93 réponses à ce sujet

[MCPOWill]

 I've encountered many references to a person named Fiona and her relations with King Maric. Is she from the novels or is it just me not reading through the codexes thoroughly enough?

[Torax]

She was an Elven Mage Warden yes.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fiona

As you read it. Don't bother speculating that she is Alistair's mother. David Gaider already said that the ages do not match up for that to be true.

Modifié par Torax, 11 avril 2011 - 10:34 .

[Addai]

Fiona is a five-foot heap of certified elven awesome. DA3 can be an utter crap game, but if Fiona swoops in on a griffon to save the day, it's all good.

And, where in the world did Gaider say that the ages don't match for it to be true that she's Alistair's mother? It's rather the other way around- the ages as originally printed in The Calling don't match, but Gaider's correction of them puts Alistair right in line for elven blood. Just sayin'. 

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[MCPOWill]

Except we know that Alistair's mom was a servant girl that was also Maric's mistress for a bit.

[Addai]

MCPOWill wrote...

Except we know that Alistair's mom was a servant girl that was also Maric's mistress for a bit.

No, we don't "know" that.  Since this was also the story that Fiona wanted her son to be told (i.e. that his mother was a human and dead)...

[Deified Data]

Judging by the likes of Feynriel, we also no that Alistair is not half-elven.

[MCPOWill]

...So in other words there is ANOTHER bastard child of Maric. For such a noble fella he sure slept around a lot.

Also what about Goldanna? She is Alistair's sister who knew that Alistair was the product of her mother and Maric's union, and Arl Eamon knew that Alistair was the son of servant girl and not some Grey Warden. I mean if Gaider is lying  to us to keep some plot twist secret in an upcoming DA game or DLC, I see no reason for him to outright lie like this.

Modifié par MCPOWill, 11 avril 2011 - 10:59 .

[Blackout62]

Deified Data wrote...

Judging by the likes of Feynriel, we also no that Alistair is not half-elven.

No, I'm pretty sure that's just Feynriel being young, creepy, pale, and squinty.

[TobiTobsen]

Deified Data wrote...

Judging by the likes of Feynriel, we also no that Alistair is not half-elven.

How do we know that? You mean because of Feynriels looks?

[Torax]

Alistair is about 4-5 years too old to be the child. Gaider said on this forum not that long ago that they do not match up. It would take a while to find it.

[Deified Data]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

Judging by the likes of Feynriel, we also no that Alistair is not half-elven.

How do we know that? You mean because of Feynriels looks?

Feynriel is distinctly bi-racial, while Alistair is all-human. Feynriel's elven features include his fair complexion, narrow features, and prominent ears. Alistair just looks like...Alistair.

[Addai]

MCPOWill wrote...

...So in other words there is ANOTHER bastard child of Maric. For such a noble fella he sure slept around a lot.

Not really.  He had two affairs, but his was an arranged marriage and as far as we know he was faithful to his queen while they were married.  Alistair was born after she died.  Meanwhile, he really cared for his wife.  The Calling opens with him so despondent over her death that he's a broken-down mess.

There are different theories about Goldanna, but mine is that she was paid to tell a story and there was never a serving maid at all.  When Alistair walks in with his fancy armor and princely good looks, she hears the gravy train whistling again.  choo choo, chugga chugga  Note the significance of her name, Goldanna.

Re looks:  Slim Couldry is also elf blooded, so you can't really go by looks.  Feynriel just got good genes.  And Alistair, too, of course.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[Merced652]

This is why you don't write books to supplement game lore. Or maybe this is just a case for why you remain consistent.

[Addai]

Torax wrote...

Alistair is about 4-5 years too old to be the child. Gaider said on this forum not that long ago that they do not match up. It would take a while to find it.

Er... I would be very interested to see that.  Alistair is early 20's, Cailan around 25, which puts them both right at the ages they would be to fit Gaider's corrected timeline.

[TobiTobsen]

Deified Data wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

Judging by the likes of Feynriel, we also no that Alistair is not half-elven.

How do we know that? You mean because of Feynriels looks?

Feynriel is distinctly bi-racial, while Alistair is all-human. Feynriel's elven features include his fair complexion, narrow features, and prominent ears. Alistair just looks like...Alistair.

