434 réponses à ce sujet

[RGFrog]

^^Agree with this... something completely lost in many of the posts here. The classes don't need to be dumbed down or balked at when others suggest they be buffed.

The AI and the overall difficulty settings need to be revamped.

[The Spamming Troll]

RGFrog wrote...

^^Agree with this... something completely lost in many of the posts here. The classes don't need to be dumbed down or balked at when others suggest they be buffed.

The AI and the overall difficulty settings need to be revamped.

true.

i will never understand why there isnt a huge uproar about the whole "enemy protections" thing. in my opinion, enemy protections are the crappyest, lazyest, worst possible idea to make a game more challenging.

insanity turns an adept into a "half second stunner" class. its absolutely pathetic.

[Malanek]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

^^Agree with this... something completely lost in many of the posts here. The classes don't need to be dumbed down or balked at when others suggest they be buffed.

The AI and the overall difficulty settings need to be revamped.

true.

i will never understand why there isnt a huge uproar about the whole "enemy protections" thing. in my opinion, enemy protections are the crappyest, lazyest, worst possible idea to make a game more challenging.

insanity turns an adept into a "half second stunner" class. its absolutely pathetic.

I would personally prefer not getting into this on this thread. The issue has been done to death and this thread will get derailed if it goes there.

[termokanden]

Maze of Torment wrote...

Better game for whom? You see players like Kronner who mastered a class like Vanguard, AA sentinel will be a cakewalk, but he ultimately prefers Vanguard for its gameplay. But he also mentioned a very important fact that he had his friends play and they are not able to do what he does. Consider the skill level of the average player and not the top tier players. Soldier is the default class for most and it's a relatively easy class to get into and play, and it's needed for the game to appeal to a larger audience.

Well I'm not some sort of super skilled player. I can get through the game easily enough on insanity, but I'm not exactly making videos to show off my skills. I still found that Tech Armor trivializes most of the game. Fun to use, but I have to admit it's a bit too easy to stay alive with it.

[Waltzingbear]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i will never understand why there isnt a huge uproar about the whole "enemy protections" thing. in my opinion, enemy protections are the crappyest, lazyest, worst possible idea to make a game more challenging.

insanity turns an adept into a "half second stunner" class. its absolutely pathetic.

I completely disagree. I think that making enemies have different defenses was a good decision; it added a more tactical depth to combat with classes and different enemies having strengths and weaknesses, all in a way that really fits a game that is more than just a shooter and has role playing elements.

An adept is far from being impotent, and I find it much more enjoyable to play with the current system than how it was in the first game. If while playing an Adept you throw a curse every time you are unable to lift an enemy that has his shields up then you haven't figured out how to play the class yet. A red bar enemy is not only half-dead to an Adept, he's also a risk to every enemy within 5 meters radius of him.

And if you're going to say that instead they should have made enemies more challenging by making the AI "smarter" I'm going to slap you.
As an action game enemies' behavior in ME was totally retarded and the things you could have pulled off were ridiculous. ME2 feels much more natural. You can't just run around the battlefield without getting filled with plasma.
What is a smart way to provide challenges then? make enemies to always outflank you? There is already some degree of this in ME2; but if cover were to be obsolete after no more than 10 seconds you'd have to provide each class with a strong defensive ability, or some (more aggressive) classes would just tramp others. This would make (at least to me) classes a lot less interesting to play and the strategy would almost always be the same.

[TevinterMagister]

termokanden wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

Better game for whom? You see players like Kronner who mastered a class like Vanguard, AA sentinel will be a cakewalk, but he ultimately prefers Vanguard for its gameplay. But he also mentioned a very important fact that he had his friends play and they are not able to do what he does. Consider the skill level of the average player and not the top tier players. Soldier is the default class for most and it's a relatively easy class to get into and play, and it's needed for the game to appeal to a larger audience.

Well I'm not some sort of super skilled player. I can get through the game easily enough on insanity, but I'm not exactly making videos to show off my skills. I still found that Tech Armor trivializes most of the game. Fun to use, but I have to admit it's a bit too easy to stay alive with it.

I'm not some super skilled player either, hell I happen to die every other mission believe it or not, and that's error in judgement, my fault, not the class. Engineer was even easier, done that twice on insanity now, am I justified in calling nerfs on the drone? My experience is the one that matters, isn't it?

[termokanden]

Well I think Assault Armor is too powerful, and yes that's based on my personal experience with the sentinel and other classes on insanity. You are free to disagree.

