16 réponses à ce sujet

[smooth_operator]

The bottom line is; I want Varric to pull that trigger just as fast as I do when I'm manually controlling him. I want Isabella to knife the crap out of an enemy as fast as I would If i was controller her and mashing that A button. Will auto attack fix this?

If I control Varric or Isabella I am doing hundreds of hp damage to enemies every second. If I let the CPU control them, they just shoot or attack whenever they feel like it, and the attack intervals are much slower. Fix this problem so that I can enjoy controlling my own main character more while my team does the damage that they're supposed to.

[Matt 2108]

Wha? I've never heard of or encountered this problem.

[smooth_operator]

All you have to do is look at the way cpu Isabella fights vs manual controlled Isabella. When I control her I am knifing the enemy so fast and then I hit with a backstab and combo talents. Isabella would never do this under auto attack or cpu tactics. Is that the way it should be? I can take control of Varric and pump and enemy full of bolts. Why then when the CPU takes control; varric shoots a bolt every couple of seconds, looks around. It's like you can see the CPU thinking about it's next move and on nightmare difficulty thats too indecisive for some of the battles.

[Matt 2108]

Gonna be honest, I've never encountered this. In fact, one of the ways I started to notice my rogue was attacking slowly from the thumbs up glitch was when I saw Isabela next to make slicing through bandits like nobody's business.

[jellobell]

Wouldn't that be more of an A.I. problem? From your OP it seems that it's not that they can't attack as fast as when you're controlling them, it's that they don't. Though I haven't really noticed, myself.

[smooth_operator]

All the characters are slow actually if not controlled manually. Take Fenris for example. If I control him manually I can do very quick slashes on enemies and move out of the way as they counter attack and almost never get hit. All of this happens very fast, but then I switch characters and Fenris goes back to being a bum. I only mention Isabella and Varric because those two can do the most damage if used properly. Isabella on my team is completely worthless without manual control. With manual control however she can take out the entire enemy field by herself, but not without significantly raising her threat level and everyone and their moms come after her. I'm still trying to build up her fortitude.

[EvilVonBek]

never noticed on the 360, though tbh I script my tactics as if it was a top-down chart for a program so it procs whenver possible.

and varric whenever I use him is an autofire maniac ( harmony +maxed speed plus speed bumps from his specialization ).

what will speed them both up is use enemy<type> > attack at the end of a ability chain

mine usually reads

1>4 health and surround procs
5>9 cluster and status procs
10>15 type/rank procs ( usually mage attacking and brand/mark on mages and bosses ) finishing enemy:nearest mage > attack
16>20 lowest health> abilities followed by enemy:lowest health > attack

means every time the ai processes the list it either attacks nearest mage or lowest health unless something procs either on condition or enough stamina left.

if you're not using tactic to attack on npcs then it's probably a conflict between your tactics list and the behaviour set causing it to bounce between two choices for the ai and rebound back and forth until a mob move swings it into one option prioritised

[Matt 2108]

So you're trying to say that Fenris or anyone else is getting a boost to attack speed when you manually control them? I find it really hard to believe no one else has noticed this.

[EvilVonBek]

Matt 2108 wrote...

So you're trying to say that Fenris or anyone else is getting a boost to attack speed when you manually control them? I find it really hard to believe no one else has noticed this.

nope, what it is sometimes the tactics sytem and the behaviour AIs clash and the character bounces between two targets as they both have balanced priority until either an npc or mob action knocks the balance one way or another. you'll see it sometimes even with a perfect tactics setup as the character hangs off attacking for a second or too then suddenly  swings back into the groove.

it's same as the occasional hangs you get in other games using AIs as it overprocesses to try and branch the decision tree properly with two evenly weighted options

[smooth_operator]

I set my tactics like a list of priorities. The first few tactics are all attack. I also have varric basic attack the lowest health or other long range enemies like archers or mages. His behavior was originally in ranged but then I switched to passive only because I thought he would avoid close quarter battle. Setting to aggressive will have him run off into a crowd of enemies and get slaughtered. I dont have too many tactics set because I do not want to overwhelm the CPU processing of decisions. It's bad enough that my heal tactics almost never kick in, like using health potions < 50% health. If you set it any lower than that they will die long before that tactic ever kicks in. Regardless though if there is a conflict with tactics and behaviors (I will check it out when I get home) he should still pump an enemy full of bolts as fast as I would whenever I choose "attack" from the radial dial menu and do not break from that until an enemy comes too close or he has enough stamina to execute an attack talent (part of his tactics). I wish it was that simple.

