355 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It would be nice to have multiple fully recorded voices for PC creation, but it would also be very expensive and time intensive for Bioware to hire then record the actors recording for the PC. Also you can't record enough voices to fully cover the possible backgrounds of all the races (if Bioware plans to ever again offer player race options), temperments, both genders or social standings. A low born dwarf would talk differently than a high born dwarf for example, as would a Dalish elf from a city elf or a human chasind from a human noble. All the accents, tones, diction would be impossible to include in a RPG voiceover for the main character. So either you include the player freedoms to maintain a wide variety of main characters or you give a very limited set main protagonist and voice it.

I would prefer the greater variety of player options and have text for dialogue as the tradeoff rather than be stuck with a set main character I don't feel I have much influence over in creation. Creating the main character is one thing I always enjoy in a computer RPG. Voice overs for the protagonist come across as a fad to me. It's nifty and fun to witness for half a minute but quickly loses it's novelty as soon as I see all it's limitations.

[Lotion Soronarr]

5ubzer0 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I can understain wanting voiced NPCs...but no reading? No text?

That's like an insult to intellect and good sense.

Claiming that you don't know what you should do and that games are vauge, because you can't be arsed to READ. The lazyness and poor education of today astounds me...

The elitism found in this thread astounds me. Clearly, there can only be two explanations, why people may prefer a fully voiced protagonist, right?

a) they are console gamers
they are intellectually inferior

Well, I don't consider gaming an intellectual pursuit. Now contrary to popular opinion, you can enjoy a voiced player character, be highly educated and read books in your free time. It's amazing, I know!

Personally, none of the dialogue choices in DA came close to what I wanted my heroine to say. I found that more immersion breaking than the dialogue wheel. At least, with Hawke you never knew what he/she was going to say.

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:


fun fact:
 - non voiced protagonist makes more options and content possinle.

[xkg]

5ubzer0 wrote...

At least, with Hawke you never knew what he/she was going to say.

[Persuade/Lie] : "Oh man .. i was foolish until now. You have totally conviced me. Im playing MY character in cRPG game and why the hell would i want to know what am i going to say. That was foolish of me - now i see that"

[Bostur]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

Maybe roll a dice for it?


Elderly smelly woman: Oh noble hero, please have pity with a poor hag. My son disappeared 3 nights ago and I'm too old and fragile to search for him. Could you help me please?
Hawke: ....
Elderly smelly woman: (I guess he didn't hear me)
Elderly smelly woman: Oh noble hero...
Hawke: I heard you, just one moment I'm rolling for dialogue.
clunkitclunkylunk (sound of dice rolling)
Elderly smelly woman: So?
Hawke: 5 - That would be: Your mother smells of elderberry and your father was a toaster.
Elderly smelly woman: 'Toaster'? Wots that?
Hawke: Hell if I know, but thats what it says right here at the number 5.

[Teredan]

Strangly for the DA universe I greatly prefer the silent protagonist. Whereas I can barely imagine an unvoiced Mass Effect. But mind you 2 games per IP are not much to judge on. So I'll try to stay openminded maybe Bioware can change my current preferences. Also I don't see a voiced protagonist as an evolution to the silent one. It is just a different take on things.

[Tirigon]

Bostur wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

Maybe roll a dice for it?


Elderly smelly woman: Oh noble hero, please have pity with a poor hag. My son disappeared 3 nights ago and I'm too old and fragile to search for him. Could you help me please?
Hawke: ....
Elderly smelly woman: (I guess he didn't hear me)
Elderly smelly woman: Oh noble hero...
Hawke: I heard you, just one moment I'm rolling for dialogue.
clunkitclunkylunk (sound of dice rolling)
Elderly smelly woman: So?
Hawke: 5 - That would be: Your mother smells of elderberry and your father was a toaster.
Elderly smelly woman: 'Toaster'? Wots that?
Hawke: Hell if I know, but thats what it says right here at the number 5.

Can only roll a D3 in DA2, not a D6.

Option 4 to 6 have keen removed because more than 3 options at the right side is too much, and the left is only investigate and companion interaction, so you can´t use that either.

[Tirigon]

Teredan wrote...

Strangly for the DA universe I greatly prefer the silent protagonist. Whereas I can barely imagine an unvoiced Mass Effect.

I don´t find that strange at all.

A voiced protagonist fits ME perfectly because, unlike DAO and (supposedly, sadly not for real) DA2, it is not an RPG..........

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

For me it depends on the camera perspectives a great deal. I do not want a voiced protagonist in a first person RPG like The Elder Scrolls. That breaks immersion for me. I think with Deus Ex: HR the camera goes to third person for conversations but I'm not sure.

However, if I see my characters face in cinematic conversations it seems odd that the character just stands mute -- it feels awkward. Looking back, I think it would have been better if BioWare found a way to not show your character's face at all during conversations.

