80 réponses à ce sujet

[Syrellaris]

Considering KalosCast, doesnt even know what he is talking about when it comes to alignments, i wont take him to seriously. Chaotic evil is referred to, even in pen and paper, as the destroyer or demonic like alignment. One were the player has no respect for rules, lives or anything else, but there own desires. Which are selfish and cruel. There also extremely sadistic, care for complete freedom for themselfs, but not that of others. There also very schemy and only behave them self in a group.



Im fully aware that this is not a free roam rpg, but saying that your character is dedicated to destroying the darkspawn isnt true. Several origins already give talk options to say you dont want to leave and that you dont care etc, but you get forced to go. That simply isnt dedication and could be a foundation for an evil ending.



There is also no reason why it could nto fit into the story, you can still let the story progress and give the player more evil options to choose from during the Blight story lines. For example with the mage tower, you could perhaps let the abomination turn irving and the rest and let them take over the tower, while they destroyed the templars. letting the malificar run wild and join you against the blight.



Options like that, influence the storyline but still let you follow the storyline in your way.

perhaps, becoming the archdemon itself is unrealistic, but having an ending completely evolved around yourself, and nothing to do with te rest of your party members, one were the world completely succumbs to your will is possible. All the building stones were there, but they only followed good and neutral, so yeah.

[Jacks-Up]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

The ultimate evil ending is there. Sleep with Morrigan.

Edit: On the topic of missing endings, though, I miss an ending where I can allow Loghain to redeem himself and still keep Alistair, preferably married with the Queen.

It feels like there's only three endings. One where I die, one where I sell out to Morrigan and sire a bastard son of evil, and one where Alistair dies. Dammit.

Thats not a very good Ultimate Evil ending.

TOB - Becoming the new lord of murder = Ultimate Evil ending.

Frozen Throne - merging with an all powerful Lich King = Ultimate Evil ending.

DAO - Sleeping with some hot chick = fun but really not so evil.

Modifié par Jacks-Up, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:05 .

[KalosCast]

Syrellaris wrote...

Considering KalosCast, doesnt even know what he is talking about when it comes to alignments, i wont take him to seriously. Chaotic evil is referred to, even in pen and paper, as the destroyer or demonic like alignment. One were the player has no respect for rules, lives or anything else, but there own desires. Which are selfish and cruel. There also extremely sadistic, care for complete freedom for themselfs, but not that of others. There also very schemy and only behave them self in a group.

Yes, and this would make sense for chaotic evil, but not even they are stupid enough to do an act that would assure their destruction simply because it's what their character sheet dictates. There are plenty of chances to do horrible things in the game (there's an entire thread dedicated to it) but not even a chaotic evil character would destroy the entire planet, including themselves, just so that they can be dark and edgy. Which is what you've been whining for in this entire thread. As for only behaving themselves in a group... you're in a group! for the entire game! Funny how that works out, isn't it?

You can set yourself up with your own land and power at the end of the game, if you combine that with "hardening" Alistair (or just having Anora take the throne), it's completely plausible for your estate to be a horrible place of brutal oppression and unfairness. It's entirely plausible that you use your place in the Grey Wardens to turn them into a group of people who take the "questionable" out of their questionably dark morality. However, since anything beyond a brief overview isn't explored after ending the blight... you can't really argue that there isn't an evil option any more than you can argue that it isn't good, there's simply not enough information presented.

If you can stand for a more "quietly evil" ending, you can sacrifice yourself, knowing that you've left this world a much worse place than when you came into it (assuming you made the "right" decisions throughout the rest of the game)

Modifié par KalosCast, 19 novembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[Jacks-Up]

KalosCast wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Considering KalosCast, doesnt even know what he is talking about when it comes to alignments, i wont take him to seriously. Chaotic evil is referred to, even in pen and paper, as the destroyer or demonic like alignment. One were the player has no respect for rules, lives or anything else, but there own desires. Which are selfish and cruel. There also extremely sadistic, care for complete freedom for themselfs, but not that of others. There also very schemy and only behave them self in a group.

