25 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Durak]

Hello.  First things first.  I'm completely new to the DnD universe.  I've played other RPGs, MMOs, ect, but DnD is a new animal for me, despite it being the foundation most of the other games I've played have been derived.  So long story short me, my wife, and 2 friends wish to band together and play through the OC-SoZ.  I'm hoping you guys can help me and my wife figure out what classes might suit us best given the information I provide below.  Any help and direction (and links to builds =D ) would be most appreciated.

One friend, with extensive DnD knowledge (though he plays 4.0 rules and only understands melee) is playing our group rogue/assassin.  I believe he intends on going the Arcane Trickster route.  His girlfriend will be our magic caster, though not sure what she plans on playing exactly...we just intend on her doing lots of magic damage while being able to identify loot for us.  Given those roles, my wife and I were going to play healer and tank.

Now, I've done a lot of reading of builds and trying to understand what would work best.  It seems that NWN2 (and possibly DnD as a whole?) isn't designed to support "pure healers", as in, someone who literally just buffs and heals.  Which is pretty cool, except my wife has never played a damaging role before, so this will be good for her.  So I've narrowed it down between Cleric and Favored Soul, and figured FS offered a bit more flexibility, at least for someone so new to the game.  I would love to get feedback (and possibly a link to a build with direction) on what you guys think would be best for someone who will be playing only in a multiplayer setting who's personally strength in games is healing.

As for me, I was looking to rock a Shield Dwarf Fighter/DD and attempt a pure tank build.  I've played through only about 2 or 3 hours of the OC with this, and while it's entirely possible I'm missing something, I don't see any clear cut means of maintaining mob attention (threat/hate/aggro/ect), so I'm beginning to think that, much like a pure healer being unnecessary, so too would be a pure tank.  So now I'm wondering if I'm better off rolling some form of a beefy melee damage dealer.  Please, any help would be greatly appreciated.

I know these posts probably get tiresome, and I apologize for contributing to that, but I've read probably 250 different guides over the last 3 or 4 days, and they're largely geared towards solo play.  With my party, I have a rogue for traps/locks/ect, a wizard/caster for identifying and nuking, my fighter/tank/beefy/whatever he ends up will be armor/weapon crafter, and my wife's healer/support will be our bluffer/charisma/dialogue character. I hope this information helps you help me.  =)  Thanks so much and I look forward to anything you folks have to say.  Take care.

[Arkalezth]

First, welcome to the forums. You should take a look at this thread if you haven't done so: http://social.biowar...2/index/5688433

NWN2 doesn't have an aggro system like Dragon Age, where you can use Taunt to attract enemies to you (note that there's a Taunt skill, but it works differently). A good NWN2 tank should have both good attack and defense. As a Dwarven Defender, go with a high Strength and Constitution, and take feats like Weapon Focus/Specialization/etc.

Healer: Yes, you can both heal and fight, and also cast offensive spells. Both Cleric and FS are good options, as is Druid. If she's new to the game and wants to learn how spells works, Druid or Cleric are probably best, because they have access to every spell on their books (FS and Spirit Shaman can only learn some of them). They are technically better offensive casters, if she wants to play that way, though other classes can work too.

Same for Wizard and Sorcerer, both are good, but Wizard is maybe more newbie-friendly. Arcane Trickster is also a casting class, it's not the best option for a sneaker/Assassin, unless you use Bard as the base class. That's a more advanced build, however. On the other hand, one could go with a Rogue/Wizard/AT, and the other with a Sorcerer. You'd learn from both classes then.

I won't go into detail for now, I hope this helps, ask if you have more questions.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 12 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[The_Durak]

Thanks for the reply, Arkalezth. Just talked to my sneaky friend about the AT, and he told me he's abandoned the AT route and is going for pure rouge/sneakiness. His girlfriend is going to stick to wizard per your suggestion.

So for tanking, I guess I'm just unsure of how to really tank in NWN2. I assume it would be best for me to run in first and smack things, but then what? It just seems to me that if I'm unable to make mobs look at me, there's little sense in wielding a shield when I could go 2-hander and try to go more beefy DPS rather than lower damage/higher armor. I'd love some insight on that if possible. Also, would you recommend Shield Dwarf and a 20(f)/10(DD) build or something else for tanking?

