292 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

cpmd4 wrote...

I think people need to look at the game as it is, not what you wanted it to be. That's where everyone is going wrong. It's not going to be the game you want it to be, no game will unless you design it yourself. Maybe it's not as good as Origins in every way, but why does it have to surpass such a brilliant game to be good? Hint: It doesn't.

Translation:  expect  a turd, so you won't be disappointed when you get one.   Wonderful logic.     One that conveniently places the blame on *us* for not enjoying an intentionally gimped  effort.   (it's our fault for not loving  the mindnumbingly tedius recycled maps.  It's our fault for not being impressed with the dumbed down character creation system which is filled with so many restrictions so as to be completely stale  after  just a couple of playthroughs) It also Requires us  to ignore  more than a *decade* long track record  of  a prolific big-name gaming company m(bioware) which has never failed (until now) to put out a great game.


No sale.

Where I come from, if  a game is only good when you  ignore the past, ignore all context, ignore every other game you've ever played, and every other game Bioware's ever made, then chances are, the game   is NOT  GOOD.  Because a *good* game  is one that  still shines  even in the face of high expectations and comparisons.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 avril 2011 - 10:41 .

[Johnsen1972]

Im at the phase that I will not buy anything regarding DA2 license anymore. no DLC's no DA3. The Dragon Age License is dead for me, until they change the head of the DA2 team Mike Lollawl. Will still buy ME3 and all ME related DLC's.

[Willybot]

Zipped straight to the "Boy am I glad I rented it through Gamefly and didnt drop $60 to be dissatisified" acceptance stage.

[joshy_boy]

DA2 hit me hard. Right in the face. Completely disappointed. Now that some time has passed and I've reinstalled it to complete it, I've just come to accept it for what it is. Just started a new play through tonight with the 1.02 patch. Hopefully the patch will alleviate the stress of some game breaking bugs and allow me to enjoy it. I hope.

[Weiser_Cain]

Happy. I didn't like what I saw and thankfully a lot of you didn't either. Now bioware can move away from the direction they were going in to something I will hopefully like.

[9999dmg]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Im at the phase that I will not buy anything regarding DA2 license anymore. no DLC's no DA3. The Dragon Age License is dead for me, until they change the head of the DA2 team Mike Lollawl. Will still buy ME3 and all ME related DLC's.

Mass Effect 3 is actually the last Bioware game I intend on buying.  This isn't to say Old Republic showed any promise to begin with...

[Stratgtar565]

I didn't expect anything like DA:O, but I still expected an amazing game that I promised myself I wouldn't compare to the original. I succeeded in judging the game on its own and not as a DA game, but I still didn't like it. I've accepted it and am currently installing many mods that make the game a LOT better. Then I go and wait in my corner for ME3.

[Weiser_Cain]

9999dmg wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Im at the phase that I will not buy anything regarding DA2 license anymore. no DLC's no DA3. The Dragon Age License is dead for me, until they change the head of the DA2 team Mike Lollawl. Will still buy ME3 and all ME related DLC's.

Mass Effect 3 is actually the last Bioware game I intend on buying.  This isn't to say Old Republic showed any promise to begin with...

Funny, it was the early stuff that turned me off from TOR. Pringles can lightsabers and doofy/cartoony looking characters.

I'm not going to write off bioware yet, but I am going to be careful about just buying their games impulsively. It's not like there are a lot of rpg makers out there.

Modifié par Weiser_Cain, 13 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[TaHol]

Obviously acceptance. I have accepted the game is trash, and I moved on to better games (Assassins Creed Brotherhood. BioWare-devs should too, if only to see how a city is made). For some strange reason I find myself reading this forum still.

[Mrbananagrabber]

Let me hack my own thread if you guys would allow me, and ask those who are indeed in the cycle this question:

How can we help things get better? How can we make EA/Bioware understand our point of view. Ranting on this forum will do absolutely nothing in the grand schemes of things (looking forward to having naysayers quote me on this). Regardless if it's a vocal minority or just a majority of apathic people who just moved on after the deception, how can we make our voices heard?

-Send EA emails?
-Call their customer service?

Believe me, I fully realize EA has it's share of guilt in this fiasco, but I also believe that the new direction (Mr Laidlaw being the major culprit) is to blame for this. He's the one who came out with the idea to make everything ''awesome'' and streamlined. As if that wasn't enough, I think we can agree his arrogant attitude towards the fanbase is unfit of the quality of the later, Bioware fans have always been supportive, appreciative and knowledgeable about the market and don't deserve to be treated like fair weather kids who don't know better than to question the absolute truth of his gospel.

