I also agree about the shield down invincibility..it is kinda stupid. I'd remove that in a heartbeat. However, I'd make the shields a little more durable in return.
Modifié par Kronner, 26 avril 2011 - 07:51 .
Modifié par Kronner, 26 avril 2011 - 07:51 .
Bozorgmehr wrote...
The ME2 system is too focused on 'shield lost' moments of invincibility; having two 1-point shields is worth more than having one 200 point shield. This doesn't make any sense and it ruins powers like Barrier, Fortification, GSB (a 12 second cd adds like 0.12 seconds before shields pop when taking heavy fire - WTF?); it's also key to what makes TA (Assault specifically), Energy Drain and Charge so powerful.
Bozorgmehr wrote...
Greatly reducing or completely removing those 'shields down' moments and replacing it by a system that's focused on how many health and shield points one has (without changing the time it takes for enemies to take Shep down) would be better imo. Then it actually matters if one receives a big shield boost instead of small one, it would also make passives, upgrades, armor and equipment boosting health and shields much more useful and interesting.
Remember this too is only a simple example, the real deal is not about shield-regen, cooldowns or whatever. It's about survivability. The whole health-shield thing is nothing more than a system or indicator that shows how long you have before getting killed. And to be more Vanguard specific; what matters is not if Charge does or doesn't have a shield-regen feature - what matters is that Vanguard have enough survivability to do the things they are meant to do.
Modifié par dbndzb, 29 avril 2011 - 01:21 .
dbndzb wrote...
Edit: One more thing, I think global cooldowns should stay. They allow us to use the power that's applicable, as opposed to the power that's cooled down. However, tech and biotics should operate on different cooldowns. This is especially important for sentinels; using your omni-tool shouldn't have any effect on biotics.
I think this could actually be a unique and interesting high level evolution to the Sentinels base class that actually fits well into the lore. There may well be balance problems with it, the sentinel already has the biggest cooldown bonus.lazuli wrote...
dbndzb wrote...
Edit: One more thing, I think global cooldowns should stay. They allow us to use the power that's applicable, as opposed to the power that's cooled down. However, tech and biotics should operate on different cooldowns. This is especially important for sentinels; using your omni-tool shouldn't have any effect on biotics.
It's not "especially important" for Sentinels, it's only important for Sentinels. No other class would benefit in any way, unless you include bonus power selection, which may not even be in ME3. Sentinels are the only class with access to both Tech and Biotic powers. The other hybrid classes have access to Tech or Biotic powers and Combat Powers.
While separating cooldowns in this regard might make sense from a lore perspective, it is a sloppy attempt at rectifying a gameplay problem that doesn't even exist.
Malanek999 wrote...
I think this could actually be a unique and interesting high level evolution to the Sentinels base class that actually fits well into the lore. There may well be balance problems with it, the sentinel already has the biggest cooldown bonus.lazuli wrote...
dbndzb wrote...
Edit: One more thing, I think global cooldowns should stay. They allow us to use the power that's applicable, as opposed to the power that's cooled down. However, tech and biotics should operate on different cooldowns. This is especially important for sentinels; using your omni-tool shouldn't have any effect on biotics.
It's not "especially important" for Sentinels, it's only important for Sentinels. No other class would benefit in any way, unless you include bonus power selection, which may not even be in ME3. Sentinels are the only class with access to both Tech and Biotic powers. The other hybrid classes have access to Tech or Biotic powers and Combat Powers.
While separating cooldowns in this regard might make sense from a lore perspective, it is a sloppy attempt at rectifying a gameplay problem that doesn't even exist.
dbndzb wrote...
I suppose I should have qualified a little more. I think doing this would allow the devs to balance out the problems with tech armor. If we separate the cooldowns, tech armor could only benefit from upgrades; i.e. keep the 12 second cooldown but allow the use of the offensive biotics... Might help with the casters. Either way, I haven't played sentinel, this is only speculation.
lazuli wrote...
I don't think splitting up the cooldowns is the best option, though.
The Spamming Troll wrote...
lazuli wrote...
I don't think splitting up the cooldowns is the best option, though.
bioware HAS to split up cooldowns between techs, biotics, first aide, and prolly weapon mods too. theres no reason they shouldnt be split up. theres no reason i shouldnt be able to use lift after i use first aide. its actually quite stupid every thing you do besides shoot, is linked into one cooldown. it just doesnt make sense.
whats the reasoning for it?
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 30 avril 2011 - 12:37 .
The Spamming Troll wrote...
it should change for no other reason then the fact that it doesnt make sense. i think gameplay would be improved if cooldowns were separated. comboing abilities is a huge factor in ME2. allowing for more potential of that aspect would be a good thing. im not sure if global cooldowns in such a great thing to start with, but really not being able to use unity immediately after i use pull, doesnt hurt gameplay. the sentinel would mainly be the only class that would be effected by a switch to separate cooldowns. but playing a sentinel SHOULD have that benefit. i just dont see anything bad with separating cooldowns. i only see good with a change like that.
lazuli wrote...
