29 réponses à ce sujet

[StableZaner]

So I'm just wondering what people overall thought about the death or possible deaths of Hawkes family over the course of the game. Why in your opinion did Bioware opt to go down this path? Do you feel it was a good or bad inclusion in the storyline.
I'm persoanlly not saying it was a bad decision, for one it made for powerful scenes. But Hawke managed to carry on, help people around the city, thrust herself into the fray when Kirkwall as a whole came under threat and still manage to put her friends needs into the equation.

Did Bioware intend to portray Hawke as a true hero, battling on despite the constant close trauma she suffered?

I think it would of been interesting if those deaths had of effected Hawke a little more, maybe on a psychologcial way. Maybe have a scene where Hawke breaks down. It's one thing to lose family all at once, but Hawkes family got hacked at piece by piece throughout the course of the game. She probably thought her mother was at least safe on the estate, but it seems she was just as at risk as she was living in a dingy dive in the slums of Lowtown.

People complained about DA2 being a game that lacked the feel of epicness, but I find it to be quite the opposite. This was a different game, that still bore epic events and traits, just they resolved around one city and a small cluster of characters. To me that intensifies the 'epicness' and it makes for a game that stands out a little, just not in the "world is doomed scale".
Hawkes family matters and ultimately periodical demise of them was part of this I think. Would be so easy to have several family members living in a house and you just spoke to them and they never moved, but here we had the family also weaving into the intricate events that happened around Kirkwall.

Bioware made a sequel that connected to the first, improved in some ways and still retained it's amazing player interaction/dialogue/story wonders. It made a game where you were key in the evolution and struggles that befell a great city....and in the end it seemed that the events that happened there, the events you took part in had a butterfly effect...so in the end you did get your worldy big finale, the war had broke out all over the lands of the DA world.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

I wouldn't want to have a scene where my character is forced to break down. If it were done, I'd have preferred it to remain optional.

[Louis deGuerre]

I think the original concept was good and worked out well up to a point.
Sadly two main things went wrong :
1. The overall plot goes bananas at the end.
2. Your character has too little impact on how the story unfolds.

[StableZaner]

Louis deGuerre wrote...


2. Your character has too little impact on how the story unfolds.

Do you believe that the events that occur overall would of been drastically different or possibly non-existent without Hawke being in Kirkwall?

[Kilshrek]

StableZaner wrote...

Louis deGuerre wrote...


2. Your character has too little impact on how the story unfolds.

Do you believe that the events that occur overall would of been drastically different or possibly non-existent without Hawke being in Kirkwall?

I think what he meant is that whatever Hawke does or chooses, the outcome remains unchanged.

[efrgfhnm_]

I think I have already posted this on about 5 much larger topics discussing the same thing, but oh well. I think that the death of the mother should have hapenned, and not only because I hated her, but also because she just seemed like dead weight for a champion. In the same way, I am glad they got the siblings out of the way one way or the other, while maybe there should have been one more companion quest, even if it was just talking with them, it was still necesary

[JabbaDaHutt30]

^ No way I loved the family aspect. Carver was great to have around. I understand their decision to make for a more dramatic story, but it seem that they almost simultaneously got rid of characters they didn't want to use anymore.

[StableZaner]

Kilshrek wrote...


I think what he meant is that whatever Hawke does or chooses, the outcome remains unchanged.

That does seem to be true. Hawke helps the mages they still dismiss her and duke it out. Hawke helps the Templars...ect ect.

Does anyone believe that had Anders not of gone bat-poop mad and blew up the Chantry, maybe things would not have escalated as far as they did in the end?

I personally enjoyed the family aspect of the game, I'm not sure if it's a new concept, but to have a LIVING fmaily for the most part, be integral to your character is a style I've not encountered yet. Usually the hero of a game is trying to get revenge for the death of their family ect.
I do wish that we'd of had more time with the siblings. I feel like I didn't know Carver at all, compared to Behtany and even then I wish she was around more. Maybe she could of left the Circle/he leave the Grey Wardens on a sabbatical in Act 2 and stayed with you for a while.

[efrgfhnm_]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

^ No way I loved the family aspect. Carver was great to have around. I understand their decision to make for a more dramatic story, but it seem that they almost simultaneously got rid of characters they didn't want to use anymore.