I know from being a business grad that the client's voice is ALWAYS important, and the word of mouth of 10 clients with a positive experience will be negated by only one unpleased client. As such, I believe it's completely possible to make our voices heard and change the tangent the company is taking.

If all else fails, then I'm willing to leave this forum and forget about my favorite company from now on. But I'm not yet going down without a fight. I have NEVER, ever written to a game developper before, I've never ranted on any forum about a game before. Then again, a game has never disappointed me so much, it actually feels like a good friend stabbed me in the back.

PS: MrTijger, if all you're going to add to this conversation is calling people nerds or telling us how stupid we are, then please feel free to not post in this particular thread. I assure you, the rest of the forum, heck the rest of the internet is yours for the taking.

[F-C]

all i know is people who think this game was bad should try playing 'phantom ops : shadow harvest'.

i believe its going for worst game ive played in years.

[Xaltar81]

Wow this is still going on? I am on the "moved on" step. I will say that, in a way, I'm glad that DA2 sucked so bad, it has forced me to start work on a project of my own that I have been putting off for over a year now. Every company has its good and bad titles and while Bioware were largely able to avoid bad titles for most of thier existance they are no longer the masters of their own development schedule or project design. While yes, they likely still have some autonomy they no longer set the course. If you want to see them return to making games we enjoy then the only way to achieve this is to show EA that they need to let Bioware decide what to do with their titles and not interfere with the development with stupid "focus groups" and other BS numbers. Statistics really do not belong in good game development, statistics are for sports games, sims and other repetative titles that EA are so good at. Creativity is what is needed in a franchise like DA, not statistics like 60% of the people in our focus group felt there was too much dialogue in DA:O, what they neglect to mention is that of thier focus group only about 10% were actually RPG fans, the rest were all first person shooter and sports game fans..... Speculation obviously, so don't go asking for where I got my info

Basicly EA listens to numbers, if enough of those pile up against a title then they tend to ****** up thier ears and listen, otherwise you were just within that 10% acceptable losses catagory.

I have little doubt that Bioware itself has been corrupted by EA's influence aswell but we have to be aware that game development is a business and these guys work for money, in a time of crisis artistry often is forced into the back seat in favor of quick profit. Now I am not blaming the economy for DA2 but I am aware that it likely did play a part in its design. I have faith in the guys at Bioware, there are still a great deal of tallented and creative minds involved but I do believe that the Bioware we once could swear by is no more, this is a new era, lets hope it will not last long before yet another era dawns and the best of both eras can be combined into one that will satisfy both the need for profit and the demands of the fans.

End ramble....

Modifié par Xaltar81, 13 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[daemon1129]

On the verge of becoming a pirate.

[Shadowbanner]

Mrbananagrabber wrote...

You know, denial, anger, acceptance.

I know a lot of you guys were in the Denial phase before the game came out (look at all those funny necroposts!) and after the first few weeks, then I've seen a lot of you join me in the Anger phase. Some are even in the Bargaining phase, no wait thats Bioware giving free games for this one...Do you guys think we'll reach acceptance soon, that Bioware is a necrotized zombie and the RPG legacy they championed during their life is gone? If we support each other we can get through that Depression stage before the Acceptance without destroying our lives...I believe in us.

Acceptance after raging over the last weeks.

To enjoy DA2 you have to completely forget DA:O and that it's a sequel to a great RPG. You have to play it as if it were a completely new franchise made by someone else other than BioWare. Only then can you enjoy it and forget all its flaws and shortcomings compared to DA:O masterpiece.

[MrTijger]

Mrbananagrabber wrote...

PS: MrTijger, if all you're going to add to this conversation is calling people nerds or telling us how stupid we are, then please feel free to not post in this particular thread. I assure you, the rest of the forum, heck the rest of the internet is yours for the taking.

 
First, Voice of the customer is a method to capture customer expectations BEFORE engaging in a project not AFTER. Bioware followed that method probably, they also managed expectations by providing extensive information, a demo and even a movie with nearly an hours worth of game footage. Apparently you chose to ignore all the information provided and then chose to enter into a state of grief. I find that utterly pathetic.

Second, do both, be sure to mention that you are in a 'grief cycle', at least then you'll give some poor CR a bit of comic relief and brighten his or her day.