To me Feynriel just looks like a slim human. Even Danarius ears are more pointy then Feynriels  And I always like to remember people of Slim Couldry, the guy in Denerim who gave you the thief quests. And he didn't really looked like an elf, but was, just like Feynriel, an elf-blooded human.

http://dragonage.wik...ki/Slim_Couldry

[Addai]

Merced652 wrote...

This is why you don't write books to supplement game lore. Or maybe this is just a case for why you remain consistent.

Hush!  The game novels are awesome.  There are minor inconsistencies, but they really add to the story.

The biggest snafu is that Loghain seems to refer to Rowan being alive when Alistair was born.  He could be mistaken, or else it's a holdover from when Alistair was originally intended to be an older, seasoned type.

[dantares83]

so David Gaider confirmed that Fiona is not Alistair's mother? But I thought the timeline has always been kind of "messed up".

From the novels, I just can't see Maric to be one who sleeps around... while the Queen is still alive...

[Torax]

Addai67 wrote...

Torax wrote...

Alistair is about 4-5 years too old to be the child. Gaider said on this forum not that long ago that they do not match up. It would take a while to find it.

Er... I would be very interested to see that.  Alistair is early 20's, Cailan around 25, which puts them both right at the ages they would be to fit Gaider's corrected timeline.

David Gaider wrote...

Amagoi wrote...
Also about Fiona and Alistair, I don't think David ever confirmed or denied. The most he said was that the timeline for the books and the game were slightly off due to an editing mistake.

That would be correct.

Keep in mind that the book being say 14 years after the deep roads run in TST. That makes it harder to stomach being the same child. In the end it doesn't greatly change the story and does leave a loop hole for a possible mage child somewhere else.

Plus the whole having the death of a servant on your hands to keep the secret alive. Also knowing you are taking this person you're supposedly taking care of and having them drink the taint which is possibly fatale. I mean he could have murdered his charge by having him be a warden over a templar. Just saying.

Modifié par Torax, 11 avril 2011 - 11:36 .

[Amagoi]

Torax wrote...

She was an Elven Mage Warden yes.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fiona

As you read it. Don't bother speculating that she is Alistair's mother. David Gaider already said that the ages do not match up for that to be true.

David only said the timeline for the books is off due to editing mistakes. The Fiona could still be Alistair's mother, or she could be the mother of a third Maricspawn. We have no information either way.

[Addai]

Torax wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Torax wrote...

Alistair is about 4-5 years too old to be the child. Gaider said on this forum not that long ago that they do not match up. It would take a while to find it.

Er... I would be very interested to see that.  Alistair is early 20's, Cailan around 25, which puts them both right at the ages they would be to fit Gaider's corrected timeline.

David Gaider wrote...

Amagoi wrote...
Also about Fiona and Alistair, I don't think David ever confirmed or denied. The most he said was that the timeline for the books and the game were slightly off due to an editing mistake.

That would be correct.

Keep in mind that the book being say 14 years after the deep roads run in TST. That makes it harder to stomach being the same child. In the end it doesn't greatly change the story and does leave a loop hole for a possible mage child somewhere else.

Plus the whole having the death of a servant on your hands to keep the secret alive. Also knowing you are taking this person you're supposedly taking care of and having them drink the taint which is possibly fatale. I mean he could have murdered his charge by having him be a warden over a templar. Just saying.

Right, because the original timeline of The Calling had Cailan as being nine years old which would have made Fionaspawn five years too old to be Alistair.  It was later corrected that Cailan was five, so like I said, the correction was in favor of Alistair=Fionaspawn and not the other way round.

Naturally, Gaider could change his mind or Maric could have gone on a drunken bender while visiting Eamon shortly before the events of The Calling.

As I said above, my theory is that there was no maid at all and thus no need to kill off anyone.  It's also possible that there was a maid who died in childbirth and she was "borrowed" as cover for Alistair's birth.  Not sure what you mean about Alistair becoming a Warden- that was after Maric's death.

[Addai]

dantares83 wrote...

so David Gaider confirmed that Fiona is not Alistair's mother? But I thought the timeline has always been kind of "messed up".

From the novels, I just can't see Maric to be one who sleeps around... while the Queen is still alive...

No, Gaider was confirming that he'd never said anything definitive one way or another.  It's still an open question.  He has said that we would find out what happened to Maric and Fiona, however, so I'm guessing we will find out.

*bites nails*

[mopotter]

I loved Fiona. She is one of the best characters in the book and it would be great to see her sometime. And Duncan as a young man, to see what he grew into. Just very interesting.