Yes, and this would make sense for chaotic evil, but not even they are stupid enough to do an act that would assure their destruction simply because it's what their character sheet dictates. There are plenty of chances to do horrible things in the game (there's an entire thread dedicated to it) but not even a chaotic evil character would destroy the entire planet, including themselves, just so that they can be dark and edgy. Which is what you've been whining for in this entire thread. As for only behaving themselves in a group... you're in a group! for the entire game! Funny how that works out, isn't it?

You can set yourself up with your own land and power at the end of the game, if you combine that with "hardening" Alistair (or just having Anora take the throne), it's completely plausible for your estate to be a horrible place of brutal oppression and unfairness. It's entirely plausible that you use your place in the Grey Wardens to turn them into a group of people who take the "questionable" out of their questionably dark morality. However, since anything beyond a brief overview isn't explored after ending the blight... you can't really argue that there isn't an evil option any more than you can argue that it isn't good, there's simply not enough information presented.

If you can stand for a more "quietly evil" ending, you can sacrifice yourself, knowing that you've left this world a much worse place than when you came into it (assuming you made the "right" decisions throughout the rest of the game)

K thats not an evil ending pal.  The problem is it's pretty much the same wather you where evil or not.

IMO there should of been an option to end it similar like this



That's an evil ending that I would of been fine with and would of left things open.   I'm not saying it should of been exactly like that I'm just using it as an example.

The choices you made should of effected how you acted at the end to either take over the land as the hero, give it away to a good person or whatever, or totally F everyone over and leave it leaderless where bad thing will bound to happen.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Syrellaris wrote...

Considering KalosCast, doesnt even know what he is talking about when it comes to alignments, i wont take him to seriously. Chaotic evil is referred to, even in pen and paper, as the destroyer or demonic like alignment. One were the player has no respect for rules, lives or anything else, but there own desires. Which are selfish and cruel. There also extremely sadistic, care for complete freedom for themselfs, but not that of others. There also very schemy and only behave them self in a group.

Im fully aware that this is not a free roam rpg, but saying that your character is dedicated to destroying the darkspawn isnt true. Several origins already give talk options to say you dont want to leave and that you dont care etc, but you get forced to go. That simply isnt dedication and could be a foundation for an evil ending.

There is also no reason why it could nto fit into the story, you can still let the story progress and give the player more evil options to choose from during the Blight story lines. For example with the mage tower, you could perhaps let the abomination turn irving and the rest and let them take over the tower, while they destroyed the templars. letting the malificar run wild and join you against the blight.

Options like that, influence the storyline but still let you follow the storyline in your way.
perhaps, becoming the archdemon itself is unrealistic, but having an ending completely evolved around yourself, and nothing to do with te rest of your party members, one were the world completely succumbs to your will is possible. All the building stones were there, but they only followed good and neutral, so yeah.

Right, because it's totally possible to reason with the mindless abominations in the Tower (different from maleficar, mind you) that know nothing but selfishness and cruelty, AND somehow get them to join you against the Blight...oh wait.  They kinda want to kill you too.  And anything that moves.  Oops. :innocent:

Honestly, the game gives you options to roleplay a character who's initially indifferent to the Blight and just kind of an ass, but after Ostagar, any character but a patently insane one would realize the threat the darkspawn pose to his/her own well being.  The whole point of the game is that you're a Grey Warden out to stop the Blight.  Just like the whole point of Mass Effect is that you're a Spectre out to save the galaxy.  It was kind of all over the marketing.  This kind of narrative-driven RPG needs SOME structure or it'll go nowhere.  If you didn't want that...well..play a different game 

[Njorhg]

Blame voice acting - It's the reason why writing and extra story content is so expensive.

Still, under DA's paradigm replayability for story reasons is virtually nil, there's barely any extra content to see when 90% of everything only has one way to be resolved.

At least the combat's are fairly fun...

[Jacks-Up]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...



Right, because it's totally possible to reason with the mindless abominations in the Tower (different from maleficar, mind you) that know nothing but selfishness and cruelty, AND somehow get them to join you against the Blight...oh wait.  They kinda want to kill you too.  And anything that moves.  Oops. :innocent:

Honestly, the game gives you options to roleplay a character who's initially indifferent to the Blight and just kind of an ass, but after Ostagar, any character but a patently insane one would realize the threat the darkspawn pose to his/her own well being.  The whole point of the game is that you're a Grey Warden out to stop the Blight.  Just like the whole point of Mass Effect is that you're a Spectre out to save the galaxy.  It was kind of all over the marketing.  This kind of narrative-driven RPG needs SOME structure or it'll go nowhere.  If you didn't want that...well..play a different game 

There are other ways to end things even if the end goal would be the same.

