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[5ubzer0]

ItsToofy wrote...

Dragon Age 2 - 4.5 million to go to prove that VO protagonist and dialogue wheel is better than silent protagonist + dialogue tree (Fallout: New Vegas)

I find it funny that you bring up Fallout Vegas. Especially, after all the hate the game generated for not being a "real rpg."  Sure, the first two games were classics. All I remember from the sequels is that I spent a lot of time in a desert blowing up slavers. It certainly felt like playing a fps.

You may as well compare DA2 to the Sims.

[Bladehoth]

xkg wrote...

Bladehoth wrote...

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

while talking about BEST RPG i hope youre not talking about this Zelda :

"The Legend of Zelda​ (ゼルダの伝説, Zeruda no Densetsu?), occasionally called Legend of Zelda or simply Zelda, is a high fantasy action-adventure video game series .... "

Definately not talking about that one. 

Modifié par Bladehoth, 12 avril 2011 - 04:55 .

[Jim_uk]

I don't mind voiced NPCs, it does mean they have less to say but I can live with that. What I don't like is having my character voiced, it's no longer my character then, it's Biowares.

[ItsToofy]

5ubzer0 wrote...

ItsToofy wrote...

Dragon Age 2 - 4.5 million to go to prove that VO protagonist and dialogue wheel is better than silent protagonist + dialogue tree (Fallout: New Vegas)

I find it funny that you bring up Fallout Vegas. Especially, after all the hate the game generated for not being a "real rpg."  Sure, the first two games were classics. All I remember from the sequels is that I spent a lot of time in a desert blowing up slavers. It certainly felt like playing a fps.

You may as well compare DA2 to the Sims.

Then how is one even supposed to compare Fallout 2 to Fallout: New Vegas according to this logic? as obviously they were differant types of RPGs.

Fallout 3 generated that hate, mostly from the original Fallout fanbase, New Vegas was a return to roots with Bethesda's mechanics, couldn't exactly go back to the old mold when someone else has the reigns of the IP

And I would compare DA2 to The Sims: Hot Date

[ItsToofy]

Bladehoth wrote...

xkg wrote...

Bladehoth wrote...

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

while talking about BEST RPG i hope youre not talking about this Zelda :

"The Legend of Zelda​ (ゼルダの伝説, Zeruda no Densetsu?), occasionally called Legend of Zelda or simply Zelda, is a high fantasy action-adventure video game series .... "

Definately not talking about that one. 

They're pretty much ALL listed as Action Adventure

[Bladehoth]

Jim_uk wrote...

I don't mind voiced NPCs, it does mean they have less to say but I can live with that. What I don't like is having my character voiced, it's no longer my character then, it's Biowares.

I understand the feeling but, there hasn't been an rpg that has been the player's for some time.  In the 1st Dragon Age, your last name was predetermined.  History was predetermined~   Same can be said for Fallout, your the son of what's his face with a predetermined last name and history etc.  The only rpg that I can think of at the moment that has the character mostly yours might be Oblivion and games in it's past series.

[thegrimfandango]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I don't see what's stopping devs from adding gestculation to the PC, even if not voiced.

I don't remember seeing it done in any games that I've played, so I can't comment on how that would work out. When I try to picture it, I can see it very easily heading down looks-like-a-bad-mime-artist avenue though, and there'd still be the problem of reconciling an animated-looking PC with the fact they need to hide that they're 'saying' lines but the mouth isn't moving.
As I said though, I'd have to see a few attempts at such scenes before I could really judge such an approach.

[5ubzer0]

ItsToofy wrote...

Then how is one even supposed to compare Fallout 2 to Fallout: New Vegas according to this logic? as obviously they were differant types of RPGs.

And I would compare DA2 to The Sims: Hot Date

Well, my point is that you should not compare them at all. Basing your argument "rpgs without dialogue wheel are more successful" on Fallout Vegas sales numbers makes no sense whatsover. Assuming you have played it, you must know, it's a very different type of game.