[smooth_operator]

Matt, I am saying that if you take control of Fenris you can quick slash and dodge away from enemies so fast and almost never get hit. You can even quick slash a group of 3-4 enemies and when you see the enemies in motion for a counter attack you can move out of the way and slash back really really fast. There is absolutely no tactic or cpu behavior that can fight this way. I wish there was a tactic for Isabella that I can say "knife this guy 10x and immediately jump to this and that talent". Tactics to me is just a really sloppy "IF then ELSE" programming chart, and I think EvilBonBek has a point that there may be conflicts going on, which is why I try to have a simplified tactics tree. Keep in mind though that some combat styles cannot be programmed into tactics like I mentioned for Fenris or even Isabella.

[EvilVonBek]

@SO : heal either 1st or 2nd. only thing above it should be evade/m,indblast/tremor etc. mine works fine on <25 on nightmare for tank and rogues. run <50 after heal/group heal on mages no matter since a solid backstab before flanking immunity will wipe them half the time. you always want the heals/surrounded to be the first thing checked for followed by clusters on ranged/mages followed by either buff/debuff ( if applicable) or CC, then worry about attacks.

and yup, ai will never replicate organic playstyles as decision weighting will always follow parity paths and not adaptive paths so the machine will follow tactics/behavior/default whereas a human will adapt to situatiuon and maybe do 4xatt for one run, then 2xatt/dodge for another, then 3 then 4 then 5 then 3 sets of 4 because the clustering / attacks vary

[smooth_operator]

I have Anders tactics set for group and individual heals, and again in the heat of battle where there is a ton going on it doesnt work out a lot of times. I have to switch to anders because he might be engaged or knocked down, maybe interrupted and I have to perform some type of action and then execute heals. I have every heal and revive there is. My main character is a spirit healer and I do most of healing and reviving manually. I have noticed when I set actions toward the bottom of the tactics menu it hardly ever takes effect and I think because if there are several conditions that are applicable toward the top of the list, then those will take priority over what is at the bottom.

I just want to comment also that I think mindblast is the most useless waste of a spell spot. Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong. I have seen other post where some actually use this spell with success. All it EVER does for me is knock down my own characters. I absolutely stay away from any automatic cluster attacks (will perform manually) because all it does is harm my own party.

[MonkeyLungs]

Maybe he has a turbo controller. The CPU seems to attack faster than I do. I can't mash fast enough to keep up with them. I'm guessing the CPU attacks at Max Attack Speed.

[smooth_operator]

MonkeyLungs that is funny. I assure you that I am not using a turbo controller. Not even my wired controller. It really seems like you guys are playing a different version of the game than I am. I wish I could show everybody what I'm talking about. The CPU cannot attack faster than I can manually. I do press the A button fast but thats all I'm doing. I really do wish the CPU would knife enemies with Isabella as fast as I do. I have damage headers enabled so I can see all the damage I'm doing. When I knife enemies with isabella you should see the stream of damage numbers rising above the enemy's head like smoke.

[Spanishcat]

This isn't a bug, and I'd say it isn't really a fault with AI, either. 'The CPU doesn't do exactly what I'd do, how I'd do it' isn't a fault - it's just that AI isn't psychic.


In my experience (and I only make certain tweaks to Tactics, because I find DA2's to be vastly more effective than DA:O's) Bella kicks ass, to the extent that when I ocassionaly flick to her to 'borrow' her all-killy-death-stab talent, it - along with every other talent - is already recharging. She chains abilities, and I don't see any issue with her default attack speed.

No matter how fast you bash A, the attack speed doesn't break a certain threshold. As such, the AI and myself attack at almost identical speeds (not taking into account stat modifiers).

[smooth_operator]

Well as I have mentioned before this isnt just about Isabella. This is about every character really. I am 100% sure without a single shred of doubt that Fenris cannot slash enemies with his sword via AI as fast as I can manually. I wish I could invite all of you to my house and show you whats going on. When the CPU attacks, you will notice pauses between each attack. With me its SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH SLASH constantly. The CPU does not do that. I wish I could bet money on this.