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[Kronner]

The article said no weapon restrictions, but I'd bet there will be exclusive advanced weapons, available only to certain classes.

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

The article said no weapon restrictions, but I'd bet there will be exclusive advanced weapons, available only to certain classes.

That would be in keeping with what ME2 had; yes, you had to wait for training but then you could choose; still, without modding the game only combat classes got access to the Claymore/Widow, etc.

[Sparrow44]

Yeah there's something wrong with a Vanguard using a Widow, can they wield them, yes. But it would lessen the attractiveness for the Infiltrator.

I think Infiltrators should also get a nerfed Adrenaline Rush (without the damage boost) that grants a dilation only and maybe on a cooldown longer than 3 seconds to prevent it from being spammed often like it does with Soldier.

[Praetor Knight]

Sparroww wrote...

I like the Soldier ideas Praetor, Speedload is an interesting concept though I think with repeated use it would even overpower AR as you're pretty much using unlimited ammo in the long run. Perhaps it would have diminishing returns after the 2nd or 3rd consecutive use where ammo refills become smaller (similar to how ME2 Stasis worked, evolutions would improve it also) and this would promote usage of other Soldier talents.

Soldiers getting grenades and a buffed Concussive Shot would be cool as well, CS could have a feature where if the target is behind cover and the projectile hits said cover then the force of impact would knock the enemy out of cover and exposing them and at higher levels may destroy the cover completely.

I tried some calculations and the Thermal Clip capacity gains seem modest for the weapons that will get the greatest benefit, namely the Sniper Rifles and Heavy Pistols.

For example at level 1 (rounded up) the Mantis will refill 1 shot per use of the power, the Widow 2, the Incisor 5, the Viper 7, the Predator 9, the Phalanx 4, and the Carnifex 3.

At level 4 with the Improved evolution, (rounded up) the Mantis will refill 4, the Widow 5, the Incisor 14, the Viper 22, the Predator will refill 27, the Phalanx 11, and the Carnifex 8.

But diminishing returns for the full auto weapons could be needed compared to current clip pickup rates. I need to check the wiki again to see what current rates are, but here is what I calculated, using 15%, 25%, 35% and 45% (I hope I got the math right):




And, I googled some info on the Game Informer article, and it seems that powers will have more evolution types available, and I hope that cover can be targeted and taken out for more random fights in ME3. I'm eager for ME3

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

The article said no weapon restrictions, but I'd bet there will be exclusive advanced weapons, available only to certain classes.

The article said: "Best of all, weapons are no longer restricted based on classes, so any character has the ability to use any weapon." and "When an enemy falls, Shepard will be able to pick up and use dropped weapons."

One of the GI pic shows Shep wielding the Revenant though we don't know which class, we do know some ME2 enemies use the Rev and according to the article anyone can pick up and use the Rev or Claymore (many ME2 enemies use it too). That's great, it's stupid to electrocute an Engineer who tries to pick up the Claymore or having it explode in his face when he's trying to fire a shot. class powers should separate the men form the boys - not guns.

The ME2 Vanguard is the master of shotguns. Other classes can use them effectively too, but not nearly as good as (and with the style of) a Vanguard. And that's how it's supposed to be imo.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The article said: "Best of all, weapons are no longer restricted based on classes, so any character has the ability to use any weapon." and "When an enemy falls, Shepard will be able to pick up and use dropped weapons."

One of the GI pic shows Shep wielding the Revenant though we don't know which class, we do know some ME2 enemies use the Rev and according to the article anyone can pick up and use the Rev or Claymore (many ME2 enemies use it too). That's great, it's stupid to electrocute an Engineer who tries to pick up the Claymore or having it explode in his face when he's trying to fire a shot. class powers should separate the men form the boys - not guns.

The ME2 Vanguard is the master of shotguns. Other classes can use them effectively too, but not nearly as good as (and with the style of) a Vanguard. And that's how it's supposed to be imo.

Yeah, I agree. I just wouldn't be surprised if each class had unique weapon or power (excluding their signature power of course) or even some other bonus, who knows.

Modifié par Kronner, 12 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[RGFrog]

Kronner wrote...
Yeah, I agree. I just wouldn't be surprised if each class had unique weapon or power (excluding their signature power of course) or even some other bonus, who knows.

Sounds an awful lot like the ME1 weapon training system... I don't know that I'd want to get back into that muck again.

[Sparrow44]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I reckon it would help with weapons like snipers like the Mantis and the Incisor which have terrible ammo pick-up rates to begin with but yeah powerful weapons are gonna be more powerful with a endless stash of ammo basically with this power.

I think if we're going on ranks 1-4 of powers then:

1. 15%
2. 20%
3. 25%
4. 30% (and less diminishing returns) or 35%

These might seem better numbers that don't feel overkill and getting ammo re-fills every 6 seconds.