The Spamming Troll wrote...
it should change for no other reason then the fact that it doesnt make sense. i think gameplay would be improved if cooldowns were separated. comboing abilities is a huge factor in ME2. allowing for more potential of that aspect would be a good thing. im not sure if global cooldowns in such a great thing to start with, but really not being able to use unity immediately after i use pull, doesnt hurt gameplay. the sentinel would mainly be the only class that would be effected by a switch to separate cooldowns. but playing a sentinel SHOULD have that benefit. i just dont see anything bad with separating cooldowns. i only see good with a change like that.
It's a risk vs. reward thing. I don't think global cooldowns are perfect, but I can see the reasoning behind them. I don't think splitting cooldowns by classification would be an improvement. Beyond that, what can you do? I suppose another option would be to cycle skills so that you cannot use the same skill twice in a row, but that brings with it a host of other issues.
We could return to an ME1 style, but I cannot abide the thought of minute long cooldowns anymore. It would be interesting to see how ME1 style separated cooldowns would work if they were much shorter by default. In any event, I don't see this happening as we'll probably have even more powers to juggle in ME3, which means that we'd always have something to throw out there.
The Spamming Troll wrote...
i dont see ME3 without global cooldowns too, but seperating specific "genres" of abilites would make complete sense and wouldnt change gameplay in a drastic way at all. unity could easily be put on a sepereate cooldown in the same way medigel was handled in ME1. id remove a cooldown alltogether with ammo powers. the only potential problem is with the sentinel. honestly, i wouldnt even consider it a problem, id consider it a SENTINEL.
whats a major problem you see with using unity right after throw? or sabotage right after warp? or inferno amm after cloak? i see no problems with those type of options at all.
im getting the feeling you have no desire to see change in ME, even for the better.
The Spamming Troll wrote...
bioware HAS to split up cooldowns between techs, biotics, first aide, and prolly weapon mods too. theres no reason they shouldnt be split up. theres no reason i shouldnt be able to use lift after i use first aide. its actually quite stupid every thing you do besides shoot, is linked into one cooldown. it just doesnt make sense.
whats the reasoning for it?
lazuli wrote...
The Spamming Troll wrote...
i
dont see ME3 without global cooldowns too, but seperating specific
"genres" of abilites would make complete sense and wouldnt change
gameplay in a drastic way at all. unity could easily be put on a
sepereate cooldown in the same way medigel was handled in ME1. id remove
a cooldown alltogether with ammo powers. the only potential problem is
with the sentinel. honestly, i wouldnt even consider it a problem, id
consider it a SENTINEL.
whats a major problem you see with using
unity right after throw? or sabotage right after warp? or inferno amm
after cloak? i see no problems with those type of options at all.
So
instead of grouping cooldowns based on their classification
(Tech/Biotic/Combat), you would group them based on something else,
something like functionality? For instance, offense vs. defense. Or
perhaps skills would be grouped based on relative power level.
Concussive Shot, Throw, and Ammo Powers would fall under the basic power
level category while potentially game-breaking skills like Barrier,
Tech Armor, and others would be grouped under the advanced power level
category.
Yet another option would be to leave the grouping up
to the player. Players could put their powers into one of two groups.
Using a power from group A would put all of the rest of those powers on
cooldown, but you'd still be able to use powers from group B. So as an
Adept you might want Pull in one group and Warp in the other. None of
these ideas really make sense in terms of lore, but I'm not really
concerned with that.
I'd like to see how grouping cooldowns would work in the game.im getting the feeling you have no desire to see change in ME, even for the better.
That's something I need to be wary of. If I'm not careful, I'll end up even worse than the ME1 apologists.
Omega-202 wrote...
The Spamming Troll wrote...
bioware
HAS to split up cooldowns between techs, biotics, first aide, and
prolly weapon mods too. theres no reason they shouldnt be split up.
theres no reason i shouldnt be able to use lift after i use first aide.
its actually quite stupid every thing you do besides shoot, is linked
into one cooldown. it just doesnt make sense.
whats the reasoning for it?
It makes perfect sense.
Your
suit runs off of a central power source. So does your BioAmp and your
Omni-tool. Your suits battery can only run one at a time. If you tried
to run your Omni-tool and your BioAmp back to back, you'd fry out.
Don't just say "it doesn't make sense" because you don't like it.
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 30 avril 2011 - 05:31 .
But again, that wouldn't make a difference for any class but the Sentinel. I guess the Vanguard could then use Inferno Ammo (Combat) immediately after a Charge (Biotic) or something, but what practical purpose would that serve? Are you just trying to revamp the Sentinel?The Spamming Troll wrote...
i think your trying to hard. thats also fairly confusing having categories that works with talent teirs. i would only separate skills based on classification alone. thats what currently doesnt make sense. it doesnt need to be any mroe difficult then it should seem. just separate techs and biotics on separate cooldown, maybe have a vertical splitting-circle that represents the tech cooldowns along with the horizontal one for biotics. put medigel/unity on an individual cooldown like ME1. remove a cooldown altogether for ammo mods. ....and were set. i wouldnt even put a "cooldown" on ammo mods. simply make the animation for it last as long as a 1 second cooldown we currently have. in a way make it more flowing in terms of gameplay instead of just putting every little thing we do on a cooldown.