[Relix28]

Hey guys, I was just thinking about the weapon slot system that was confirmed in the GI article. It was said that every class could choose any weapon type from the get-go, but only Soldiers will be allowed to carry all 4 weapons at once. So it's logical to asssume that (combat hybrids) Vanguard and Infiltrator will be able to carry 3 weapons and (caster classes) Sentinel, Adept and Engineer will only have 2 weapon slots. Now, I was thinking that weapons might be divided in to two categories. 1st would be support weapons wich includes SMG's and handguns. And 2nd would be main/power weapons wich inculdes assault rifles, sniper rifles and shotguns. And every class would have one slot reserved for a support weapon (SMG or handgun), and 1/2/3 slots for main weapons (AR, sniper, shotgun).
I think this would make sense for a couple of reasons. The most obvious of them being that hanguns and SMG's would become more or less obsolete, if you could choose, say an AR and a sniper for your Engineer/Adept/Sentinel or all 3 power weapons for Vanguard/Infiltrator. This would mean that the two combat hybrids could have the same weapon loadouts as Soldiers. And let's be honest here, who used a handgun or chose SMG training when plaing with a Soldier? The anwser is (almost) no one, cause there was no need to use 1 or even less so 2 support weapons, when you already had 3 main weapons suited for every possible situation (close-mid-long range encounters). 

Imo, you will be able to change your main weapon type(s) as well  as support weapon whenever, but will be forced to have an SMG or a handgun with you at all times.
This is offcourse just a speculation based on what has been said in the GI article, but I think it's a pretty reasonable one. So, what are your opinions on this matter?




 

Modifié par Relix28, 19 avril 2011 - 02:45 .

[TevinterMagister]

ARush and combat drone trivialize the game, somehow that's not an issue, that's fine.

Only thing I don't like is that I have to spend 1/3rd of the game before I can get a real weapon, but that's being fixed in ME3. I hope the pistol is not counted among the weapons that we can pick but rather standard issue for every class. How else can I shove a gun in peoples faces and show the likes of Conrad Verner what it means to be truly extreme.

Modifié par Maze of Torment, 19 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[Relix28]

Maze of Torment wrote...
Only thing I don't like is that I have to spend 1/3rd of the game before I can get a real weapon, but that's being fixed in ME3. I hope the pistol is not counted among the weapons that we can pick but rather standard issue for every class. How else can I shove a gun in peoples faces and show the likes of Conrad Verner what it means to be truly extreme.

Yeah, I think none of us liked that particular weapon training decision. That is also the reason I played NG+ so many times.
And I think I would be fine if we shoved either a gun or an SMG to Conrad's face, as long as they fix those "default weapon selections" in between cutscenes. That was really annoying in ME2. Everyone equipped with an Avenger all of a sudden, Soldier using that fugly Shuriken in Arrival, etc... I really hope they fix that crap, so that cutscenes would show one of the weapons that you currently have equipped.

[Kronner]

Relix28 wrote...

Imo, you will be able to change your main weapon type(s) as well  as support weapon whenever, but will be forced to have an SMG or a handgun with you at all times.
This is offcourse just a speculation based on what has been said in the GI article, but I think it's a pretty reasonable one. So, what are your opinions on this matter?
 

Yeah, this makes sense. Though I hope we won't be forced to use all slots.
I'd like a Vanguard with shotgun + AR, no other weapon needed.

[TevinterMagister]

Autozoom on power activation needs to go as well, hard to believe that was intended, maybe a technical limitation with the game engine. I'd like a battle rifle with an assult scope that can be toggled on/off, and a shotgun for close encounters. Army of two 40th day allowed you to toggle things like scopes and silencers from the ingame weapon selection menu.

[Relix28]

Kronner wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

Imo, you will be able to change your main weapon type(s) as well  as support weapon whenever, but will be forced to have an SMG or a handgun with you at all times.
This is offcourse just a speculation based on what has been said in the GI article, but I think it's a pretty reasonable one. So, what are your opinions on this matter?
 

Yeah, this makes sense. Though I hope we won't be forced to use all slots.
I'd like a Vanguard with shotgun + AR, no other weapon needed.

I honestly wouldn't mind, if we were forced to use one support weapon (even though we might not need it in combat). It kinda makes sense from a roleplaying perspective, to have one quick-draw hip gun with you always. You know, so you wouldn't have to shove a Widow in Conrads face. lol

As long as heavy weapons can stay on the Normandy, I will be fine.

Modifié par Relix28, 19 avril 2011 - 03:08 .

[Sparrow44]

Needing a pistol just for cutscenes is stupid, at the very least create animations for me to swing the Widow in someone's face.

Now that would hurt.

But seriously I couldn't think of any reason to pick a pistol or an SMG over a shotgun or an AR. Sincerely hope that the pistol isn't a mandatory slot for the weapons.