I definitely did not like the way DA2 was handled. I'm tired of simplified conversation wheels just to have a voiced protagonist.

[5ubzer0]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

It's rather endearing how you try to miss my point. Clearly it's superior to read through all the "flirty," "I am a total pushover" or "end dialogue" responses to find the one I dislike the least. Two minute breaks in every conversation, while I check the options, feels very natural. No, wait, it doesn't.

Renegade Shepard works for me, as does aggressive Hawke. But then again, I don't buy into this "I need to know every single word my character says in advance!!!" obsession. Perhaps you need to learn to let go?

[Dragoonlordz]

5ubzer0 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

It's rather endearing how you try to miss my point. Clearly it's superior to read through all the "flirty," "I am a total pushover" or "end dialogue" responses to find the one I dislike the least. Two minute breaks in every conversation, while I check the options, feels very natural. No, wait, it doesn't.

Renegade Shepard works for me, as does aggressive Hawke. But then again, I don't buy into this "I need to know every single word my character says in advance!!!" obsession. Perhaps you need to learn to let go?

So your one of those people who spurts out words without taking time to think what you are going to say first? Thats the way DA2 works as opposed to DAO where you think about what you say and you say it end result being you say what you wanted to say. There's a reason why the term 'think about what your going to say before you say it' exists, DA2 fails to grasp that concept and breaks the immersion because of it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 13 avril 2011 - 04:38 .

[Cataca]

5ubzer0 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

It's rather endearing how you try to miss my point. Clearly it's superior to read through all the "flirty," "I am a total pushover" or "end dialogue" responses to find the one I dislike the least. Two minute breaks in every conversation, while I check the options, feels very natural. No, wait, it doesn't.

Renegade Shepard works for me, as does aggressive Hawke. But then again, I don't buy into this "I need to know every single word my character says in advance!!!" obsession. Perhaps you need to learn to let go?

The dialogue wheel wasnt the bad thing in DA2, but how it was implemented was. It worked perfectly in ME, i could guess what i was going to reply, and for a fast(ish) paced game like it, it felt quite right. The wheel in DA2 however was utter trash. The paraphrasing was off, in the sense that the paraphrases didnt fit what you were going to say half the time, and the other half the atrocious voiceacting did their bit to break the immersion.

I can understand you defending the wheel and such, i dont think its a bad thing if implemented properly. I do think it doesnt quite fit in a "proper" rpg but thats a matter of taste. I at least hope that if the next part comes they will at least try to hire a good voiceactor. But i will most certainly wait for user reviews before buying the next one, thats for sure.

[DanaScu]

5ubzer0 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not knowing what the PC is going to say is somehow a good thing? ...:lol:

It's rather endearing how you try to miss my point. Clearly it's superior to read through all the "flirty," "I am a total pushover" or "end dialogue" responses to find the one I dislike the least. Two minute breaks in every conversation, while I check the options, feels very natural. No, wait, it doesn't.

Renegade Shepard works for me, as does aggressive Hawke. But then again, I don't buy into this "I need to know every single word my character says in advance!!!" obsession. Perhaps you need to learn to let go?

Two minutes? I never took speed reading in school, and unless it was a subject that really required care, like Chaucer in Middle English, or Milton, I can read most things a lot faster than that. Very few games have dialogue on the level of the Canterbury Tales or Paradise Lost.

When I speak with someone in RL I don't blurt out every word that passes through my mind. Taking *a few seconds* to consider what I'm going to say feels very natural. Taking a few seconds to read replies feels the same. Of course, I'm not usually playing as psycho bi-polar Shepard; when I want to end an interview, knowing in advance that Shepard will say "Enough. I'm finished with you." or haul off and break the reporter's jaw when the option on the wheel o'hints says "This interview is over." matters to me. Saves time over saving before each conversation and reloading when the wheel o'hints gives me a "why the ninth level of Cania did she say *that*?" moment.

Perhaps the school systems should go back to the "Reading is Fundamental" campaign? Although I was in school long before that came around.

[17thknight]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I only played the demo, but here is my example of problems in voice acting for DAII.

Your sister is being threaten by a Templer, whom you just saved, the ungrateful bastard. I want to lop his head off. I'm presented with choices and immediately disregard the first two because I know they are nice and funny and I don't want to be nice or funny. I select confrontational that is paraphrased "Stay away from my sister!" But I get in a calm, English gentleman voice:

"Just so you know, I'm with Bethany."

Talk about breaking immersion, in my mind Hawk already held his seven foot long broad sword out in front of theTempler and said with a meanacing growl "Stay away from my sister!"

No if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play more Fallout 3. I'm looking for my Dad, Liam Neeson. He's out there somewhere in the Wastelands and I'll kill every mutant rat or human that gets in my way.