[Kronner]

RGFrog wrote...

Kronner wrote...
Yeah, I agree. I just wouldn't be surprised if each class had unique weapon or power (excluding their signature power of course) or even some other bonus, who knows.

Sounds an awful lot like the ME1 weapon training system... I don't know that I'd want to get back into that muck again.

No, in ME1 you could use anything, but Shepard couldn't hit anything unless (s)he had the training. I think in ME3 Shep will be good with any weapon, but certain classes might get some minor bonuses, or a bonus weapon, passsive bonus, power..something like that. I'd expect that from ME3.

Modifié par Kronner, 12 avril 2011 - 08:30 .

[Praetor Knight]

Sparroww wrote...

I reckon it would help with weapons like snipers like the Mantis and the Incisor which have terrible ammo pick-up rates to begin with but yeah powerful weapons are gonna be more powerful with a endless stash of ammo basically with this power.

I think if we're going on ranks 1-4 of powers then:

1. 15%
2. 20%
3. 25%
4. 30% (and less diminishing returns) or 35%

These might seem better numbers that don't feel overkill and getting ammo re-fills every 6 seconds.

I agree, that should certainly help, the most important thing is to add to combat and not provide something OP.

And the cooldown can also be lengthened to further compensate whatever % will be used (I'd be fine with a 12 second cooldown), since lore-wise, the idea is using the Omnitool to make the materials restoring the weapon's capacity.

Another limit I was considering, is that the power could also be limited to the Soldier, Infiltrator and Vanguard.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

m14567 wrote...

I'm good with classes getting access to all classes of weapons but I'm not sure that all classes should get access to the most powerful weapons in those classes, especially something like the widow.

I'm a bit skeptical about this too, as I think the special weapons stand to lose their uniqueness if they become too accessible. If they are too powerful, then no one will take anything else. If they are nerfed, they may not be taken at all. The best i can think of for the special weapons is to make them handle and perform in such a way that is very effective in game, yet balanced, yet distinctive enough that they cannot be replicated by any other weapon in the game (through upgrades, or whatever). But this could be tricky for say, the Widow, which behaves exactly like a more powerful Mantis.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 12 avril 2011 - 10:37 .

[Ahglock]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

m14567 wrote...

I'm good with classes getting access to all classes of weapons but I'm not sure that all classes should get access to the most powerful weapons in those classes, especially something like the widow.

I'm a bit skeptical about this too, as I think the special weapons stand to lose their uniqueness if they become too accessible. If they are too powerful, then no one will take anything else. If they are nerfed, they may not be taken at all. The best i can think of for the special weapons is to make them handle and perform in such a way that is very effective in game, yet balanced, yet distinctive enough that they cannot be replicated by any other weapon in the game (through upgrades, or whatever). But this could be tricky for say, the Widow, which behaves exactly like a more powerful Mantis.

I am up in the air about it.  I kind of like unlocking special weapon access.  But at the same time what do the non-gun focussed classes get.  Yeah inflitrator gets the widow, vangaurd the claymore, soldier any special weapon.  But what do you get the adept, engineer, and sentinel an addiional weapon slot doesn't really cut it IMO.  It is not nearly as cool as a special weapon, where is their exclusive gift?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Hard to say. The cop-out answer is to say that their enhanced array of powers are their bonus.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 avril 2011 - 12:31 .

[chester013]

I'd like an evolved form of AI hacking available to Infiltrators and Engineers because let's face it, it sucks right now.

Instead of just controlling a mech and having it shoot enemies, lower tier evolutions allow this to work through shields on basic synthetics (like a loki or geth trooper) a higher tier would activate it's self destruct mechanism and seek out the nearest enemy for a nice big hug, then BLAM!

Or perhaps another could allow you to directly control the mech through your omni tool interface (a la Arrivals mech based jail break), just spitballing here, I'll work on some more techy/infiltratorish stuff later.

EDIT:

Overcharge - additional capacitors to your omni tool allow you to store a massive chage which will enhance your tech powers (increased damage or duration) but will increase cooldown afterwards. Not that interesting but if you could set how much you want to boost your power by (say between 10% and 50%) this would have a corresponding increase on the increased cooldown. Still a rough idea and no idea how this would work in the UI but I like it.

Modifié par chester013, 13 avril 2011 - 05:57 .

[Kronner]

Ahglock wrote...

It is not nearly as cool as a special weapon, where is their exclusive gift?

Just an example: Adepts gets improved Singularity (for example Singularity explodes when it wears off..killing and damaging enemies in a certain range); Engineer's drone gets upgraded (can heal you or it gets ability to attack 2 enemies); Sentinel..maybe a passive buff increasing squad defenses by X%.