[Ahglock]

Sparroww wrote...

Needing a pistol just for cutscenes is stupid, at the very least create animations for me to swing the Widow in someone's face.

Now that would hurt.

But seriously I couldn't think of any reason to pick a pistol or an SMG over a shotgun or an AR. Sincerely hope that the pistol isn't a mandatory slot for the weapons.

Weapon choice isn't much of a weapon choice if 1/2 your slots are forced.  

[termokanden]

Maze of Torment wrote...

ARush and combat drone trivialize the game, somehow that's not an issue, that's fine.

I never said the rest of the game balance was perfect. But it doesn't seem like we're getting very far with this.

Instead, here's a random plea to either fix aim assist or let us turn it off! It doesn't work well with time dilation as it is now. For me that would improve soldier/infiltrator gameplay.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 avril 2011 - 04:10 .

[Relix28]

Sparroww wrote...

Needing a pistol just for cutscenes is stupid, at the very least create animations for me to swing the Widow in someone's face.

Now that would hurt.

But seriously I couldn't think of any reason to pick a pistol or an SMG over a shotgun or an AR. Sincerely hope that the pistol isn't a mandatory slot for the weapons.

Exactly my point. That is why I said that SMG's and pistols might be mandatory. If they weren't, no one would ever use them, for obvious reasons. With that in mind, there is no sense in having them in the game then, is there?
Caster classes compensate the lack of (better) weaponry with more tech and/or biotic powers. And vice-versa for Soldiers. I don't think they will change that weapons-to-powers balance, by allowing Vanguards to carry a shotgun, sniper AND an assult rifle. He is not a Soldier, so he compensates the lack of one of these weapons with something less powerfull like a pistol or an SMG. He is also not an Adept with the whole spectrum of biotic powers, so he compesates that with better weaponry.
That was always the case, and I don't think it will change for ME3.

[TevinterMagister]

termokanden wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

ARush and combat drone trivialize the game, somehow that's not an issue, that's fine.

I never said the rest of the game balance was perfect. But it doesn't seem like we're getting very far with this.

Instead, here's a random plea to either fix aim assist or let us turn it off! It doesn't work well with time dilation as it is now. For me that would improve soldier/infiltrator gameplay.

No, let's just agree to disagree, I'm done with defending the sentinel. At least I can agree with you on the aim assist issue as an xbox user.

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

A question: Why should every class be like Adept or Engineer? Caster? Why?

Timmy Ziggy wrote...

Soldier:
[...] Adrenaline Rush, but to slow-down time, increase weapon damage AND boost defence - that's a little bit overkill, no? Why not split it up into 3  different versions, so the Soldier still becomes the best class for tanking, shooting, and getting into strategically placed cover or flanks? Plus, with the inclusion of Flashbang or Inferno grenade, the Soldier could even take down everyone solo.

If you consider Timmy Ziggy's Soldier to be like Adept or Engineer, or a caster then my answer is yes. I don't like having one skill doing multiple things, I rather have multiple skills doing one thing (and have the whole lot on fast cooldowns). I like having options in battle and while leveling up, instead of spamming one power that takes care of everything.

Kronner wrote...

Sentinel is a tank in ME2, with some extra goodies on top. It's actually pretty cool class, but unfortunately poor QA resulted in overpowered Assault Armor, which could easily be fixed. Who cares about combos..you can enjoy those on other classes.

How would you 'fix' it then? What makes TA OP exactly? The explosion? Squad cd reset? Extra shield boost (AA)? The 6 second cooldown? What goodies do you like to see added? And how can they be used when you reduce TA's potential?

Sparroww wrote...

Something I've realized is that TA is 4 powers in one, the shield boost, the pulse effect, the squad cooldown reset and either an instant shield recharge from breaking or a power damage buff depending on the evolution.

Just split the power into different components and cooldowns if they're to return, so you can activate the pulse ability at will instead of waiting for the shields to break albeit at maybe a smaller cooldown lets say 6 second base cooldown, and I suppose it can still let you play however you want with other powers without comprising with a hefty 12 cooldown just to recharge.

Excellent idea Sparroww! I would really like having the option to blow TA when the time is right - that would be cool I never liked the huge 12 s cooldown anyways, I rather have a little less powerful ability that can be used more often, than one (4-in-1) power on a long cooldown. I hope the longest ME3 cd (for Shep) will be 6 seconds (base).

Maze of Torment wrote...

Point is that it's fine for people like me who enjoy what I have.

Then I'm glad 'people like you' are not working for Bioware. I think most of us enjoyed what they had in ME1 - following your kind of 'logic' would brought us neither Combat Drones, Cloak, ARush, Charge and your favorite Tech Armor.