All in good fun. I like that ME1 set the stage for ME2, but I think it's a pretty terrible game. The story, the characters, they work for me. The game itself, though? Not so much. But I'm derailing this thread now.also, i hope your not trying to belittle those who happen to be fans of ME1.
The Spamming Troll wrote...
you do realize your completely making things up here, right? my suit contributes NOTHING to my biotics or my tech abilities. what is this talk about a suit battery??? amps only enhance the basic abilities i was BORN WITH. amps and omnitools have no relation to eachother whatsoever. omni tools are the devices creating my tech abilites, not my biotic-suit-battery or whatebver your trying to reference......
Bio-amps
Amplifiers allow biotics to synchronize the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.
An implant is surgically-embedded interface port into which amps are "plugged in". On humans, the implant is usually placed at the base of the skull for convenient access, though the user must be careful to keep it free of contaminants.
Praetor Shepard wrote...
The Spamming Troll wrote...
you do realize your completely making things up here, right? my suit contributes NOTHING to my biotics or my tech abilities. what is this talk about a suit battery??? amps only enhance the basic abilities i was BORN WITH. amps and omnitools have no relation to eachother whatsoever. omni tools are the devices creating my tech abilites, not my biotic-suit-battery or whatebver your trying to reference......
Well... unless you're playing as an Asari; humans need:Bio-amps
Amplifiers allow biotics to synchronize the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.
An implant is surgically-embedded interface port into which amps are "plugged in". On humans, the implant is usually placed at the base of the skull for convenient access, though the user must be careful to keep it free of contaminants.
and ME1 Armor mods to provide boosts to tech and biotics (along with AI Hacking for Tech Talents).
And so does ME2 Research for powers.
Ahglock wrote...
The bioamp was not connected to the armor in any way. In ME1 in your armor you might get some small perks like reduced cooldowns, but that was not some direct biotic boost. It was more like giving you a stream of performance enhancing drugs so you recovered from everything quicker.
ME2, put the biotic and tech boosts in the armor which didn;t really fit, but I guess you can always go hey crap changed in those 2 years.
lazuli wrote...
But again, that wouldn't make a difference for any class but the Sentinel. I guess the Vanguard could then use Inferno Ammo (Combat) immediately after a Charge (Biotic) or something, but what practical purpose would that serve? Are you just trying to revamp the Sentinel?The Spamming Troll wrote...
i think your trying to hard. thats also fairly confusing having categories that works with talent teirs. i would only separate skills based on classification alone. thats what currently doesnt make sense. it doesnt need to be any mroe difficult then it should seem. just separate techs and biotics on separate cooldown, maybe have a vertical splitting-circle that represents the tech cooldowns along with the horizontal one for biotics. put medigel/unity on an individual cooldown like ME1. remove a cooldown altogether for ammo mods. ....and were set. i wouldnt even put a "cooldown" on ammo mods. simply make the animation for it last as long as a 1 second cooldown we currently have. in a way make it more flowing in terms of gameplay instead of just putting every little thing we do on a cooldown.
Praetor Shepard wrote...
The Spamming Troll wrote...
you do realize your completely making things up here, right? my suit contributes NOTHING
to my biotics or my tech abilities. what is this talk about a suit
battery??? amps only enhance the basic abilities i was BORN WITH. amps
and omnitools have no relation to eachother whatsoever. omni tools are
the devices creating my tech abilites, not my biotic-suit-battery or
whatebver your trying to reference......
Well... unless you're playing as an Asari; humans need:Bio-amps
Amplifiers
allow biotics to synchronize the nodules so they can form fields large
and strong enough for practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific
discipline or talent.
An implant is surgically-embedded interface
port into which amps are "plugged in". On humans, the implant is
usually placed at the base of the skull for convenient access, though
the user must be careful to keep it free of contaminants.
and ME1 Armor mods to provide boosts to tech and biotics (along with AI Hacking for Tech Talents).
And so does ME2 Research for powers.
Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 30 avril 2011 - 06:34 .
Praetor Shepard wrote...
Ahglock wrote...
The bioamp was not connected to the armor in any way. In ME1 in your armor you might get some small perks like reduced cooldowns, but that was not some direct biotic boost. It was more like giving you a stream of performance enhancing drugs so you recovered from everything quicker.
ME2, put the biotic and tech boosts in the armor which didn;t really fit, but I guess you can always go hey crap changed in those 2 years.
I didn't consider direct or indirect interaction at first, so I can easily be off. I gotta get back to reading in-game descriptions again.
I was also thinking of the armor pieces that provide boosts in ME2, like the Amplifier Plates; as well as the Blood Dragon and Inferno Armors in addition to the ME1 template for boosts.