355 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rompa87 wrote...

Surely there must be some way for those who want to "live" through their character in a deep RPG without having a VO, and still get their way? I've seen some people suggest P'n'P RPG's here. Couldn't that be something for the old-schoolers?

Then you can self-voice all you want and create in-depth adventures on your own, without having to rely on pesky devs who might ruin "your" game?

Could you VO lovers just go watch a movie?
See, I can make redicolous arguments too.....

[Embargoed]

The internal voice thing works fine when there are NO voiced characters. At all. The system fails, for me at least, when everyone else has a voice and you don't. It makes all the other characters far more interesting because they can have an actual opinion that actually matters.

I can't remember a single memorable piece of dialogue that the Warden had. Yet I can remember many conversations that Hawke had with the other characters in the game. The Warden is a cardboard cutout that you can shape to your hearts content while Hawke is a semi-defined character.

I guess some people prefer the ability to create and customize something from the ground up. I prefer having something to work with at the start. Characters like Shepard and Hawke can be customized, but not to the extent that many people want. If BioWare were to go back to a voiceless PC, I would prefer it if they kept EVERYONE quiet. At least then I could imagine all of the voices internally and not have one character surpass another because of his or her's lack of voice.

Seriously, can anyone here legitimately remember a piece of memorable dialogue that the Warden had? Because I can't.

Modifié par Embargoed, 14 avril 2011 - 08:47 .

[Embargoed]

Double'd

Modifié par Embargoed, 14 avril 2011 - 08:47 .

[Tirigon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rompa87 wrote...

Surely there must be some way for those who want to "live" through their character in a deep RPG without having a VO, and still get their way? I've seen some people suggest P'n'P RPG's here. Couldn't that be something for the old-schoolers?

Then you can self-voice all you want and create in-depth adventures on your own, without having to rely on pesky devs who might ruin "your" game?

Could you VO lovers just go watch a movie?
See, I can make redicolous arguments too.....

The big problem of DA2 is that this comment isn´t quite as ridiculous as it should be. DA2 felt way too much like a movie with horrible graphics.

[Tpiom]

Do... How... What?

Why do we need another thread about this? The first thread, with 39 pages, is just fine for this sort of discussion. Also, Bioware, you have a problem - it's almost 50/50 even with this issue!

[DocDoomII]

Rompa87 wrote...

Surely there must be some way for those who want to "live" through their character in a deep RPG without having a VO, and still get their way? I've seen some people suggest P'n'P RPG's here. Couldn't that be something for the old-schoolers?

Then you can self-voice all you want and create in-depth adventures on your own, without having to rely on pesky devs who might ruin "your" game?

Brilliant.
I'll just go out and kidnap random people and force them to play with me whenever I want.

You know that P'n'P is not for single player?
Do you think it's easy to find people with the same interest? Find a common P'n'P rule set, and setting that everyone would like to play?
You realize that even if you manage to meet all those requirements, you still can't play whenever you feel like?


Sorry for the rant.

[AlanC9]

Play PnP via the internet, then. Back in the day I played AD&D on CompuServe. Nowadays you kids have it easy, since you've got broadband and video conferencing.

[the_one_54321]

How about you just go watch a movie and imagine you're the main the character.


These kinds of arguments don't mean anything.

[fchopin]

AlanC9 wrote...

Play PnP via the internet, then. Back in the day I played AD&D on CompuServe. Nowadays you kids have it easy, since you've got broadband and video conferencing.

Back in the days i was on CompuServe but i played poker.

[Eterna]

DA2 is Awsum wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DA2 is Awsum wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

DA2 is Awsum wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Pandaman102 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
 Because your warden had so many options as well.

DA:O isn't the only other RPG in existence, you realize.

 Right, but this is the Dragon Age forums and thus other RPG's are not worth mentioning.

You mean the franchise that started as a throwback to another, more famous and infinitely better, rpg called BG2? Who knew! 

 Opnions, I hear people have them.

Which is funny considering it was that guys opinion that you were trying to invalidate with your own. What? You think you're better than him? 

 Not really, no.

I was just correcting something that was wrong.

Oh? How was he wrong? Can i tell you "you're wrong" with no validation and you accept it like a good little sheep? baaaaa'aaaah.