[Jacks-Up]

Njorhg wrote...

Blame voice acting - It's the reason why writing and extra story content is so expensive.
Still, under DA's paradigm replayability for story reasons is virtually nil, there's barely any extra content to see when 90% of everything only has one way to be resolved.
At least the combat's are fairly fun...

Well it's not like we're not paying for it.

[Eliende]

jimmyw404 wrote...

Mage Dan wrote...

Fudzie wrote...

Here's the real question: what could possibly give your character the motivation to do such a thing?

Power.

The arch demon does not share power.
http://upload.wikime...ndalf600ppx.jpg

Is Gandalf the archdemon??? 

[KalosCast]

Eliende wrote...
Is Gandalf the archdemon??? 

Saruman, actually. Didn't you notice how closely the Darkspan resemble Urak-Hai?

[Jacks-Up]

KalosCast wrote...

Eliende wrote...
Is Gandalf the archdemon??? 

Saruman, actually. Didn't you notice how closely the Darkspan resemble Urak-Hai?

Yes

[StuartMarshall]

No one has considered a political evil ending that could be setup throughout the game?



The powers that be of Orlais try to tempt you to help them take over Ferelden via political sabotage (yourself as king or a puppet king like Alistair) with the promise that you can govern it as long as you become part of their empire.

[Jacks-Up]

StuartMarshall wrote...

No one has considered a political evil ending that could be setup throughout the game?

The powers that be of Orlais try to tempt you to help them take over Ferelden via political sabotage (yourself as king or a puppet king like Alistair) with the promise that you can govern it as long as you become part of their empire.

Also you could just walk up and impale who ever was made king at the end infront of everyone.

[Primordial Instinct]

They have left the options as they are because they are planing a 2nd edition. They have to control some aspects of it to do so....If they had every option available it would be too expensive to create said edition. So you funnel players into several aspects of the game to make the 2nd campaign workable before release of the first. Especially if you have plans you want to see come to fruition in the 2nd part.



"You can't please everyone all the time, tis better to please yourself and those you care about. Hell with the rest!"

[Walina]

Syrellaris wrote...

an awsome game, all the way true, but shamefully the real final decision is not there shame on you bioware.

Seriously, were is the decision to dump  your entire war party, betray every army you recruited and let ferelden swallowed by the blight? The decision to either side with the arch demon or become the archdemon itself?

Were is my ultimate evil ending? i kinda feel sad.

I won't go that far, but I wish I could've killed all the nobles at Landmeet
Let me be the ruler!!

[Medivan]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...
In my opinion, there should be an option of being tempted by the archdemon itself, several options should apply, one of them being that you can kill the archdemon and take its essance as you did witht he tainted blood. In doing so, you yourself become a new archdemon. (the argument of surviving it would be moot, as you have proven yourself to slay nearly all demons with ease and even carry the tainted blood in you that makes Darkspawn, if you would not survive being a archdemon, you would simply not have survived the blood drinking ritual at ostagar.

I believe, by the magical properties of the Joining, that all Grey Wardens are incapable of housing the Archdemon. If the power passes into them, they die whether one desires otherwise or not. The only apparent way to obtain the Archdemon power is to have a child born with it.

Except the problem is Morrigan doesn't have a Archdemon, she has a Old God.  That was made very clear if/when you talk to you about her ritual.  Yes the Child is born with the Taint, but when you ask if the child will be evil she goes out of her way to say Old God, and NOT Archdemon.  Since it was Morrigan's point the entire time to obtain the Soul of the Old God, don't you think she'd want to be able to control it in the slightest?  She can't do that do a Arch Demon.

[kormesios]

Syrellaris wrote...

GmanFresh wrote...

hmmm your the good guy no matter what. like shepard. sure you can be a hardass but your still saving the world.

Exactly and thats the whole problem. I am missing the option at the end to betray everyone and let the world succumb to the blight.

There is that option.  Let yourself be killed and don't reload.

Seriously, you get what you want.  World dies, companions betrayed.  You die too, but that's only logical, given what was presented about the archdemon.