The family did add to the story, and there should have been more related content to them, but they would have eventually become dead weight, and the decision to get rid of them while most people would still like them was the right one in my opinion.
Apart from Hawke's Mum, she should have died in Lothering grrrrrr

[Louis deGuerre]

Kilshrek wrote...

I think what he meant is that whatever Hawke does or chooses, the outcome remains unchanged.

Exactly. And not just the final outcome, which would be understandable, but for any semi-important decision point in the game your decisions usually don't affect the outcome.
Eventually I felt that Anders had had more impact on Kirkwall than Hawke ever did  

[Darkhour]

StableZaner wrote...

I personally enjoyed the family aspect of the game, I'm not sure if it's a new concept, but to have a LIVING fmaily for the most part, be integral to your character is a style I've not encountered yet. Usually the hero of a game is trying to get revenge for the death of their family ect.
I do wish that we'd of had more time with the siblings. I feel like I didn't know Carver at all, compared to Behtany and even then I wish she was around more. Maybe she could of left the Circle/he leave the Grey Wardens on a sabbatical in Act 2 and stayed with you for a while.

What was so integral about the family? They were just a gimmick that Bioware didn't feel like bothering with after Act 1. Who never visits their sister in the tower? Evenn after your mother dies there is still no real sibling interaction which made it feel so fake and tacked on. And when they do encounter each other their is no emotional reunion or any sense that they miss each other.

Hawke: Hey, Sis.
Bethany: Sup.
Hawke: ...
Bethany: ...
Hawke: Bye.
Bethany: Laters, Bro.

That pretty much sums up all the rare conversations between Hawke and Bethany after Act 1 (assuming she did not go to the deep roads). I feel it was just a gimmick to excuse not including multiple player races. If you're not going to do something right, don't do it. Family = Very disappointing. Even the romances don't feel like intimate relationships, but that's a different story.

Modifié par Darkhour, 12 avril 2011 - 12:27 .

[Kilshrek]

Darkhour wrote...

What was so integral about the family? They were just a gimmick that Bioware didn't feel like bothering with after Act 1. Who never visits their sister in the tower? Evenn after your mother dies there is still no real sibling interaction which made it feel so fake and tacked on. And when they do encounter each other their is no emotional reunion or any sense that they miss each other.

Hawke: Hey, Sis.
Bethany: Sup.
Hawke: ...
Bethany: ...
Hawke: Bye.
Bethany: Laters, Bro.

That pretty much sums up all the rare conversations between Hawke and Bethany after Act 1 (assuming she did not go to the deep roads). I feel it was just a gimmick to excuse not including multiple player races. If you're not going to do something right, don't do it. Family = Very disappointing. Even the romances don't feel like intimate relationships, but that's a different story.

I believe it comes down to the lack of interaction between Acts, and the fact that you can't interact with anyone after they've done their story bit. Even ME 2 would let you loop the same nonsense to death, like bromancing it with Jacob once you've settled his loyalty quest. I would have liked to see/hear a little more interaction between Hawke and individual companions, as it stood there was perhaps an equal amount of party banter and Hawke one-on-one. The banter is no bad thing, let's not get the wrong idea here, but having Hawke discuss more than just 'our sleeping arrangement' with Merrill, or hearing about Sandal creeping her out, would be swell.

[AlexXIV]

I think it was done the worst possible way.

Which kinda answered the question why people assume if Bioware is doing something it is going to be the worst possible way. Even though one has to admit that before DA2 there was no reason to think that.

[Sabriana]

I fully expected this to happen, that's why I didn't bother with the family too much. They could've used the family as a way to flesh out Hawke, make her alive, give her background, but they opted for the cheapest possible "moar dramah" option instead. Killing off NPC's seems to become Bioware's stock-in-trade, so I always expect an apparently important emotional NPC to croak sooner or (not much) later.

I saw that coming a mile away, because from the beginning on I expected them to either die in a single stroke, or die in orderly fashion. I was actually shocked to see Bethany still alive after Hawke returned from the Deep Roads. But she was gone nevertheless, so nothing was lost. Hawke didn't have to get to know her after all. It seems that everybody and her sister were able to visit the sibling, but not Hawke. I expected that as well, so I never gave it a second thought.

[Girl on a Rock]

The Hawke family was a potent cluster of plot/character devices that would have been more effective as such had it not been so obvious that that was what they were. Dig?

