355 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I still think you can't make a direct comparison since they're different types of games.

Not to mention that Bethesda already has a higher base of fans that buy the games. Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas already outsell any game Bioware has ever made. If Skyrim delivers, then there will be even more buys.

At this stage, Bethesda would probably be disappointed if Skyrim sales total less than 5-6 million. Which is already a good million more than any game Bioware has ever made.

The obvious comparison to make would be DA:O v DA 2. All we can do about that currently is speculate.

But I highly doubt that DA 2 will beat DA:O in sales.

DA:O had a very healthy sales rate when in the spotlight.

DA 2 on the other hand, started to flat line at week 3/4 after the pre orders and early buyers were finished. Word of mouth definitely isn't helping either.

[Sainthood85]

While Im sure someone will make a DA:O style all text before choosing dialogue option, no wheel, no voice protagonist mod. DA:2 sounds like it will be far from saving.

I guess we will all look back at DA:2 as "That really bad one"

[fchopin]

I have no problem with a voiced pc so i don’t really want to go back to old ways but i also want to roleplay games.

There is no reason for developers to take away roleplaying elements out of games pretending that it’s the way forward, you can invent new and better ways given the technology but it has to be done in such a way to allow people to roleplay their games.

[thegrimfandango]

My problem with silent protagonists nowadays isn't the fact that they're silent, it's that it limits the range of expressions and movements available to them, which can make them feel rather static and mannequin-like in comparison with voiced companions. This wasn't an issue in older RPGs, where you were dealing with isometric viewpoints and smaller sprites and such, but in new, fully 3D games, it can seem somewhat jarring when you're dealing with the level of graphical fidelity we have now to have a character that you mostly only see the back of their head while they stand still to hid the fact the'ye not actually saying any lines, while other characters pace about and gesture etc.
One thing I'm interested in is how the people who made up their own voice for the silent warden in origins reconciled this with the combat/actions voice since you had to pick one. I'm not sure I saw much point in inventing a voice if my PC was going to yell out things during fights etc that didn't sound anything like the one I imagined. It's not a game-breaker, especially since I'll happily play older RPGs, but in newer games, I find it makes my PC seem rather static.

[Monica83]

The real problem isn't the voice per se.. but the damn dialog wheel that don't allow you to roleplay a character....

[AkiKishi]

fchopin wrote...

I have no problem with a voiced pc so i don’t really want to go back to old ways but i also want to roleplay games.

There is no reason for developers to take away roleplaying elements out of games pretending that it’s the way forward, you can invent new and better ways given the technology but it has to be done in such a way to allow people to roleplay their games.

There is a key difference a lot of people are not seeming to grasp. In DA2/ME all lines are written for a specific character. It's just variation on that character.
The more traditional approach is to write replies that relate to any character, by stringing these various replies together, your characters personality emerges. It's not just a case of being "Jesus, Hitler, or a Complete Tool".

[Tripedius]

Faust1979 wrote...

 It was good for the past but really reading text boxes and having no voice is like taking a step back to the past. Are there gamers that want to go back to having to draw your own maps and lots of time sinks just to pad the game out and make it feel like it is longer than it really is? these are the types of cinematic RPGs Bioware has been building to since Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. These are the types of games I dreamed about as a kid hearing the voices making the game feel more life like. It would suck going back to the past.  I don't really think I could sit through anymore where the game is vague at best so you don't know exactly what you need to do just so the game makers can make you feel like the game is longer than it is. 

I guess you don't like the codex entries either? Or quests, cause those are still to be read. A voice is fine just not if it hampers things that will get cut because of it.

[ChickenDownUnder]

/puts on I'm an Old Bastard hat

Gather 'round, folks. I have a story to tell.

Back in my day there was a bit of a boom in the game industry called 'interactive movies,' where actors where hired not just to voice lines, but act out movements and etc to fit various options the player wanted to do. Prime example being the game Phantasmorgia.

But it was expensive as all hell to hire those actors and camera use for long term. You'd get games that were seven disks long. Yet, at that time it was innovative! Great! No longer were game designers forced to toil away at trying to drag the modicum of emotion from their little pixelated sprites. Just pay actors!

Unfortunately not all actors where created equal, despite huge cost, with some being better at conveying emotion than others. So the trend faded and here we are today, though I hear LA Noire is gunna bring that back somewhat, at least from the neck up.

If it is too expensive to hire an actor that can meet the demands of multiple dialogue paths for the main character, then just don't do it. Much rather have unvoiced main character lines that provide many options to choose from, than a few options from a struggling actor.

[TJSolo]

I don't care either way since most of the jRPGs and action adventure games I play have voiced main characters, nothing new there. However, those games never r offered multiple race, sex, and class options for the player in their first game. So if it comes down to getting all those choices back or having a voice male/female character I prefer the one with more options.

I think the OP is confusing watching a movie with playing games.

There are many genres of games and cRPGs happen to be better suited to implement worlds full of distractions for the players to delve into alongside the main quest or instead of. I would never want the the same level of distraction in a game like Halo but is fine for Borderlands.

Game length depends on the player and is not like a movie with a static runtime. Adding in time consuming elements increases the playtime for the players that want to use that element.

[element eater]

Incantrix wrote...

I think it would be better if we could sort of choose our voice, alas tis only a dream.

Anyway, yes I agree, the voice is nicer but most old schoolers will disagree due to their stubborness with new things.

actualy it would be awsome to pick from a list of possible voices although this will probably never happen,
 and as an old 'schooler' i do prefer no voice and its not because of being stubborn it because of personal prefferance a character never feels like its your creation when its speaking with a voice you dont choose, especialy if its a voice you dont like

[Nozybidaj]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


FO:3 obviously sold more and won more GoTY awards but personally, man that's a really tough call.  I greatly enjoyed both those games.