As for my wife and healing, the reason I was looking more into FS was because of her play-style. She's already made it clear to me she doesn't care about knowing every spell, she's concerned with being able to use the right spell. And from what I've read, that's a big plus of the FS. You know less spells overall, but you get more in combat flexibility in spell usage. I figure, and I could be wrong, that she's only going to be using so many spells anyways. For example, if she's going to melee, there's a buff for that, she's going to group buff pre-combat (and maybe mid combat if we get dispelled), and from there, she can choose between group heals, heal over time sort of spells (which I haven't seen in game yet, just read about), or larger (or smaller) direct heals. I know the cleric has the same abilities, but it just seems less flexible given that the cleric has to choose in advance how many of each spell she wants to cast. I see benefits to both sides, I just wonder if my wife, being new, would be better off with the (apparent) more flexible FS, considering her lack of knowledge of the game and universe. I've mentioned Druid and Spirit Shaman to her, and she's more interested in Cleric or Favored Soul, though I think that's just because of her associating with druid/shaman in other games (such as WoW...lol).

Thanks a bunch for the help. I really do appreciate it. I was telling my rogue friend yesterday while we were toying around with different builds on the character builder site "So yeah, I can't wait until we actually play the game..." since all we've done for the past 5 days is read, plan, read, read some more... Just ready to get into the game, haha. Thanks and take care.

[Arkalezth]

There isn't a magic button to attract enemies here.

Basically, you run first into the fray with your dwarf, and that should attract the attention of most enemies. The healer should be able to help you a bit with that.

At some point, the rogue (if it's a sneaker, as you said) should take Hide in Plain Sight from Shadowdancer or Assassin, to use stealth in battle. That would get enemies off him, while allowing backstabs too.

The mage should be some steps behind. With the right spells mages can be hard to kill, so if an enemie attacks her some time, she shouldn't have too many survival problems. If she's unbuffed and gets attacked, run away while the others attack that enemie.

Also, as a rule, have every party member attack the same enemy each time, it usually makes fights easier.

For the builds, yes, a Fighter/DwD is good. Once you have 12 Fighter levels, you can start taking Divine Champion instead. Same number of feats, but bonus to saves. Just note that some Fighter feats aren't in the DC feat list, for some reason.

I also prefer spontaneous casters (Sorcerers, Favored Souls...) most of the time, I suggested Cleric just in case your wife wanted to try more spells. But yeah, just pick healing spells and buffs for the party, and she should be ok. As a FS, go with good STR and CHA. WIS if she wants offensive spells, but some enemies will resist them.

As I said, the Rogue should take either Assassin or SD, and maybe some Fighter or Ranger levels to get a better attack bonus.

I think that's all. The OC isn't hard, so you shouldn't have much problems. Happy gaming, and come back if you have more questions.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 12 avril 2011 - 08:13 .

[The_Durak]

Arkalezth, thank you so much! I've emailed a link of this thread to the rest of my group and I'm sure they'll learn as much as I did. Really appreciate it!

If you (or anyone else checking in on this thread) have any guides or builds I could read over for the favored soul, I'd be very interested in checking it out for my wife. Thanks again and take care.

[Arkalezth]

I don't have a link to a specific build, but if you want to multiclass, it mixes well with Paladin or Blackguard (CHA bonus to saves, heavy armor, access to Divine Might/Shield...), Stormlord (if you have MotB)...

For feats, Extend and Persistent spell, Practiced Spellcaster (only if you multiclass), and melee feats.

Skills: Concentration, Spellcraft, and anything else. Heal would fit the role, but it depends on how much healing kits you use.

[The_Durak]

Thanks again! Also, is Armorsmith/Weapon Smith worth while for my tank? Can I craft decent armor/weapons? Just curious. Thanks again!

[Arkalezth]

Yes, they're useful on one character if you want to craft, as are the feats Craft Woundrous Items and Enchant Weapons and Armor.