I think that if combat classes got special weapons (or maybe not even special weapon per se, maybe just weapon buff or special gear for a weapon..), and caster classes power buff, it would be pretty cool.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

It would be fun if they brought back Carnage as a shotgun ability, sure we have concussive shot in ME 2 but it was a bit weak and i miss the feeling of raw power when carnage oblirated every enemy in your path.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 13 avril 2011 - 07:32 .

[Bozorgmehr]

chester013 wrote...

I'd like an evolved form of AI hacking available to Infiltrators and Engineers because let's face it, it sucks right now.

AI Hacking does not suck social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/5743362 at all.

m14567 wrote...

I'm good with classes getting access to all classes of weapons but I'm not sure that all classes should get access to the most powerful weapons in those classes, especially something like the widow.

Can someone explain what the point of adding sniper rifles to the game is, if only one or two classes can actually snipe? The Viper isn't a SR, the Incisor sucks as it is, and the Mantis can't kill anything - might as well dump the whole SR option for everyone else and only allow Infiltrators to use it - wouldn't change a thing.

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^Hard to say. The cop-out answer is to say that their enhanced array of powers are their bonus.

And other classes have no powers? If you say weapons are what defines classes then Adepts should be able to use Charge and Engineers Cloak. Every class has its own special abilities - that's what sets them apart, not what gear they can use, that's stupid. Give combat classes skills that improve the use of their favorite weapons, not unique powers AND unique weapons while casters end up with poorman's pew pew junk. In ME2 the combat classes have the best (most powerful) skills (TA (tanking) is a combat skill imo) and the best weapons - that's not a fair deal.

I said it before and say it again: Vanguards are master of the shotgun, not because they're called Vanguard but because they have Charge - there is no other class that can come close to the devastation Vanguards can do with a shottie. Second, the Claymore isn't the 'best' SG - it's only a highly specialized one (no class will be more potent with the Claymore than with any of the other shotguns), the Mattock is a lot more powerful than the Rev (I think my point about the Widow is clear).

Combat classes can carry more weapons than casters in ME3 (a huge advantage), adding special gear would completely break the game. If you think casters should not rely on guns than give them powers which are 10x stronger than what combat classes can use. (Warrior vs Mage thing - I don't want that, ME is a shooter-rpg hybrid - not powers vs guns, it's powers & guns).

[Kronner]

m14567 wrote...

Ok, well I'd imagine playing ME 2 with an Adept, Engineer or Sentinel running around with the revenant and widow.

I agree. There'd be no point in playing Soldier if a player could have Revenant and Widow as a Sentinel.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 avril 2011 - 12:48 .

[jbblue05]

Kronner wrote...

m14567 wrote...

Ok, well I'd imagine playing ME 2 with an Adept, Engineer or Sentinel running around with the revenant and widow.

I agree. There'd be no point in playing Soldier if a player could have Revenant and Widow as a Sentinel.

Their would be no point in playing any other classes.
Having access to biotic andd tech powers and being able to tank is a bit overpowered but having the firepower of a Soldier will be game breakingly overpowered

[Stardusk78]

Looks like there is a real battle going on here.

What I would favour is the following; let all classes use all generic weapons but save the special versions for their respective classes; Widow>Infiltrator, etc...that is fair and balanced.

[RGFrog]

jbblue05 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

m14567 wrote...

Ok, well I'd imagine playing ME 2 with an Adept, Engineer or Sentinel running around with the revenant and widow.

I agree. There'd be no point in playing Soldier if a player could have Revenant and Widow as a Sentinel.

Their would be no point in playing any other classes.
Having access to biotic andd tech powers and being able to tank is a bit overpowered but having the firepower of a Soldier will be game breakingly overpowered

Not really, you can mod your game now to allow just that. But with an adept, it's kinda pointless.

The couple of times I altered the loadout I found that I rarely used the weapoins anyway and I was more annoyed with having to stare at the small armory shep carried around.

Personally, each class should only need weapons to make up for their weaknesses. Since a stock soldier has no biotic talent and no tech specialization, they have an array of weapons to make up for situations where a power or tech might work better.

I don't think a player should be barred from using whatever weapon they deem best suits them. But, at the same time, an Adept shouldn't be any where near as deadly with a Widow as an Infiltrator.

And on the flip side, an Infiltrator shouldn't get the same use out of a biotic bonus power as an adept.

Infiltrator is part tech part soldier. Vanguard is part biotic part soldier. Sentinel is part tech, part biotic, part soldier. Adept is a biotic with a loadout that covers blindspots. Engineer is a tech with a loadout that covers blind spots. Soldier is none of these with a loadout that covers everything and shouldn't have much by the way of usable adept or tech abilities. IMO.