93 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

mopotter wrote...
My personal feeling is that Alistair is not Fiona's child. I don't have a big problem seeing Meric have a fling with a maid. Rowan love Loghain. She was fond of Meric but I can easily see their relationship slowly going platonic once they have Alistair, especially when she started getting ill, I am sure Meric was very discreet, one reason the maid was from Redcliffe

I think you mean Cailan, but it still seems really out of character.  If he had a platonic relationship to Rowan, why would he be so crushed by her death that he goes into seclusion for a lengthy period?  I guess guilt over an affair could have contributed to that, but it still leaves the timeline wrong.  A baby born during Rowan's lifetime would be older than Alistair.

His sister told people he was the kings and I don't think she could have been instructed to say it, kids tend to pop out the truth not what you want them to say. It sounds more like something she heard her mother say often.

She says that she was told about her mother and the baby, so it sounds like she was not present, perhaps sent out for service herself somewhere.

I also don't think Duncan would have let Alistair be sent to the Chantry to become a Templar. He was Fiona's friend more so than Meric and she was a Mage. Then there is the age difference and all that has been said in other places.

Yet all the more reason why he would recruit Alistair out of that life once he saw that he was unhappy with it, and had the capability and character to be a good Warden.

I'm not really sure why people are claiming there is an age discrepancy.  Cailan is five during the events of The Calling.  He is around 25 and Alistair is early 20s in Origins.  That means they are both the right ages for Alistair to be the baby in The Calling.  If he's not, then he was born very close to when Fiona's baby was born.  An odd line-up of coincidences.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 avril 2011 - 02:32 .

[Addai]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

MCPOWill wrote...

Except we know that Alistair's mom was a servant girl that was also Maric's mistress for a bit.

No, we don't "know" that.  Since this was also the story that Fiona wanted her son to be told (i.e. that his mother was a human and dead)...

I haven't looked into it, but if he did make that comment about the ages not matching up, then what we "know" is that Gaider has made it clear that she is not Alistair's mother.  Whether or not this matchs in game lore is irrelevant.

He didn't.  He only confirmed that he's never said definitively one way or another.

[Torax]

The Joining can kill you. It also makes your life span less. Why would Duncan willingly do that to the Child of a dead King & Fiona that went where ever. Would Duncan have more likely had Alistair contact his mother than make him a grey warden? Why that one part leaves some questions in regards to the baby. No where in that did Fiona say "Give my child the Taint."

[MCPOWill]

Now that I think about it, In the codex, it mentions Alistair having a deep love of magic, lore, and the item that are related to magic. Maybe it is a subconscious connection to Fiona.

Probably not.

...ya know wouldn't it be funny if Fiona's child was the protagonist of DA-III or another DA game?

[Addai]

Torax wrote...

The Joining can kill you. It also makes your life span less. Why would Duncan willingly do that to the Child of a dead King & Fiona that went where ever. Would Duncan have more likely had Alistair contact his mother than make him a grey warden? Why that one part leaves some questions in regards to the baby. No where in that did Fiona say "Give my child the Taint."

A Blight is coming.  That's really all the reason Duncan needed.

[Torax]

Addai67 wrote...

Torax wrote...

The Joining can kill you. It also makes your life span less. Why would Duncan willingly do that to the Child of a dead King & Fiona that went where ever. Would Duncan have more likely had Alistair contact his mother than make him a grey warden? Why that one part leaves some questions in regards to the baby. No where in that did Fiona say "Give my child the Taint."

A Blight is coming.  That's really all the reason Duncan needed.

Either way it's speculation on both our parts so it's not like this conversation goes anywhere.

[Suron]

MCPOWill wrote...

Except we know that Alistair's mom was a servant girl that was also Maric's mistress for a bit.

except that if you knew what you were talking about Fiona said she wanted the child to be told a story like that specifically.

face it everything points to Fiona being Alistairs mom.  In fact it would be stupid if she wasn't.

if you read both books, at NO POINT, does Maric come across as some woman chasing man-****.

in fact in the second book he's even neglecting Cailan because he's so upset over Rowan's death.