 He's wrong because he said that you can't choose your characters personality.

[Riloux]

Disagree. Having a voiced PC destroys immersion and limits resources for other aspects of the game. After I read a line in my head, and choose it, I expect to hear a response.

[DocDoomII]

AlanC9 wrote...

Play PnP via the internet, then. Back in the day I played AD&D on CompuServe. Nowadays you kids have it easy, since you've got broadband and video conferencing.

You argument is so good that I'm almost sorry to have a need of playing alone.

The heck is compuserve anyway?

Modifié par DocDoomII, 14 avril 2011 - 11:03 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rompa87 wrote...

Surely there must be some way for those who want to "live" through their character in a deep RPG without having a VO, and still get their way? I've seen some people suggest P'n'P RPG's here. Couldn't that be something for the old-schoolers?

As I see it, the whole point of CRPGs is to reproduce tabletop RPG gameplay without the need for other people.

If we go back to tabletop, then we lose the one actual benefit of CRPGs.  That's no good.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 14 avril 2011 - 11:22 .

[Pandaman102]

AlanC9 wrote...

Play PnP via the internet, then. Back in the day I played AD&D on CompuServe. Nowadays you kids have it easy, since you've got broadband and video conferencing.

I don't know what kind of job you and your friends have that allow for spontaneous gaming any time of the day, any day of the week, but I've never seen a PnP game work on anything other than a weekly schedule. CRPGs may be a pale comparison to PnP RPGs, but they do fill the time (with the right type of entertainment) when games can't be run.

[Gatt9]

Rompa87 wrote...

Surely there must be some way for those who want to "live" through their character in a deep RPG without having a VO, and still get their way? I've seen some people suggest P'n'P RPG's here. Couldn't that be something for the old-schoolers?

Then you can self-voice all you want and create in-depth adventures on your own, without having to rely on pesky devs who might ruin "your" game?

I am fully in favour of voiced player characters, probably since I don't play my games imagining I'm actually in it myself.

Here's the thing...

It's not "Old-schoolers",  it's RPG players.  There's no "Old school",  despite what the gaming press might tell you in order to sell you yet another Shooter or Adventure game.

The simple arguement is,  Voiced PC's significantly reduce the number of options Developers have when creating an RPG,  and often yield no positive result other than letting people who hate RPGs not read the dialogue.  Some stories benefit from it,  but not all.

13 years ago I could play a CRPG that took my character's intelligence into account and offered appropriate dialogue.  Today,  CRPG's cannot,  because of Voice.

Which actually demonstrates that CRPGs are moving backwards in features.  CRPGs today offer less than they did in 1998.

So much for Laidlaw's "Evolution!"

[Dark83]

DocDoomII wrote...

The heck is compuserve anyway?

Oh gawd I'm so old.

[Tirigon]

Gatt9 wrote...

Which actually demonstrates that CRPGs are moving backwards in features.  CRPGs today offer less than they did in 1998.

So much for Laidlaw's "Evolution!"

i suppose he learned about evolution in the fantasy universe. Evolution there means creating weaker species.........

[simonc4175]

Tirigon wrote...



The big problem of DA2 is that this comment isn´t quite as ridiculous as it should be. DA2 felt way too much like a movie with horrible graphics.

In your opnion in felt like a movie.  Personally I think DA2 felt like a video game and not an interactive movie.

As for graphics there is nothing wrong with the series looks as DA2 acutally looks better than Origins.

[nowherekid85]

Embargoed wrote...
I can't remember a single memorable piece of dialogue that the Warden had. Yet I can remember many conversations that Hawke had with the other characters in the game. The Warden is a cardboard cutout that you can shape to your hearts content while Hawke is a semi-defined character.

I guess some people prefer the ability to create and customize something from the ground up. I prefer having something to work with at the start. Characters like Shepard and Hawke can be customized, but not to the extent that many people want. If BioWare were to go back to a voiceless PC, I would prefer it if they kept EVERYONE quiet. At least then I could imagine all of the voices internally and not have one character surpass another because of his or her's lack of voice.

Seriously, can anyone here legitimately remember a piece of memorable dialogue that the Warden had? Because I can't.