Now let's predict for 2011 between DA2 and Skyrim.  One has a vo character and the other won't, one has the dialogue wheel and the other will have sentences listed for selection.

Who do you think will win RPG of the year and outsell the other?

I think that is pretty obvious.   Skyrim will have very few 'real' contenders for GotY.

[Tirigon]

Incantrix wrote...

I think it would be better if we could sort of choose our voice, alas tis only a dream.

Anyway, yes I agree, the voice is nicer but most old schoolers will disagree due to their stubborness with new things.

Or some young people like me will disagree because we want good games, not bad interactive movies.

[Jerrybnsn]

Fallout New Vegas sold over 5 million copies last year in just three weeks. Again, they use a silent protanginist. Why doesn't Bethesda see that they are not evolving properly?

[Lotion Soronarr]

thegrimfandango wrote...

My problem with silent protagonists nowadays isn't the fact that they're silent, it's that it limits the range of expressions and movements available to them, which can make them feel rather static and mannequin-like in comparison with voiced companions. This wasn't an issue in older RPGs, where you were dealing with isometric viewpoints and smaller sprites and such, but in new, fully 3D games, it can seem somewhat jarring when you're dealing with the level of graphical fidelity we have now to have a character that you mostly only see the back of their head while they stand still to hid the fact the'ye not actually saying any lines, while other characters pace about and gesture etc.
One thing I'm interested in is how the people who made up their own voice for the silent warden in origins reconciled this with the combat/actions voice since you had to pick one. I'm not sure I saw much point in inventing a voice if my PC was going to yell out things during fights etc that didn't sound anything like the one I imagined. It's not a game-breaker, especially since I'll happily play older RPGs, but in newer games, I find it makes my PC seem rather static.

I don't see what's stopping devs from adding gestculation to the PC, even if not voiced.

[5ubzer0]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I can understain wanting voiced NPCs...but no reading? No text?

That's like an insult to intellect and good sense.

Claiming that you don't know what you should do and that games are vauge, because you can't be arsed to READ. The lazyness and poor education of today astounds me...

The elitism found in this thread astounds me. Clearly, there can only be two explanations, why people may prefer a fully voiced protagonist, right?

a) they are console gamers
they are intellectually inferior

Well, I don't consider gaming an intellectual pursuit. Now contrary to popular opinion, you can enjoy a voiced player character, be highly educated and read books in your free time. It's amazing, I know!

Personally, none of the dialogue choices in DA came close to what I wanted my heroine to say. I found that more immersion breaking than the dialogue wheel. At least, with Hawke you never knew what he/she was going to say.

[plokoon9619]

All you people who want a main character with a voice need to realize that having that voice means its much harder to even diversify the story. You can't have a dwarf/elevan/human all with the same voice, and Bioware isn't going to have multiple voice actors to be picked from for your voice. So you might as well say good bye to Origin stories in the future, story dialogue branching because its costs too much to have multiple dialogue paths that end up with different results when you put a voice actor for the main PC, longer dialogue conversations, having the ability to pick what you want to say, and character customization.

[ItsToofy]

Dragon Age 2 - 4.5 million to go to prove that VO protagonist and dialogue wheel is better than silent protagonist + dialogue tree (Fallout: New Vegas)

2.5 million to go to prove that the DA2 model is better than Dragon Age: Origins.

Dragon Age: Origins still holds a sales lead over ME2

If we put this all together, it seems like the silent protagonist, dialogue tree, choices matter, slower and more tactical approach with no filler waves with a decent inventory system and upgrade system that actually plays like RPG's of the past, sell well...any questions?

[Monica83]

ItsToofy wrote...

Dragon Age 2 - 4.5 million to go to prove that VO protagonist and dialogue wheel is better than silent protagonist + dialogue tree (Fallout: New Vegas)

2.5 million to go to prove that the DA2 model is better than Dragon Age: Origins.

Dragon Age: Origins still holds a sales lead over ME2

If we put this all together, it seems like the silent protagonist, dialogue tree, choices matter, slower and more tactical approach with no filler waves with a decent inventory system and upgrade system that actually plays like RPG's of the past, sell well...any questions?

This but i must admit ladiaw have right...

Press a button and something awesome happens!: The unistall one:devil:

[Bladehoth]

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

[ItsToofy]

Bladehoth wrote...

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

I can save her the trouble and mention that Zelda has been action/adventure for quite some time now.

Also, Dialogue wheel is very similar if not worse, left side of wheel are filler questions that just add flavor, right 3 choices are good, snarky, douchebag. Though with the text tree there are sometimes 2 differant type of good or snarky or bad, there's more than just 3 types at times, sometimes 4 or even 5. Also, persuade and intimidate skills have been removed for saintly or douchebaggery scores, resulting in new options that lead to the same effect, just something minor happens (like for instance, one person likes your response more rather than the basic 3 choices), the intimidate and persuade options actually allowed for alternate ways of completing quests, i never really saw that in DA2 or even in Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 1 was on the right track but they started over with it and went in a differant direction.

And it IS a paraphrase....is what you select EXACTLY what is said on screen? no? thank you...

Modifié par ItsToofy, 12 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[Bladehoth]

How are the questions on the left side of the wheel filler or just flavor? Every selection delivers a different voiced response as well as a different NPC response.

And no, Zelda is an rpg.

[xkg]

Bladehoth wrote...

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

while talking about BEST RPG i hope youre not talking about this Zelda :

"The Legend of Zelda​ (ゼルダの伝説, Zeruda no Densetsu?), occasionally called Legend of Zelda or simply Zelda, is a high fantasy action-adventure video game series .... "