Just saying, in case anyone forgot. Oh, and I'm glad Bioware added those powers, they made ME2 a lot more fun.

Maze of Torment wrote...

Better game for whom? You see players like Kronner who mastered a class like Vanguard, AA sentinel will be a cakewalk, but he ultimately prefers Vanguard for its gameplay. But he also mentioned a very important fact that he had his friends play and they are not able to do what he does. Consider the skill level of the average player and not the top tier players. Soldier is the default class for most and it's a relatively easy class to get into and play, and it's needed for the game to appeal to a larger audience.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. You know someone who knows someone who knows someone who cannot do the stuff Kronner can do with his Vanguard (after many playthroughs)? So what? If the game is too hard, turn down the difficulty. If my grandma (who cannot use pc at all) presses the TA button the moment cooldown finishes - she will last very long on Normal. Are you suggesting everyone should be able to get through Insanity without dying a couple times?

Maybe you enjoy being invincible like in ME1; I don't, when I play on the hardest setting I want to be challenged a little. With Assault Armor you are insanely powerful on Insanity (a total game breaker on Normal), close the the ME1 Immunity spamming. And in case you missed Aghlock's post, there are many others that liked what Bioware did to biotics in ME2. It's one of the best examples how 'gimping' certain effects can improve gameplay and I'm glad BW didn't gave the Adept a Singularity-Warpbomb-Pull-Throw power that would kill everything (but on a long cooldown).

[Sparrow44]

Relix28 wrote...

Exactly my point. That is why I said that SMG's and pistols might be mandatory. If they weren't, no one would ever use them, for obvious reasons. With that in mind, there is no sensein having them in the game then, is there? Caster classes compensatethe lack of (better) weaponry with more tech and/or biotic powers. And vice-versa for Soldiers. I don't think they will change that weapons-to-powers balance, by allowing Vanguards to carry a shotgun,
sniper AND an assult rifle. He is not a Soldier, so he compensates the lack of one of these weapons with something less powerfull like a pistolor an SMG. He is also not an Adept with the whole spectrum of biotic  powers, so he compesates that with better weaponry.

That was always the case, and I don't think it will change for ME3.

The Game Informer article on ME3 seemed to indicate that casters would get 2 weapon slots and can select whichever weapon class they want;

A couple of things, heavy weapons haven't been confirmed yet so whether they take up one of those 2 slots if they did return or not is at this point speculation. Also the fact that SMG's and pistols are also returning it sort of does bring up the point of whether they're redundant or not if better weaponry is available, which means those sub-class of weapons may be rarely used by a player.

So out of my 2 weapon slots if I'm forced to bring either a HW or a pistol then it eliminates the notion of choice. Personally don't think this is the case though as we can pick up fallen weapons during combat so this might mean we can swap weapons around on the fly instead of between missions.

Modifié par Sparroww, 19 avril 2011 - 04:41 .

[TevinterMagister]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

Point is that it's fine for people like me who enjoy what I have.

Then I'm glad 'people like you' are not working for Bioware. I think most of us enjoyed what they had in ME1 - following your kind of 'logic' would brought us neither Combat Drones, Cloak, ARush, Charge and your favorite Tech Armor.

Just saying, in case anyone forgot. Oh, and I'm glad Bioware added those powers, they made ME2 a lot more fun.

Maze of Torment wrote...

Better game for whom? You see players like Kronner who mastered a class like Vanguard, AA sentinel will be a cakewalk, but he ultimately prefers Vanguard for its gameplay. But he also mentioned a very important fact that he had his friends play and they are not able to do what he does. Consider the skill level of the average player and not the top tier players. Soldier is the default class for most and it's a relatively easy class to get into and play, and it's needed for the game to appeal to a larger audience.

I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. You know someone who knows someone who knows someone who cannot do the stuff Kronner can do with his Vanguard (after many playthroughs)? So what? If the game is too hard, turn down the difficulty. If my grandma (who cannot use pc at all) presses the TA button the moment cooldown finishes - she will last very long on Normal. Are you suggesting everyone should be able to get through Insanity without dying a couple times?

Maybe you enjoy being invincible like in ME1; I don't, when I play on the hardest setting I want to be challenged a little. With Assault Armor you are insanely powerful on Insanity (a total game breaker on Normal), close the the ME1 Immunity spamming. And in case you missed Aghlock's post, there are many others that liked what Bioware did to biotics in ME2. It's one of the best examples how 'gimping' certain effects can improve gameplay and I'm glad BW didn't gave the Adept a Singularity-Warpbomb-Pull-Throw power that would kill everything (but on a long cooldown).