I couldn't find much by searching, but according to GameSpot David Gaider said this:
"If Alistair is that child, then the codex is either explaining what Alistair assumes about Eamon's reasoning (everything in the codex is what he "told" you, more or less, right?) or it could be an oversight -- if you prefer to believe that. Or there is another child, yes. You're free to speculate. " Of course they don't say when or where he said it so who knows if it's true. But it does sound vague enough to be something he'd say.

My personal feeling is that Alistair is not Fiona's child. I don't have a big problem seeing Meric have a fling with a maid. Rowan love Loghain. She was fond of Meric but I can easily see their relationship slowly going platonic once they have Alistair, especially when she started getting ill, I am sure Meric was very discreet, one reason the maid was from Redcliffe

His sister told people he was the kings and I don't think she could have been instructed to say it, kids tend to pop out the truth not what you want them to say. It sounds more like something she heard her mother say often. I also don't think Duncan would have let Alistair be sent to the Chantry to become a Templar. He was Fiona's friend more so than Meric and she was a Mage. Then there is the age difference and all that has been said in other places.

We won't really know positively either way until David and BioWare decide to end the mystery, but it's sure an interesting discussion topic.

[Boiny Bunny]

Addai67 wrote...

MCPOWill wrote...

Except we know that Alistair's mom was a servant girl that was also Maric's mistress for a bit.

No, we don't "know" that.  Since this was also the story that Fiona wanted her son to be told (i.e. that his mother was a human and dead)...

I haven't looked into it, but if he did make that comment about the ages not matching up, then what we "know" is that Gaider has made it clear that she is not Alistair's mother.  Whether or not this matchs in game lore is irrelevant.

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 12 avril 2011 - 12:24 .

[KJandrew]

Amagoi wrote...

Torax wrote...

She was an Elven Mage Warden yes.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fiona

As you read it. Don't bother speculating that she is Alistair's mother. David Gaider already said that the ages do not match up for that to be true.

David only said the timeline for the books is off due to editing mistakes. The Fiona could still be Alistair's mother, or she could be the mother of a third Maricspawn. We have no information either way.

Where did the other one come from?

[nightscrawl]

Deified Data wrote...
Feynriel is distinctly bi-racial, while Alistair is all-human. Feynriel's elven features include his fair complexion, narrow features, and prominent ears. Alistair just looks like...Alistair.

Because all bi-racial people always look the same? Not even all elves look the same. It's the way the genes roll. The most distinctive feature of Feynriel, and the most elven, is his nose which looks like a combination of the elven and human nose. Being fair complected certainly isn't the domain of elvhen, neither is a slight build. Certainly just within Merrill's clan (including herself) there are several dark haired elves. You also have no further to look for elven diversity than Fenris and his sister. They both have a very "Tivinter" appearance, but look different from each other (disregarding his white hair, which I think might be a product of the lyrium infusion).

Some of the appearance issues can be attributed to game design limitations. Whether the fault lies with the character designers, the game engine itself, or a lack of time for the developers. However, some of it will always boil down to video games, and the characters therein, never being able to equal the true diversity that we find in real life. Natural creation is unexpected, diverse, sometimes chaotic and horrifying. Game creation, indeed the creation of any animated/fake character will always be limited and confined to the people who make them. (I don't mean this as a bad/negative/critical thing, I think it's just a realistic statement.)

I'm not making an argument either way though, I'm still reading The Stolen Throne. Given all the speculation on these forums, it seems an interesting theory, but I'll have to wait and see for myself how it's all written out in The Calling.


[edit to add a thing about game novels...]

I also play World of Warcraft, which has a huge lore system and David Gaider's counterpart at Blizzard, Chris Metzin, is largely responsible for it. He wrote 1 warcraft novel himself, but almost all of the others (of which I've read several) have been written by established genre authors. If there is one thing I've learned from my experience with those novels versus the game world is that while novels are a great source of background information, even if they are "official" novels, nothing should be considered cannon unless it is the game itself. The game world, the world we interact with, is the last stop. David Gaider may have an entire world and history in his head, but not all of it can successfully be carried over into the game. Some of it maybe have to be left out, and some of it changed to compensate for it being an interactive world with different paths, rather than just a novel or movie that is passive.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 12 avril 2011 - 01:12 .