There's a crafting guide here: http://thieves-guild.net/

[Will Scarlet]

If you have someone taking Wizard, my advice is to let them be your crafter. With the first 5 levels of Wizard, you can have both Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Items. Also, since Wizard is an Intelligence-based character, that bonus will apply to all Craft skills as well as add extra skill points to add to those skills. And, YES!, crafting is very worthwhile.

[Arkalezth]

Another thing for the healer: Since healing is her main purpose, 1 Cleric level would be worthwhile. If you take Healing domain, some of the healing spells will be more powerful. I recently discovered that this is applied to healing spells from other classes, such as FS.

Cleric also grants another free feat, heavy armor and access to divine feats. So if she wants to keep it simple, she could make it a Cleric (with Healing domain) 1/FS X.

[Haplose]

It's not such a bad idea. You do get Heavy Armor, as well as a second Domain to pick a usefull power from. But it does delay spellcasting progression (and therefore also access to superior healing spells, like Heal, Mass Heal, Greater Restoration - which are never affected by the Healing Domain powers).
Actually I hardly ever use the healing spells prior to Heal. Healing kits tend to work just as well or better, particularly with a good Healing skill. Well with a Favoured Soul I sometimes use (Lesser) Mass Vigor for out-of-combat party-wide health regeneration.

Modifié par Haplose, 13 avril 2011 - 06:40 .

[Arkalezth]

Yes, the delayed progression hurts a bit, though it's only one level (well, apart from the delayed progression of FS in respect to Cleric), and I find Empower Healing useful in modules. I guess it depends on your level, since you can reach high levels in the OC, it's maybe not that useful there, but if you're going to multiclass for heavy armor, you may as well get that.

It should be good for Bards too, if you don't have a dedicated healer around.

[The_Durak]

Hey! Sorry, my wife's had me cleaning the house the last day or so. Thanks for all the responses, you guys are giving me excellent direction and I really appreciate it.

@Will Scarlet- We do have a Wizard. So, even if she isn't putting skill points in Craft Armor/Weapon, would we still be better off having her craft Armor and Weapons, even for me (tank) and the rogue? I haven't had a lot of time to check out the link Arkalezth gave me, in fact, I'm going to that after hitting "submit", and they may clear quite a bit up for me. Thanks!

[Arkalezth]

Good, houses must be clean.

Only casters can craft and enchant magic items, but you can take the crafting skills with anyone, they're different processes. For example, the Fighter can craft an adamantine sword, and the Wizard can add fire damage to it.

[Shaughn78]

Just going to throw my two cents in here.

The official games are designed for players like you, who are not intimately familiar with the dnd rules. The three games are very forgiving and will allow you try different classes, skills and feats while you learn the system. If you over analyze the game and create the perfect party and perfect characters you can easily surpass the challenge rating of the game and have a cake walk. Part of the fun with this game (at least for me) is creating an interesting character that will interact with the NWN2 world. A flawed character can be just as fun to play as the perfect character and will offer a bit more challenge in game play.

As for the FS vs Cleric, I would suggest cleric.

A cleric will allow a player who is unfamiliar with the spells to try them all out and find which ones will work for the group. With a favor souled you lock yourself in with your spell book as you levelup. As a cleric if you choose a spell that isn't overly beneficial for your/party play style you can change it and rest, a FS you will be stuck with that spell. There are also many lower level spells that may benefit a lower level party but won't necessarily be as beneficial later on in the game. An example would be the level 1 spell Endure Element that gives you 10/ resistance to elemental damage, at spell level 2 (level 3) you gain the spell Resist Energy which give you 20/ resistance to elemental damage. As a favored soul do you necessarily need both in your spell book, taking up limited spell slots? A cleric can memorize one spell for the first several levels and when it doesn't offer the protection or benefits needed it can be changed with another spell. It is my opinion that the cleric is a bit more forgiving when it comes to selecting spells than the favored soul.

The FS does gain some deity weapon benefits and resistance that the cleric will miss out on, the cleric has several abilities that may be be just as equally beneficial if not better. Domains are huge, they will give you bonus feats, abilities and arcane (wizard) spells as well as gaining higher level cleric spells at lower levels. Turn undead is another great ability that the cleric will offer a party. Nothing like wiping out a horde of undead in a single round to earn the respect of your companions.