Then again, it is possible that Sims: Hot Date also sold better. Perhaps you wish to suggest some gibberish language instead of text or dialogue wheel for DA3. Add more housing options and I might actually support this.

[ItsToofy]

Now we're at the point where we can't compare an RPG to an RPG anymore cause they are differant types of games. Well honestly, dragon age:origins and da2 are essentially differant types of rpg's as well, so are we to say now that we can't compare a sequel to the original because of sub-genre?

And how else do we compare success of games and the mechanics they use and if they work? Metacritic scores? Surely you jest..

[Cataca]

Bladehoth wrote...

Maybe a lot of the complainers missed it but part of the replay value alone is the different voice and responses.

The Zelda series (touted as one of the best rpg series of all time) has no response options .. at all. I just see a lot of spoiled kids complaining about things they take for granted.

For those that are satisfied and wish for the old DA:O System to return, you realized that options 4-6 were often just flavor text and didn't give a different reaction from one of the choices 1-3 right? Any fan of Bioware rpgs has seen this.

Dialog wheel- I enjoy being pleasantly surprised by what is said when I chose a tone or thought option. I think many make the mistake in believing it's a paraphrase rather than a thought or state of mind in the reply.

Yes, bold this Sabrianna and maybe offer something that supports your argument.

Look, everyone has different opinnions on things, and that is fine. But just saying that "different replies" = replay value is bull. Replay value would be when your choices actually influence the story, which with DA2 is not really the case. You can also hardly claim that "choices" only ammount to how much of a douchebag you decide to be. After all, the only solution to dragon age 2 for everything is to

a. Slaughter all
b. Slaughter one faction
and very rarely be diplomatic

It just makes it harder for me to take the game seriously. Heaving the emphasis on combat is totally fine, heaving cut out everything else is not.  And, to compare to Fallout, at least depending on how i built my character, i had ways to go about things that DA2 would never allow me. Sneaking past things, repairing an elevator to avoid combat, hacking something.... not to say that i could actually choose who to work for, and betray them if i wanted to. 

All that makes an rpg an rpg, DA 2 for me is like roleplaying watching a homocidal maniac with terrible personality disorder issues. If at least the dialogue wheel was done well (bioware did show how it is done in ME1/2 ) but as-is half the time you have to guess what hawke will say, the other half, even if you stick to one reply flavour, she totally breaks out of character. And, as i said allready, the voiceacting was totally atrocious. Totally void of any emotion, bored and unconvincing. I would rather read my replies and imagine how they sound, thank you very much.


Edit: Every single instance of zelda has allways been an adventure game, how you ever came up with it beeing an RPG is totally beyond me, even if you reduce an RPG to its very basic features, Zelda had NONE of them. I also enjoyed Ocarina of Time a great deal... but an RPG?

Modifié par Cataca, 12 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Strangely Brown wrote...

I prefer voiced PC's. The only thing I wish they did better was actually say something along the lines of the choices they offered. Far too often I select a choice and the words the PC says are nothing like what I chose and often don't illustrate the correct emotion they are supposed to.

I don't like this option.  I just played Two Worlds where the main voiced character does this and it's annoying as can be.  My brain registeres the sentence all ready on what will be said, and then he slooooowly says what was already registered in my mind.  I'd rather go with the voice and the delivery  in my which takes a split second then wait on a gesturing predetermined character.  I mean, did it give anyone else the creeps when Sheppard smiled? 

[Einherjar420]

I see people telling others to go watch a movie if they want to hear a character with voice. In that case, why don't those who want to read text, pick up a book?

Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

Of course, there is also those people who feel the need to insult people who choose to play on consoles, and call them idiots without even using proper spelling or grammar. Good show.

I choose to play on a console because I started playing games on them. From NES all the way to current generation. I also prefer the ease of use of a controller over the keyboard and mouse. This somewhow makes me an idiot?