Absolutely, that was the most bizarre, idiotic thing I'd ever seen in an RPG dialogue.

This jackass threatens your sister, you get a big red-fist option with that terrible emoticon system, and a choice saying "Stay away from my sister!"

Of course you choose this, because this jerk is threatening your family. And what is the response?

"I'm with Bethany."

Well whoopdy ****in doo.

I predicted this bull**** 9 months ago with the thread I made about it. You choose an option, and the result is 180 degrees the opposite of your intent. Even with their garbage emoticon symbols it doesn't help in the least.

Hey, maybe you could, you know, let us actually choose what our character says by giving us the ACTUAL DIALOGUE instead of

"Stay away from y sister!" *ANGRY RED FIST*  and the result "I'm with Bethany".

Modifié par 17thknight, 13 avril 2011 - 05:16 .

[Pedrak]

My problem with a voiced PC is not the "immersion" thing - I mean, unless the voice acting is downright atrocious. And yeah, cutscenes with a voiced PC are kind of cool.

The BIG problem is that a game with a voiced PC is necessarily going to be shorter. The devs themselves said it back when DAO was still in production. And that's a lousy trade-off, at least for me.

BG, Torment and the old IE games did it best. Partial voice over for important scenes, longer games, more dialogue options.

Modifié par Pedrak, 13 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

"Stay away from y sister!" *ANGRY RED FIST*  and the result "I'm with Bethany".

What game were you playing? In my game Hawke almost growled (Love Lady Hawke's snarl there) "As long as you know that I stand with Bethany, Templar!". 

[17thknight]

Pedrak wrote...

My problem with a voiced PC is not the "immersion" thing - I mean, unless the voice acting is downright atrocious. And yeah, cutscenes with a voiced PC are kind of cool.

The BIG problem is that a game with a voiced PC is necessarily going to be shorter. The devs themselves said it back when DAO was still in production. And that's a lousy trade-off, at least for me.

Definitely. Ohhh a voiced PC, and I get 1/4th the gameplay! What a steal!

[DanaScu]

From a different thread on this forum, someone found an interview with a Bioware person. Where they came up with complete reverse of the reasoning behind the wheel o'hints:
http://social.biowar...7811/37#7052053

I'm going to give you an interview with Zeschuk of Bioware (whoever that is) that multiplayerblog.mtv did.


"Multiplayer: If people's last point of reference for BioWare is "Mass Effect," they may recall the quality of the voice acting and the fact that you could even choose the gender of your character and have a separate voice track to listen to. Also, the conversation was triggered by mood and not knowing the line that the character would deliver. In "Dragon Age" it seemed that your lead character has no voice and you're literally selecting what line you say next rather than picking the emotion. So how should people interpret that you guys have undone some of the things you did in "Mass Effect," and why is there a difference?

Zeschuk: So the way the voice and the voice of the protagonist works: Our belief, and the reason we make a wide variety of games at BioWare (we actually have a quite a few in development), they come in different flavors. "Mass Effect" is incredibly cinematic and flowed a certain way based on the protagonist's voice and the way we did the dialogue system. When we looked at "Dragon Age" we sat back and thought we wanted the player to reflect their own inner voice. This was a very conscious decision. It actually harkens back to our roots and it's actually what we've done in all our games up until "Mass Effect." And things like "KOTOR" have been pretty well-loved by the fans. [smiles] There's a lot of choices in this game about how you portray yourself and how you experience it. We wanted players to have an additional sense of -- even though I'm picking a line -- I'm the one saying it in my head" [/quote]

In my opinion, too bad they changed their minds for the DA world.

[17thknight]

Persephone wrote...

What game were you playing? In my game Hawke almost growled (Love Lady Hawke's snarl there) "As long as you know that I stand with Bethany, Templar!". 

Which is exactly like the big angry red fist and "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" Right?

Hell, why didn't he say "Stay away from my sister!" Or something equivalent?

Instead "Hurrr I'm with Bethany." "Oh, okay, who the **** are you?" "The dude with Bethany." "...kay."

It's garbage. Absolute garbage. The dialogue and actions have NOTHING to do with the choice you picked. Nothing.

[17thknight]

[quote]DanaScu wrote...

Zeschuk: So the way the voice and the voice of the protagonist works: Our belief, and the reason we make a wide variety of games at BioWare (we actually have a quite a few in development), they come in different flavors. "Mass Effect" is incredibly cinematic and flowed a certain way based on the protagonist's voice and the way we did the dialogue system. When we looked at "Dragon Age" we sat back and thought we wanted the player to reflect their own inner voice. This was a very conscious decision. It actually harkens back to our roots and it's actually what we've done in all our games up until "Mass Effect." And things like "KOTOR" have been pretty well-loved by the fans. [smiles] There's a lot of choices in this game about how you portray yourself and how you experience it. We wanted players to have an additional sense of -- even though I'm picking a line -- I'm the one saying it in my head" [/quote]

In my opinion, too bad they changed their minds for the DA world.[/quote]

Really sad reading this and realizing that Mike "Button Awesome" Laidlaw decided he hates RPG's and immersion and wants nothing to do with either.

