players, they experimented and took the risk for introducing something new and honestly, I can't understand how can anyone be so determined to judge so harshly without actually seeing this game entirely. I understand when someone stops playing and says - this is not my cup of tea - but after reading so many angry posts here I realised that many of them didn't even see so many aspects this game offers and keep talking about it like they played it in its full length. As I said - it became tiresome.
Bah, again long post... like it matters...
Okay, first, I never pissed and moaned about DAO, or Awakenings. I never had a reason to (even with the bugs). You are welcome to go see my posts on the DAO forum and what I post is fanfiction, I have a 98 chapters and counting fanfic that is AU after the Blight. And if that doesn't speak to DAO being a good game and inspiring I don't know what does. I also post on other's fanfics there. That is about the extent of my posting on DAO forums. Does that make my ****ing more relevent now?
DA2 I have finished once. Hubby has 1.5 playthroughs, I watched his, aggressive Hawke playthrough, and I never could play the 'jerk" in DAO but in DA2 it has had its teeth pulled so much I could play the aggressive nasty Hawke (who isn't that jerky). I have one playthrough, but I had to go back and erase other saves and try again half way throug Act 3 to 'fix" a choice I didn't like. I am really not getting the nuance that most who like DA2 get. So what if you choose aggressive Hawke like my husband all the way through (very rarely picking snarky or nice). It didn't change anything, really. Yes, some cut away scenes might have been "aggressive" and there was one time, oooh one, where he didn't get to choose a diplomatic solution on the convo wheel. Big bleedin' whoop. I am not getting the aggressive/ nice hooker (sorry I couldn't resist the joke) Hawke with the heart of gold. There is just soooo much nuance in this game it has nuanced itself right out from under my nose ( and I cut my teeth reading Sherlock Holmes who believed in observation).
As to combat, I love the new animations for mages (no more poking the air with a stick), and the animations for rogues. The two handers and sword and board need to be put back to a little slower swing time, the "I am not wearing cardboard armor and have a wooden sword, but heavy metal armor and steel sword speed. Love archers using their bows as a weapon in close combat, finally, and nice animations too. And if they could set the combat speed betwen DAO and DA2 I thnk that would be more realistic. No more blood filled balloon enemies and the finishing moves brought back, nix the endless waves of bad guys (teleportation for enemy mages/not unless my mage gets to do it..so no, falling from ceilings or tops of buildings, etc..no), and by Maferath's balls, no more bosses from MMORPGs (ie. hunormous hit points and nothing else...that spells t-e-d-i-u-m children, can you say that word, I knew that you could)! See, I can comprimise. Oh one thing not comprimising...tactical camera back, m'kay, thanx.
As to Alt tabbing to see if you missed something...sorry that is part of an RPG experience to me. If I missed something I can read wiki, or find it my next play through. So many things I missed my first play through on DAO, it didn't frustrate me, rather it kept surprising me and giving me "aw cool!" moments many many play throughs later. Missing something would only be painful for me on DA2 with the recycled dungeons and the map of the Wounded Coast I had to fill in every time I went into a new act....
. I am dreading a second playthrough, but I want to play as a mage. I doubt I shall finish it. I even wonder if I will finish it on my rogue. Seriously, it is more fun to look for you tube videos of what I might have missed. The game is a chore filled with chores. Running from arrow to arrow (like a stupid MMORPG, yes I am a player...EverCrack, Dark Ages of Camelot, Heros & Villains, WoW) makes it worse. And the phone it in quests (my favorite example being the dwarf with torn pants) that somehow I magically know where they go, and to whom they belong. No story needed...just add water and a big floating golden arrow, voila..instant quest! I will gladly take running through every dungeon with my pinkie on the tab button any day than that tripe. 
There are things I liked about DA2 but for the most part they just gutted everything that made DAO wonderful, and fixed what wasn't broken about it, and broke what worked. I didn't want ME in DA drag, or Jade Empire in DA drag for that matter. If I want to play those games, I will. I play DA, for DA, and while some changes are to be expected, even anticipated (fixing combat speed a bit, etc) the wholesale crapping into the shelled husk of DAO and then putting a bow on it and handing it to me for $60 bucks? Hmmm, not really cool.
Retour en haut
the choice had no effect on the outcome.