I can complete the game with every class on insanity, some are easier than other for me, no amount of balancing will change that. Only reason is that I took the time to learn the game, know the maps etc etc, everyone will eventually reach this point where any class is trivial/OP/whatever you wanna call it.

[Ahglock]

Relix28 wrote...

Sparroww wrote...

Needing a pistol just for cutscenes is stupid, at the very least create animations for me to swing the Widow in someone's face.

Now that would hurt.

But seriously I couldn't think of any reason to pick a pistol or an SMG over a shotgun or an AR. Sincerely hope that the pistol isn't a mandatory slot for the weapons.

Exactly my point. That is why I said that SMG's and pistols might be mandatory. If they weren't, no one would ever use them, for obvious reasons. With that in mind, there is no sense in having them in the game then, is there?
Caster classes compensate the lack of (better) weaponry with more tech and/or biotic powers. And vice-versa for Soldiers. I don't think they will change that weapons-to-powers balance, by allowing Vanguards to carry a shotgun, sniper AND an assult rifle. He is not a Soldier, so he compensates the lack of one of these weapons with something less powerfull like a pistol or an SMG. He is also not an Adept with the whole spectrum of biotic powers, so he compesates that with better weaponry.
That was always the case, and I don't think it will change for ME3.

Pistols maybe.  But SMGs are fairly awesome.  They might need some beefing up, but not much.  Shotguns or SMG is more a style choice than a power balance choice.  If you like to close into point blank range go with the shot gun, if you want to keep some distance the SMG will be the superior shield stripper.  Pistols, need a boost to match up with the other armor stripper, sniper rifles.  So, instead of requiring everyone take a pistol or whatever why not, balance the guns a bit better so the pistol is not a bad choice.  

[Bozorgmehr]

Maze of Torment wrote...

I can complete the game with every class on insanity, some are easier than other for me, no amount of balancing will change that. Only reason is that I took the time to learn the game, know the maps etc etc, everyone will eventually reach this point where any class is trivial/OP/whatever you wanna call it.

On the contrary, tweaking balance can have a major impact on gameplay. But I'm a little confused here, first you're saying you like everything the way it is now - and now you don't seem to care much about 'balance' coz in the end you'll able to beat the game on Insanity anyway?

If that's the case, why do you respond so passionately to anyone who argued TA might need to be tuned a bit because the current versions is a little too powerful?

[TevinterMagister]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

I can complete the game with every class on insanity, some are easier than other for me, no amount of balancing will change that. Only reason is that I took the time to learn the game, know the maps etc etc, everyone will eventually reach this point where any class is trivial/OP/whatever you wanna call it.

On the contrary, tweaking balance can have a major impact on gameplay. But I'm a little confused here, first you're saying you like everything the way it is now - and now you don't seem to care much about 'balance' coz in the end you'll able to beat the game on Insanity anyway?

If that's the case, why do you respond so passionately to anyone who argued TA might need to be tuned a bit because the current versions is a little too powerful?

I believe all the classes are good in the sense that they each feel different, let's keep that and build on the next evolutions, what bugged me was your proposal to redesign a whole class that worked really good as is and I wasn't going to let that slide. Had you come up with a similar redesign for engineers I would disagree with that as well, it's fine as is, just need a bit more explosives.

[Bozorgmehr]

Maze of Torment wrote...

I believe all the classes are good in the sense that they each feel different, let's keep that and build on the next evolutions, what bugged me was your proposal to redesign a whole class that worked really good as is and I wasn't going to let that slide. Had you come up with a similar redesign for engineers I would disagree with that as well, it's fine as is, just need a bit more explosives.

Then we agee

Look, my point with ME is simple. The ME1 classes had too much in common so Bioware rightly looked for ways to give each class its own flavor and unique playstyle. They did a great job with ME2 in that regard, but I'm afraid release came too soon for them to have a good look at the other powers, hence the addition of Ammo Powers for example (looks like a haste job to me). TA has some awesome effects, I'd like to keep those but I'm still not completely sure if the Sentinel is the class that should have these abilities, but we already have two casters (Adept & Engineer), why not have two CQC specialists (Vanguard & Sentinel).

I liked Sparroww's proposal to strip TA into a shield boosting ability, the shield's shockwave explosion and a squadpower reset button. Reduce cooldown a bit so all 3 powers can be used frequently and we're only two down to get to ME2 5 powers per class - grenades might be a cool option. Nice shotguns are available to all classes in ME3 so that isn't a problem. And the squadpower reset will still allow Sentinels to cast powers frequently although not their own. Looks pretty good to me