Maric having a fling with a servant girl makes no sense..and brings in at least a 3rd child of Maric's.

and I've never seen Gaider say the ages don't match up...I believe he said that about Katriel (or whatever or name was) or even Anders being a son maybe...but not about Alistair.  And as already said actually the ages match up almost perfectly.

or in short, at least have a clue before you chime in there champ....

no we haven't been told it directly but EVERYTHING adds up...from the age, to the "story" about his mom being a servant girl..especially when you match it with Maric's personality in the books.  Fiona is Alistair's mom..I'd be willing to bet on it.  And frankly if she's not then Gaider is a terrible writer.

Modifié par Suron, 12 avril 2011 - 03:09 .

[TheJist]

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

[Suron]

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

well then start smacking because, as I said, it wouldn't make sense for him not to be.

From (again) Maric's entire demeanor and characterization in the books..he's not the type to jump around from woman to woman...he was even neglecting his son Cailan because of his ex-wifes (rowan's) death.  To Fiona giving the child up and TELLING Maric she wanted the boy told some story to cover who his real mother is....to the timing...to Alistair being raised by Eamon (EXACTLY what Fiona said she wanted and Maric said he was going to do with the boy..send it to close family.) to Goldanna being "paid off" to disappear when told her mother was dead as was the child she birthed.

Not saying it's the greatest of stories..but it adds up almost perfectly and frankly makes more sense then him not being Fiona's son...and overall WORSE storytelling if he's not.

don't hurt yourself with those facepalms.

[stobie]

I want him to be half-elf, & I don't care what annoying mmo you bring into it. His mother is, for me, an elven mage-warden. I hope she's still around.

[Addai]

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

Maybe I should read some of those, too.  I don't like a lot of the contemporary fantasy I pick up.

[TheJist]

Suron wrote...

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

well then start smacking because, as I said, it wouldn't make sense for him not to be.

From (again) Maric's entire demeanor and characterization in the books..he's not the type to jump around from woman to woman...he was even neglecting his son Cailan because of his ex-wifes (rowan's) death.  To Fiona giving the child up and TELLING Maric she wanted the boy told some story to cover who his real mother is....to the timing...to Alistair being raised by Eamon (EXACTLY what Fiona said she wanted and Maric said he was going to do with the boy..send it to close family.) to Goldanna being "paid off" to disappear when told her mother was dead as was the child she birthed.

Not saying it's the greatest of stories..but it adds up almost perfectly and frankly makes more sense then him not being Fiona's son...and overall WORSE storytelling if he's not.

don't hurt yourself with those facepalms.

It would be as cliche as hell maybe we can be lucky and this never gets explained.

[Deztyn]

I really don't like the idea of a secondary source most people won't see taking precedence over the primary source everyone sees. There's nothing in Origins to suggest that Alistair's been fed a load of lies. And he even says that Maric cheated on his queen to make him. Alistair could have been lied to, but to think he doesn't know when he was born or when the queen died is silly.

Modifié par Deztyn, 12 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[dantares83]

i truly believe that Fiona is Alistair's mum.

I read the books only I have finished DAO (once) and right after I read the last line, my thoughts came exactly to "Fiona must be Alistair's mum" and started to google for answers but only to find out that David Gaider has never confirmed that...

From the books, Maric has always been a hero and I don't think he would fool around with a servant girl unless that servant girl happened to look like Katriel (his true love).

Furthermore, Fiona specially told Marric never to tell Alistair who's mother from and it is really easy to find a woman who dies from childbirth (together with the baby) and pretend it is Alistair...

[stobie]

TheJist wrote...

Suron wrote...

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

well then start smacking because, as I said, it wouldn't make sense for him not to be.

From (again) Maric's entire demeanor and characterization in the books..he's not the type to jump around from woman to woman...he was even neglecting his son Cailan because of his ex-wifes (rowan's) death.  To Fiona giving the child up and TELLING Maric she wanted the boy told some story to cover who his real mother is....to the timing...to Alistair being raised by Eamon (EXACTLY what Fiona said she wanted and Maric said he was going to do with the boy..send it to close family.) to Goldanna being "paid off" to disappear when told her mother was dead as was the child she birthed.

Not saying it's the greatest of stories..but it adds up almost perfectly and frankly makes more sense then him not being Fiona's son...and overall WORSE storytelling if he's not.

don't hurt yourself with those facepalms.

It would be as cliche as hell maybe we can be lucky and this never gets explained.

Oh, unlike being the love child of a serving wench!!!

[MCPOWill]

TheJist wrote...

Suron wrote...