I agree with what one poster said in that Bethany or Carver (whoever's alive after the prologue) would have been way more effective as a character had Hawke been able to interact with either of them after Act I. The fact that when their mother dies, there's no option for Hawke to head down to the Gallows and tell Carver herself, or have some kind of interaction, is pretty frustrating, especially when the next time he sees you, he's a complete dick (and really, taking it from his standpoint, he's well within his rights - you send Gamlen to go tell him your mom is dead, and don't even try to visit? Yeah, you're an awesome sibling, Hawke).

I understand that the touchy-feely relationship stuff shouldn't be the focus of the game, but given the gross neglect of putting together a cohesive plot arc, creating original locations so that it didn't feel like I was just playing the same level over and over again in Donkey Kong or something, and fighting the same five monsters again and again, the least they could have done was let me feel more invested in the relationships, which were the best part of the game, IMO.

[Nashiktal]

How do I feel about all the family deaths? Disappointed in Bioware. I had thought they were going to try something different, have your family matter in the game. Nope, they just delayed it. First you lose a sibling in the prologue.... Then you lose another at the end of Act 1 (sorta), then you lose your own mother somewhere in act 2.

Why did they even bother to keep them alive? They followed the same damn trope that has plagued videogames since the earliest JRPG's. I can't help but shake my head at it... Especially since they barely even touch upon it after the deaths. You get a conversation or two about the lost sibling, (Barring the first loss)

Even further it also means that the silly excuse they made about choosing your sibling is false. Filling in a class gap? They certainly don't fill anything for the two whole acts they are gone!!!!

[StableZaner]

I didn't think I'd like Carver, but just as I started too...I'd done everything I could prior to going to the Deep Roads and I knew (from a playthrough with Behtany) that soon he'd leave me
He was a really good companion to have to in combat.

I admit I kept thinking on my 1st playthrough "when are we going to actually go to Behtany/Carver" even to bust them out...or at least visit them.

[Nashiktal]

I was always confused as to why you couldn't visit them. Ah, out of all the praise I give this game. The reusing of the dungeon, and how they handled your family really disappointed me.

[StableZaner]

And to think that the only person that was still there, in whatever capacity, all the way through...was your pervy uncle.

[Ealos]

I wish they hadn't made such a fuss about the family before release, seemed a bit silly when both siblings are effectively out of the way after Act I, and Mum's horribly mutilated and killed by Act III. Would have noticed it less if I hadn't been told that family was an incredibly important part of the game - you know, like that one they told about Hawke being the most important character in the DA universe. Family is there so that mage-hate can be generated by your mother's death.
(That said, I did like having a family and, contrary to other people's opinions, found that the different personalities of Beth and Carver were really interesting. Other than Mum's death, was handled well, but not as important as was lead to expect).

[HAM Hawke]

StableZaner wrote...

And to think that the only person that was still there, in whatever capacity, all the way through...was your pervy uncle.

I hope there is some DLC that let's you get in an argument with Gamlen and you have a choice to cone of cold his ba!!s off or  mistake him for a demon and hit him with a Holy Smite!

[RavenB]

Honestly, I didn't really like the family bit that much. I found my "mother" kind of annoying. I talked to her at one point after Anders moved in with me and she talked about finding me a wife. XD

I sort of felt like the relationship with them was a bit forced. I didn't want to be bothered with them as much as I was. Having a "break down" over them would be unfavorable to me, as I honestly cared even less than they implied I did. It wouldn't fit my character the way I saw them to break down over it.

But I imagine the mother was just dead weight they needed to get rid of by the end of the game. Your character disappears. They probably have more adventures "on the run" to do in DLC. Your mother wouldn't fit into that well.

[StableZaner]

To be fair, I liked that my mother was kinda of giddy about the fact that her daughter was boinking Isabella. She could be uptight one minute and then cool the next. I just wish there was much more family interaction overall. DLC could bridge that nicely.

[JesterPsychotica]

I was hoping for an epic Brother/Brother battle with Carver if your rivalry was high enough with him and he became a Templar. But nooo.

[Alamar2078]

I liked the family thing a lot as it told a very personal story ... I think the writers succeeded here.

Devil's Advocate: It griped me a lot that I couldn't visit my sister in-game. From what hints I get at the story hero-hawke never visted his sister in the Gallows or even tried to smuggle her out.