If you have a problem with my posts then may I suggest contacting a mod and getting their opinion?

Grief cycle over a game...the lunacy never ends, it seems

Modifié par MrTijger, 13 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[xkg]

@ MrTijger

Why do u exactly need to come here and tell people how much "retarded/grieving/etc" they are.
This is Dragon Age 2 forum so talking (bad/good) about game is what this forum is for

If you want to discuss about "peeps grieving about their games" - here it  isnt right place

[Xaltar81]

Its a sad fact but there are a lot of people who do get depressed over games. More to the point, they get depressed "more" becuase of games. For a lot of people the anticipation of a game that you think you will enjoy is a good way to stave off depression, at least for a while. When said game comes out and is utterly dissapointing, these people do genuinely suffer from grief. While this is not healthy it is certainly not something that one should insult. Depression is a difficult thing to deal with and not something that should be mocked. Also worth noting, depresive people tend to also suffer from denial, not wanting to beleive, dispite all evidence to the contrary, that something they were looking forward to will not live up to their expectations. People have to understand and show some lenience for the many people who try to lift their spirits in a virtual world when reality is not giving them a break. So please, don't come in hear posting that people are stupid for getting hung up on a game, just because you don't care does not make other people stupid.

[Joush]

I'm in the "canceled ME3 preorder and telling everybody I know to buy Bioware games used, cheap and when a patch is released, 3 months after release or so" stage.

At first, I was only saying a month or two, but Bioware successfully proved that to be insanely optimistic, with all signs pointing to no patch for at least a month and a half. Bioware's market, all of it, is hardcore players. These are people that are passionate about games and can get very pissed when promises are broken and things are a mess.

[Yrkoon]

MrTijger wrote...
 
First, Voice of the customer is a method to capture customer expectations BEFORE engaging in a project not AFTER.

What?  That's not true at all.

The Voice of a Customer, also known as consumer feedback is an  equally valuable tool often used by a company  both before the creation of a product and after.

And in this case,  the "after" is even more relevant, since the DA franchise is  still an ongoing thing.


And on a minor sidenote:

Joush wrote...

I'm in the "canceled ME3 preorder and telling everybody I know to buy Bioware games used, cheap and when a patch is released, 3 months after release or so" stage.

At first, I was only saying a month or two, but Bioware successfully proved that to be insanely optimistic, with all signs pointing to no patch for at least a month and a half. 

Er... Patch 1.02 has already been released.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[MrTijger]

Yrkoon wrote...

MrTijger wrote...
 
First, Voice of the customer is a method to capture customer expectations BEFORE engaging in a project not AFTER.

What?  That's not true at all.

The Voice of a Customer, also known as consumer feedback is an  equally valuable tool often used by a company  both before the creation of a product and after.

Sorry, but I have to disagree, its also not Voice of a Customer but of THE Customer. Perhaps you dont realise that this is part of several project methodologies both in IT (ITIL) and outside IT (Lean, Six Sigma). I'll be happy to provide you links to them.

What you are referring to is customer feedback which is not the same thing.

[MrTijger]

Xaltar81 wrote...

Its a sad fact but there are a lot of people who do get depressed over games. More to the point, they get depressed "more" becuase of games. For a lot of people the anticipation of a game that you think you will enjoy is a good way to stave off depression, at least for a while. When said game comes out and is utterly dissapointing, these people do genuinely suffer from grief. While this is not healthy it is certainly not something that one should insult. Depression is a difficult thing to deal with and not something that should be mocked. Also worth noting, depresive people tend to also suffer from denial, not wanting to beleive, dispite all evidence to the contrary, that something they were looking forward to will not live up to their expectations. People have to understand and show some lenience for the many people who try to lift their spirits in a virtual world when reality is not giving them a break. So please, don't come in hear posting that people are stupid for getting hung up on a game, just because you don't care does not make other people stupid.

Nice. Nobody was called stupid by me, thats your invention. I called people who grieve over a game a nerd with misplaced emotional attachment.

Second, Depression is a mental illness, now...call me crazy or even stupid but you just identified people as suffering from a mental illness when all I did was call them a nerd....ummm....the logic kinda fails me here, do explain?

And again with the assumptions and ascribing me with values I've never given any basis for. Let me clarify, I do care about the game however, I happen to believe that investing such emotions into a game is unhealthy but then, you pretty much spelled that out yourself.