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

What game were you playing? In my game Hawke almost growled (Love Lady Hawke's snarl there) "As long as you know that I stand with Bethany, Templar!". 

Which is exactly like the big angry red fist and "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" Right?

Hell, why didn't he say "Stay away from my sister!" Or something equivalent?

Instead "Hurrr I'm with Bethany." "Oh, okay, who the **** are you?" "The dude with Bethany." "...kay."

It's garbage. Absolute garbage. The dialogue and actions have NOTHING to do with the choice you picked. Nothing.

Must anger always be loud and involve "This is Spartaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!" rage? The underlying threat is actually way more potent. To me, anyway.

[Irasan]

Voiced over main character that didnt really say what i wanted to say only made me feel more distanced to him. I understand that it on paper looks really cool to make a game where everyone always have a voice and you dont have to read conversations but in reality it takes away the players imagination that it is him/her that says it. In a RPG imagination play a huge part even in a computer game.

No more voiced main toons! (well... if Bioware just gona start make hack n slash RPGs a Diablo style.. go right ahead)

Modifié par Irasan, 13 avril 2011 - 05:28 .

[17thknight]

Persephone wrote...

Must anger always be loud and involve "This is Spartaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!" rage? The underlying threat is actually way more potent. To me, anyway.

Oh right, so the big red fist and "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" didn't indicate rage, it indicated a bored "I'm with Bethany".

Hell, why not just say "Stay away from my sister!" in a threatening tone? That IS the option I picked, so why doesn't Hawke say it? Instead she says "I'm with Bethany *yawn*". Oh how compelling.

What is so hard about saying what the option is? Or making the option reflect the actual dialogue? Why is that so damn hard? 

The dialogue wheel si garbage and your fanboi defense of it isn't helping your argument in the least.

Modifié par 17thknight, 13 avril 2011 - 05:31 .

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Must anger always be loud and involve "This is Spartaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!" rage? The underlying threat is actually way more potent. To me, anyway.

Oh right, so the big red fist and "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" didn't indicate rage, it indicated a bored "I'm with Bethany".

Hell, why not just say "Stay away from my sister!" in a threatening tone? That IS the option I picked, so why doesn't Hawke say it? Instead she says "I'm with Bethany *yawn*". Oh how compelling.

What is so hard about saying what the option is? Or making the option reflect the actual dialogue? Why is that so damn hard? 

The dialogue wheel si garbage and your fanboi defense of it isn't helping your argument in the least.

Wow. Falsifying (Misquoting) dialogue, hyperbole and rudeness all in one post. Just awe inspiring.

And it's fanGIRL, dear hater. I may call you hater, given how you throw the "fanboi" label at me, right?

[17thknight]

Persephone wrote...


Wow. Falsifying (Misquoting) dialogue, hyperbole and rudeness all in one post. Just awe inspiring.

And it's fanGIRL, dear hater. I may call you hater, given how you throw the "fanboi" label at me, right?

Except that IS the dialogue. You pick "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" with a big angry fist.
You get the very bored "I'm with Bethany".

How do those two possibly mesh? Why not just say "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" in an angry tone, as indicated by the giant red fist?

Give me one logical reason why those two should not be congruent.

[mordarwarlock]

Oh right, so the big red fist and "STAY AWAY FROM MY SISTER!" didn't indicate rage, it indicated a bored "I'm with Bethany".

Hell, why not just say "Stay away from my sister!" in a threatening tone? That IS the option I picked, so why doesn't Hawke say it? Instead she says "I'm with Bethany *yawn*". Oh how compelling.

What is so hard about saying what the option is? Or making the option reflect the actual dialogue? Why is that so damn hard?

The dialogue wheel si garbage and your fanboi defense of it isn't helping your argument in the least.

damn spot on, the dialogue wheel is horrible on a RPing aspect

like for example, in the first conversation with flemeht, there's an option in the dialogue wheel, I don't remember exactly it said something like "ok", then Hawke says something as short as "spot on"

I mean seriously?, why put the option in the dialogue wheel if the response is as short if not shorter?, why couldn't they make hawke say what the damn option said in the tone I choose it to be?

I might have worked in Mass Effect because of how the game was portrayed from the get go, and heck, the choices in the dialogue wheel got better with the inclusion of the Vanguard/paragon Action sequences in ME 2, and I hope they only get fixed more in ME 3

in DA 2 it didn't work because of how poorly written the whole game is, both plot wise, and character development-wise