Back on-topic: I'm a casual gamer, because I have to work so I can continue playing video games and such. That being said, I like Voiced characters. In all forms. I've stated in other posts that I enjoyed Dragon Age II far more than Dragon Age: Origins. Hawke having a voice is only 1 reason for that. I found Dragon Age: Orgins' story to be too cliche, and the only memorable parts of it for me were the side quests. After my first playthrough of Dragon Age: Origins, I could not play again. Around 60+ hours and I had finished almost everything, save for some side quests that didn't seem important at all.

I'm on my second playthrough of Dragon Age II, and my first playthrough was 72+ hours. I plan on playing a third time as well, to fix the story of my Mage Hawke. In my oppinion, Dragon Age: Origins was superior in 1 way: less glitches. Dragon Age II's glitches didn't bother me much. A certain one in Act 3 confused me a bit, but nothing more.

I fear I have strayed too far from the topic. Perhaps this rant was better served in another thread, oh well.

Everyone I know would prefer voiced protaganists over silent ones, but they would also read if they had to. It's a 50/50 thing. Some prefer one over the other, some like both. I read books, so I appreciate that protaganists have a voice. I like reading, but I only ever read for an hour at best. I play video games for at least 3.
There is really no need to insult people's intelligence or lay claims to one game being inferior to another just because your oppinion dictates it. Everyone will enjoy game A, while disliking game B, and vice versa. Others will like both. It's just the way things work.

The unfortunate reality for those who prefer to read text in a video game is that voiced protaganists are going to appear more and more. I wouldn't doubt if Bethesda begins to use voice over for Elder Scrolls and Fallout eventually too.

[Jerrybnsn]

Bladehoth wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...

I don't mind voiced NPCs, it does mean they have less to say but I can live with that. What I don't like is having my character voiced, it's no longer my character then, it's Biowares.

I understand the feeling but, there hasn't been an rpg that has been the player's for some time.  In the 1st Dragon Age, your last name was predetermined.  History was predetermined~   Same can be said for Fallout, your the son of what's his face with a predetermined last name and history etc.  The only rpg that I can think of at the moment that has the character mostly yours might be Oblivion and games in it's past series.

With a cinematic game like Mass Effect, Sheppard is the icon of that game.  His face is on the cover/ that's the way he suppose to be play.  The customation screen doesn't give you much options, so I always go with the default Sheppard.  And from the videos I've seen on Youtube about Dragon Age, a lot of folks have gone with the defualt male & female Hawk.

Yet is the Grey Warden the icon for Dragon Age Origins? No.  He/She is yours.

[spell trigger]

I have no problem playing the voiced character, as long as I am able to use different voice sets for different playthroughs. This is not an option in DA2 and I doubt that BW intends to implement it in upcoming games.

The main problem in DA2 is the paraphrasing system (i.e. being unable to chose your own dialogue lines).

[Nozybidaj]

Einherjar420 wrote...
Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

I dunno, if I pick up the latest Tiger Woods golf game and play as Tiger Woods am I playing an rpg or a sports game?

[MyKingdomCold]

I liked the different tones Hawke can speak.

Once while Isabela was teasing Carver about him visiting the brothel, my sarcastic Hawke chimed in and said he was going to tell mother.

[Einherjar420]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...
Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

I dunno, if I pick up the latest Tiger Woods golf game and play as Tiger Woods am I playing an rpg or a sports game?

Well, you're playing the role of Tiger Woods, in the sport of Golf. So both.

[Jerrybnsn]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...
Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

I dunno, if I pick up the latest Tiger Woods golf game and play as Tiger Woods am I playing an rpg or a sports game?

Does something awesome happen when you push a button?

[Nozybidaj]

Einherjar420 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...
Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

I dunno, if I pick up the latest Tiger Woods golf game and play as Tiger Woods am I playing an rpg or a sports game?

Well, you're playing the role of Tiger Woods, in the sport of Golf. So both.

/facepalm  Why does that answer not surprise me on this forum?

Does something awesome happen when you push a button?

It's golf.  So no nothing "awesome" happens.  The caddy doesn't explode into a fine red mist when you swing the driver.  Tiger doesn't shadowy teleport from one hole to the next.  There are no large breasted female golfers riding in the cart with you.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 12 avril 2011 - 06:13 .