So there it is. Cleric over favored soul for a new player, as well as explore the game and try things that seem interesting.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 14 avril 2011 - 01:47 .

[Will Scarlet]

I, personally, like to take a fighter level with my wizards to use a mithral heavy shield (which has 0% Arcane Failure). With that combo, you could easily have the wizard as both your artillery caster and your skill-crafter as well as enchant what they make. Regardless of who puts points in crafting skill, I think it is necessary to have someone who can craft standard items and someone who can enchant them. In this instance a Fighter / Wizard / Eldritch Knight has a little weight to it by only sacrificing 2 caster levels (1 for Fighter, 1 for Level 1 of Eldritch Knight). Even with this kind of build, you can take Craft Wonderous Item and Craft Magic Arms & Armor both at 6th level.
On one other minor point, the crafting system for the OC/MotB is different than the crafting system for SoZ.

[Will Scarlet]

As for the Divine Caster: I am all for the Cleric. A cleric with the War domain gives a weapon focus and usage of the weapon group (if it is a Martial or Exotic weapon), which the Favored Soul also gets (but has to wait until 3rd level for the Weapon Focus). Combination of the Healing domain and Augment Healing feat creates an excellent healer. I also love the Luck domain for the free Luck of Heroes feat (which can normally only be taken at 1st level). And, as stated, Turn Undead is really nice to eliminate groups of undead.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

You should also be aware that while MotB is a continuation of the story of the OC, SoZ is a separate storyline entirely and is not played with the same characters. So with SoZ you will start off with low level characters again.

Regards

[Arkalezth]

Will Scarlet wrote...

And, as stated, Turn Undead is really nice to eliminate groups of undead.

Well, it should, but it rarely works.

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

Will Scarlet wrote...

And, as stated, Turn Undead is really nice to eliminate groups of undead.

Well, it should, but it rarely works.

PowerTurn!

oops, that opens a whole can o' wurms, don't it -

not least of which, how to use mods on a LAN game?

[Will Scarlet]

For the divine caster: Even though this is a very young group of adventurers, would it be bad to suggest an Aasimar race for the cleric (to get higher wisdom and charisma [for turn undead])?

BTW, Bards can make good support healers too. (even though they are arcane)

Modifié par Will Scarlet, 14 avril 2011 - 08:53 .

[Will Scarlet]

 I've noticed through my runs in the OC and SoZ that most everyone in the group needs to be able to fight or do damage in some way.  If you was to build the party, here's one of my suggestions:

Rogue (Rogue 1 / Ranger +) - Able Learner feat makes almost all skills class skills.  Character can either specialize dual-wield or archery.  Roles: Trapfinder, Lockpicker, Support warrior

Priest (Paladin 1 / Cleric 5 / Doomguide +) - Domains of Sun, Healing and Augment Healing feat. Roles: Healer, Turning specialist, Support warrior

Wizard (Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight +) - Only loses 2 levels of caster level. Roles: Blaster, Crafter, Enchanter, Support warrior

Warrior (Fighter / Dwarven Defender / Divine Champion) - Several feats, Damage Reduction, great HP. Role: Primary Warrior

[Arkalezth]

Will Scarlet wrote...

Priest (Paladin 1 / Cleric 5 / Doomguide +) - Domains of Sun, Healing and Augment Healing feat. Roles: Healer, Turning specialist, Support warrior

Not that Doomguide or Turn Undead are powerful, but why Paladin 1? Divine Grace is gained at 2, and immunity to disease and fear at 3.

For the divine caster: Even though this is a very young group of
adventurers, would it be bad to suggest an Aasimar race for the cleric
(to get higher wisdom and charisma [for turn undead])?

Depending on the classes, Aasimar may mean an XP penalty.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 14 avril 2011 - 09:26 .

[Will Scarlet]

Perhaps an Aasimar Paladin 3 / Cleric 5 / Doomguide ?

[Arkalezth]

@The_Durak:

Maybe you have started to play already, but a note about the Rogue: there are lots of crit immune enemies in the OC, so don't leave his STR low. 1 or more Ranger levels and Improved Favored Enemy: Undead is also advisable. Wood Elf is probably best for this character, but it can work with other races too.