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

well then start smacking because, as I said, it wouldn't make sense for him not to be.

From (again) Maric's entire demeanor and characterization in the books..he's not the type to jump around from woman to woman...he was even neglecting his son Cailan because of his ex-wifes (rowan's) death.  To Fiona giving the child up and TELLING Maric she wanted the boy told some story to cover who his real mother is....to the timing...to Alistair being raised by Eamon (EXACTLY what Fiona said she wanted and Maric said he was going to do with the boy..send it to close family.) to Goldanna being "paid off" to disappear when told her mother was dead as was the child she birthed.

Not saying it's the greatest of stories..but it adds up almost perfectly and frankly makes more sense then him not being Fiona's son...and overall WORSE storytelling if he's not.

don't hurt yourself with those facepalms.

It would be as cliche as hell maybe we can be lucky and this never gets explained.

To Suron - No it wouldn't be bad storytelling. Maric is the King, who is to say that he is wrong with sleeping around? Many a King have done it in the past. Also he could have been in love with Rowan, Fiona, Katrina, or whoever, it appears to me that he was easily seduced, because it sounds that he was "in love" with a lot of women. (Rowan don't sound to faithful to Maric if she had a fling with Loghain, like Arthur, Gwenaviere, and Lancelot)

So he has a second bastard half-elf, half-human baby. Alistair is very human, personally it'd be fun to play this bastard child. Look at all the oppurtunities there. True, it is cliche, but hey, spun right it could be good. Also just because the pieces look like they, don't mean they do. That is what people got to learn about Dragon Age, it filled with stories that are interwoven yet far reaching through distance and time. So if this child, like the Morrigan possible baby (OGB or not) aren't touched for awhile doesn't mean that it won't appear.

[Addai]

Deztyn wrote...

I really don't like the idea of a secondary source most people won't see taking precedence over the primary source everyone sees. There's nothing in Origins to suggest that Alistair's been fed a load of lies. And he even says that Maric cheated on his queen to make him. Alistair could have been lied to, but to think he doesn't know when he was born or when the queen died is silly.

  Methinks you are a bit confused.  Alistair never says a word about Rowan.  It's Loghain whose dialogue is a bit difficult to reconcile with Alistair's true age, since he seems to refer to Rowan being alive at his birth.  Which can't be true even Alistair isn't Fiona's baby, so either he's mistaken or speaking metaphorically of her memory.

And... the game novels aren't a "secondary source."  They're a primary source, written by the lead writer of the games.  I don't really care if people want to stipulate that the game takes precedence if there's a conflict.  That's not how I see it, especially since the game has limitations that imagination doesn't.  Not that there's much conflict anyway.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[Deztyn]

It's Alistair. He wasn't directly talking about Rowan, he was talking about Eamon. The exact quote escapes me, but I know it's when you tick him off at Eamon's Estate. (Something about being the brother of the woman his father cheated on.) I'd double check because I have multiple saves there but alas the website hates us all.

I know David wrote the books, but most people who play Origins haven't read them and never will. The game is the primary source, the books were written to support it. If nothing had been said about Alistair's mother, if it had been left vague or it was made clear that there were things being kept from us in the game that would be fine with me. But accepting Fiona as Alistair's mother requires ignoring what the game tells us and inventing a whole new story to make it fit.

Modifié par Deztyn, 12 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[nightscrawl]

Addai67 wrote...

TheJist wrote...

If Alistar really is her child I will face palm hard this sounds like something a warcraft writer would make up.

Maybe I should read some of those, too.  I don't like a lot of the contemporary fantasy I pick up.

Christie Golden for orcs and Arthas. Richard A. Knaak if you like elves and dragons and such.

[devilsgrin]

guys, just on the half-elven thing... there are NO HALF-ELVES IN THEDAS. There are elf-blooded HUMANS, but the Elf is bred out of them immediately. Its mentioned many times how mutable their blood-lines are - not to mention their racial characeristics as a whole - so once human blood comes in, the elf becomes like the non-asari partner in the Mass Effect universe... just there to randomise some genes. Feynriel's appearance seems to defy this standard in Thedas, but he still looks human to me. Just slimmer, and with slightly sharper features.