[Halo Quea]

The problem is that the complexity of the dialogue wheel needs to be expanded. Too many times while playing I felt that the most aggressive response was either unnecessary or not in keeping with the way my character behaves. The peaceful response was often too passive, and the sarcastic responses would sometimes be both inappropriate and/or apathetic.

The dialogue wheel should look and expand like this-

Saintly-Cooperative
Humorous
Cynical-Curt
Pragmatic-Facilitative
Aggressive-Warning
Violent

Of course an expanded wheel with responses that branch out in this manner would mean a great deal more voice work and cost considerably more. But as Bladehoth mentioned earlier, what difference would an expanded wheel make? Voiced or not, if you are given additional dialogue options that actually only play out in one to three ways then it's just dialogue overkill.

[barryl89]

Tabletop RPG's are the only true RPG's. The rest are video games of one kind or another.

Now I don't play DnD or any of those games. My favourite form of role-playing is forum role-playing. Simple text based, you create your character and write a paragraph or more a post. If you get a group of people together it can be tremendous fun.

I certainly didn't buy DAO or DA2 to specifically role play.
I bought them because I liked the group based combat, the same reason I like certain FF games.
I also like oblivion and already love Skyrim.
I love playing FIFA games, I adored Fable 2 and liked Fable 3. I'm not a big shooter fan but I loved Half life 2, gears of war, GTA:SA and RDR.

People can have varied interests and opinions. A lot of people on forums just like complaining and argueing. I know I enjoy argueing over silly little points all the time

[Einherjar420]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...
Straying off-topic: I also see people claim Dragon Age 2 is not a Role Playing Game. I don't understand this. You're playing the role of Hawke. Is that not role playing?

I dunno, if I pick up the latest Tiger Woods golf game and play as Tiger Woods am I playing an rpg or a sports game?

Well, you're playing the role of Tiger Woods, in the sport of Golf. So both.

/facepalm  Why does that answer not surprise me on this forum?

It is role playing whether you like it or not. Game mechanics won't change that.

I do not know why that answer does not surprise you. I am not a regular on this forum, I'm not a regular on any forum so I don't know what people say.

I find forums to be annoying and generally pointless except when it comes to constructive ctriticism. Other than that, you have people calling each other idiots and saying one is wrong while the other is right. In between that are a bunch of ass kissers who don't seem to share their own oppinion.

[Jerrybnsn]

Nozybidaj wrote...

[

Does something awesome happen when you push a button?

It's golf.  So no nothing "awesome" happens.  The caddy doesn't explode into a fine red mist when you swing the driver.  Tiger doesn't shadowy teleport from one hole to the next.  There are no large breasted female golfers riding in the cart with you.

I can see the Tiger Woods franchise is not evolving.  Maybe next time they'll have a voice golfer that you used. Even though the voice won't be Tiger Woods, that would be what everyone would want because it's the future.

[Einherjar420]

barryl89 wrote...

Tabletop RPG's are the only true RPG's. The rest are video games of one kind or another.

Now I don't play DnD or any of those games. My favourite form of role-playing is forum role-playing. Simple text based, you create your character and write a paragraph or more a post. If you get a group of people together it can be tremendous fun.

I certainly didn't buy DAO or DA2 to specifically role play.
I bought them because I liked the group based combat, the same reason I like certain FF games.
I also like oblivion and already love Skyrim.
I love playing FIFA games, I adored Fable 2 and liked Fable 3. I'm not a big shooter fan but I loved Half life 2, gears of war, GTA:SA and RDR.

People can have varied interests and opinions. A lot of people on forums just like complaining and argueing. I know I enjoy argueing over silly little points all the time

Complainers logging on to complain, haters logging on to hate? That seems like such a waste of time. Everyone is free to choose how they spend their time though. Hallelujah, freedom exists somewhere!

Our oppinion here is the same, except that I don't like arguing, and never will. I also play NHL games instead of FIFA.