Exactly what I thought. After playing through DA2, I went back and redid Awakening to get some different options. It made me wonder how I enjoyed the warden so much. Selecting lines of text that the warden telepathically communicates to others made me realize how great of an improvement the voiced Hawke is.
While it may seem to many players that you don't have as much choice or influence over what Hawke says, reverting back to a mute PC is not the answer. You have to move foreward, and make improvements on a voiced PC.

[DocDoomII]

Dark83 wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

The heck is compuserve anyway?

Oh gawd I'm so old.

If the 83 in your nickname is the year you were born, then we are almost the same age. I was born in '84.
Nonetheless I've never heard of it.

Quoted from wikipedia:
"CompuServe (CompuServe Information Service, also known by its acronym CIS) was the first major commercial online service in the United States."

Right. I'm Italian. That must be it.

Pandaman102 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Play
PnP via the internet, then. Back in the day I played AD&D on
CompuServe. Nowadays you kids have it easy, since you've got broadband
and video conferencing.

I don't know what kind of job you and
your friends have that allow for spontaneous gaming any time of the
day, any day of the week, but I've never seen a PnP game work on
anything other than a weekly schedule. CRPGs may be a pale comparison to
PnP RPGs, but they do fill the time (with the right type of
entertainment) when games can't be run.

This.
I attempted somthing like DnD on IRC with people from a forum I frequented daily at the time.
We weren't even able to start the first session.

Modifié par DocDoomII, 15 avril 2011 - 09:01 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Embargoed wrote...

The internal voice thing works fine when there are NO voiced characters. At all. The system fails, for me at least, when everyone else has a voice and you don't. It makes all the other characters far more interesting because they can have an actual opinion that actually matters.

I can't remember a single memorable piece of dialogue that the Warden had. Yet I can remember many conversations that Hawke had with the other characters in the game. The Warden is a cardboard cutout that you can shape to your hearts content while Hawke is a semi-defined character.

I guess some people prefer the ability to create and customize something from the ground up. I prefer having something to work with at the start. Characters like Shepard and Hawke can be customized, but not to the extent that many people want. If BioWare were to go back to a voiceless PC, I would prefer it if they kept EVERYONE quiet. At least then I could imagine all of the voices internally and not have one character surpass another because of his or her's lack of voice.

Seriously, can anyone here legitimately remember a piece of memorable dialogue that the Warden had? Because I can't.

Information reinforced visuall and vocally is easier to remmber than just reading.
Try reading out the Wardens lines out loud...you'd remember them easier.

But to answer your question - yes. I cna remember pieces of the wardens dialogue. But that's not important. It's not the Wardens dialogue I should be remembering vividly, it's the NPC.

What do you remember better - things you said and how you said them, or things other said to you and how they said it?

[Jerrybnsn]

Ha! You lose!

[Supreez]

I wish there was a compromise where we had some of the cutscene dialogue from DA2 but also we had that simpler overtheshoulder dialogue that you can enter at anytime and ask those tedious but immersive questions that is kinda similar to reading the codex from origins. No PC voice in those sections and it would be there for those of us that really want to get to know these people better.

I found the fact that most dialogue in DA2 was, "oh were having a moment"(although i like those moments) non immersive. I need the ability to have a convo with someone without there being hoopla about it to feel like im in the world. If you don't have the more accessible mundane conversations to me cutscenes can actually be immersion breaking.

[Dezhem]

Let's face it, unvoiced characters in a 3d environment whom are expected to display facial expressions and appropriate emotions do not really work. It worked great in a 2d environment where this was not the case, but times have changed.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the breadth of dialogue options available in DAO as opposed to DA2, but overall, DA2 delivered an emotional impact better. I never felt really engaged with the silent, mostly expressionless Warden. It's easier to relate to Hawke, for me. Until the technology gets to the point where we can either synth our own voices into the game or have realistic sounding dialogue from a range of pre-selected voices, get used to many more 'Shephard/Hawke' protagonists.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Could you VO lovers just go watch a movie?
See, I can make redicolous arguments too.....

Except yours isn't so ridiculous.  I see far more similarity (in terms of player involvement) between a voiced-PC game and a movie than I do between a voiced-PC game and a silent-PC game.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 16 avril 2011 - 07:09 .