Alistair could easily be Fiona's son, and i personally, whether its currently confirmed or not, believe it to be the case, and will do until David Gaider confirms one way or the other - in writing, and definitively. What Goldanna was "told" means nothing. And remember, theres VERY little information that Alistair knows for fact about his mother, since "she died in childbirth." He even tells the warden, "thats what i was told" more than once... even he doubts.

Maric is also anything but a lecher, and most definitely NOT a drunken lecher who'd force himself on a serving girl. Its completely out of character for him to bed a nameless nobody drunk or not. Strong, vibrant women are the ones who call to him. Rowan was never his true love, but he did love her. If anything, at best they were dear friends who were forced into a marriage that both knew was the best thing for Fereldan. Maric knew Rowan loved Loghain. Rowan knew Maric worshipped Katriel - even though he killed her - (Personally, its at that moment, as Maric i would have banished Loghain from my sight forever, regardless of his heroic standing, and would not have granted him Gwaren - an Arling perhaps...but not a Terynir - at least once all the warring was done)

Modifié par devilsgrin, 12 avril 2011 - 12:49 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Doesn't Eamon say that Alistair was born while Rowan was still alive, and he kept Alistair at his estate to keep an eye on his king's son, and to make sure Rowan never found out?

[Mystique83]

Torax wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Torax wrote...

The Joining can kill you. It also makes your life span less. Why would Duncan willingly do that to the Child of a dead King & Fiona that went where ever. Would Duncan have more likely had Alistair contact his mother than make him a grey warden? Why that one part leaves some questions in regards to the baby. No where in that did Fiona say "Give my child the Taint."

A Blight is coming.  That's really all the reason Duncan needed.

Either way it's speculation on both our parts so it's not like this conversation goes anywhere.

I also believe Alistair to be Fiona's child. The timeline fits perfect (The calling is 20 years before
DAO, Cailan is 25 in DAO and 5 years old in the book/ Alistair is around 20) imo and it explains Alistair's interest in magical stuff.
It explains also why Duncan came to recruit him since he was not the best fighter of the Chantry as the „tomb of knowledge“ on the DA homepage stated.

Well, it all my speculation, as well, but I think Duncan recruited Alistair since he saw Alistair would
become a very desperate Templar. He was a good friend of Maric and Fiona and in „The Calling“ he promised them to take a look after the baby.
Before Alistair was forced to take his vows and becoming a true Templar and when the Blight was coming he
decided to make him a Warden to have a look after him and giving him a life he wanted. Alistair prayed to be the chosen one when Duncan came to recruit a Templar.
Also Fiona was cured during her pregnancy. She is the only Warden who will not be killed by the Taint and who will not endure the Callling. Maybe Duncan thought that point would be a chance Alistair would survive the Joinging.



I hope David Gaider will explain one day what happended to Fiona and if Alistair is truely her son.

Modifié par Mystique83, 12 avril 2011 - 02:25 .

[Addai]

Deztyn wrote...

It's Alistair. He wasn't directly talking about Rowan, he was talking about Eamon. The exact quote escapes me, but I know it's when you tick him off at Eamon's Estate. (Something about being the brother of the woman his father cheated on.) I'd double check because I have multiple saves there but alas the website hates us all.

Right, ok, I know the quote you're talking about.  I think it's in this video (I don't have audio at work so am going from memory.)  That has nothing to do with timeline.  He never says that Rowan was alive at the time, just that Eamon was her brother, which he still was even after she died.  (edit: I guess that you are referring to the fact that he says Maric cheated on Rowan- see below- if he is early 20's then he cannot be speaking about cheating on her while she was alive)

I know David wrote the books, but most people who play Origins haven't read them and never will. The game is the primary source, the books were written to support it. If nothing had been said about Alistair's mother, if it had been left vague or it was made clear that there were things being kept from us in the game that would be fine with me. But accepting Fiona as Alistair's mother requires ignoring what the game tells us and inventing a whole new story to make it fit.

The only thing you have to ignore is an offhand comment by a man who was no witness to Alistair's birth and whom Maric kept out of his son's life.  Loghain doesn't know Alistair.  Maric tried to conceal Fiona's child from him.  As I said, it's impossible to take Loghain's comment at face value because Alistair isn't old enough to have been born during Rowan's lifetime anyway.  So there's no conflict one way or another by accepting that Alistair is Fiona's son.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 avril 2011 - 02:53 .

[dantares83]

maybe one day Fiona will come back looking for her long-lost child...