[Yrkoon]

MrTijger wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

MrTijger wrote...
 
First, Voice of the customer is a method to capture customer expectations BEFORE engaging in a project not AFTER.

What?  That's not true at all.

The Voice of a Customer, also known as consumer feedback is an  equally valuable tool often used by a company  both before the creation of a product and after.

Sorry, but I have to disagree,

I'm not stating an opinion.    Go grab a dictionary and look up the word feedback, then come back and I'll give you a list of changes made to DA:O based on customer feedback  as stated by the developers themselves.

Or Hell, save yourself the  time and embarassment and just  explain to us how (and why) sequels exist.
 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[xkg]

MrTijger wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

Its a sad fact but there are a lot of people who do get depressed over games. More to the point, they get depressed "more" becuase of games. For a lot of people the anticipation of a game that you think you will enjoy is a good way to stave off depression, at least for a while. When said game comes out and is utterly dissapointing, these people do genuinely suffer from grief. While this is not healthy it is certainly not something that one should insult. Depression is a difficult thing to deal with and not something that should be mocked. Also worth noting, depresive people tend to also suffer from denial, not wanting to beleive, dispite all evidence to the contrary, that something they were looking forward to will not live up to their expectations. People have to understand and show some lenience for the many people who try to lift their spirits in a virtual world when reality is not giving them a break. So please, don't come in hear posting that people are stupid for getting hung up on a game, just because you don't care does not make other people stupid.

Nice. Nobody was called stupid by me, thats your invention. I called people who grieve over a game a nerd with misplaced emotional attachment.

Second, Depression is a mental illness, now...call me crazy or even stupid but you just identified people as suffering from a mental illness when all I did was call them a nerd....ummm....the logic kinda fails me here, do explain?

And again with the assumptions and ascribing me with values I've never given any basis for. Let me clarify, I do care about the game however, I happen to believe that investing such emotions into a game is unhealthy but then, you pretty much spelled that out yourself.

quite interesting really - i was looking into medical dictionaries and none of them mention it as a ILLNES
here is for example what i found

Depression
  a mental state of altered mood characterized by feelings of sadness, despair, and discouragement

You know reading doesnt hurt go try it

[MrTijger]

Yrkoon wrote...

I'm not stating an opinion.    Go grab a dictionary and look up the word feedback, then come back and I'll give you a list of changes made to DA:O based on customer feedback  as stated by the developers themselves.
 

*sigh* No, you are indicating you dont know what Voice of the customer is and it is NOT feedback.

http://en.wikipedia....of_the_customer

I'll repeat it again, Voice of the Customer is a project methodology.

Modifié par MrTijger, 13 avril 2011 - 11:14 .

[Yrkoon]

xkg wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

Xaltar81 wrote...

Its a sad fact but there are a lot of people who do get depressed over games. More to the point, they get depressed "more" becuase of games. For a lot of people the anticipation of a game that you think you will enjoy is a good way to stave off depression, at least for a while. When said game comes out and is utterly dissapointing, these people do genuinely suffer from grief. While this is not healthy it is certainly not something that one should insult. Depression is a difficult thing to deal with and not something that should be mocked. Also worth noting, depresive people tend to also suffer from denial, not wanting to beleive, dispite all evidence to the contrary, that something they were looking forward to will not live up to their expectations. People have to understand and show some lenience for the many people who try to lift their spirits in a virtual world when reality is not giving them a break. So please, don't come in hear posting that people are stupid for getting hung up on a game, just because you don't care does not make other people stupid.

Nice. Nobody was called stupid by me, thats your invention. I called people who grieve over a game a nerd with misplaced emotional attachment.

Second, Depression is a mental illness, now...call me crazy or even stupid but you just identified people as suffering from a mental illness when all I did was call them a nerd....ummm....the logic kinda fails me here, do explain?

And again with the assumptions and ascribing me with values I've never given any basis for. Let me clarify, I do care about the game however, I happen to believe that investing such emotions into a game is unhealthy but then, you pretty much spelled that out yourself.

quite interesting really - i was looking into medical dictionaries and none of them mention it as a ILLNES
here is for example what i found

Depression
  a mental state of altered mood characterized by feelings of sadness, despair, and discouragement

You know reading doesnt hurt go try it

^not only that, but even manic depression, as a health condition, isn't a mental illness, it's a physical illness (a chemical imbalance, to be precise)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 avril 2011 - 11:18 .