Nothing in the game, at least that I've seen, suggests any living thing prospering under a blighted world makes sense.  This goes back to the original blight story, which corrupted the mages.

[Sinda6]

I think what some of you are forgetting is that the core of this game as released was actually just a campaign built with the toolset.  And there will be others in the future, both from Bioware and from users, with different outcomes.  If you read the promo on "Return to Ostagar" you know the story's not really over.  Someone's even done a short custom campaign where you encounter Morrigan after she disappears. 

(Dear Bioware: crank out those expansions.  I'm hooked.  Here's all my money.  I'll eat roots and berries instead!)

The intricacies of the scripting and dialog trees involved in the game as released are phenomenal - it represents years of planning and hard work.  Adding chaotic or lawful evil endings would have made production ten or twenty times more complicated.  And even then not everyone will be happy.

IMO, I think there's a valid point to be made about the lack of genuinely evil ending options.  But I don't think it detracts from the value of the overall game at all - it's still beautifully done no matter how narrow the alignment focus may be.

Thinking this through, I wonder whether all the different races would have been quite as ready to unite against the darkspawn if the messenger (you) was well known to be a heartless sociopath?  What kind of moral high ground would you have against the deviousness of Loghain if you were?  Would your party members still stand by you -  Leiliana, Alistair and Wynne would probably abandon you in a heartbeat.   

And if you undid the alliance, do you honestly believe the archedemon will feel indebted to you?  Really?  

[JfBorrego]

This thread reinforces my belief that DA is not a RPG but an "On the rails" game.



It's like going to the movie; they let you pick your snack, drink and where you're going to sit.



But the movie is already finished and in the can...

[kormesios]

JfBorrego wrote...

This thread reinforces my belief that DA is not a RPG but an "On the rails" game.

It's like going to the movie; they let you pick your snack, drink and where you're going to sit.

But the movie is already finished and in the can...

You have, as in other things, plenty of choice in the ending.  Indeed, all plausible options available to your character seem available.

What people are complaining about is not a lack of actual role playing, but the fact that they can't alter game reality and the nature of the archdemon to make themselves god-emperor of  the world.   Well, I guess munchkinism is a type of role playing, maybe that's your point.

[JfBorrego]

kormesios wrote...

JfBorrego wrote...

This thread reinforces my belief that DA is not a RPG but an "On the rails" game.

It's like going to the movie; they let you pick your snack, drink and where you're going to sit.

But the movie is already finished and in the can...

You have, as in other things, plenty of choice in the ending.  Indeed, all plausible options available to your character seem available.

What people are complaining about is not a lack of actual role playing, but the fact that they can't alter game reality and the nature of the archdemon to make themselves god-emperor of  the world.   Well, I guess munchkinism is a type of role playing, maybe that's your point.

So there are actually different endings possible, impacted by your actions throught the game?

[NationalWreck]

Syrellaris wrote...

an awsome game, all the way true, but shamefully the real final decision is not there shame on you bioware.

Seriously, were is the decision to dump  your entire war party, betray every army you recruited and let ferelden swallowed by the blight? The decision to either side with the arch demon or become the archdemon itself?

Were is my ultimate evil ending? i kinda feel sad.

Perhaps they are leaving this choice to a DLC or sequel. It would, after all, be a pretty universe-changing event, whereas killing one archdemon is not.

[kormesios]

JfBorrego wrote...
So there are actually different endings possible, impacted by your actions throught the game?

Have you played to the end?

There's a key (or several key, depending on your path) PC decision that drastically changes his fortunes, plus the standard slideshow of different outcomes for different areas and different NPCs.

So yes, different endings, unless you mean completely different last several hours of gameplay.  You stop the blight, just like in BG/BG2 you kill Sarevok/Irenicus

Modifié par kormesios, 22 novembre 2009 - 04:48 .

[JfBorrego]

kormesios wrote...

JfBorrego wrote...
So there are actually different endings possible, impacted by your actions throught the game?

Have you played to the end?

There's a key (or several key, depending on your path) PC decision that drastically changes his fortunes, plus the standard slideshow of different outcomes for different areas and different NPCs.

So yes, different endings, unless you mean completely different last several hours of gameplay.  You stop the blight, just like in BG/BG2 you kill Sarevok/Irenicus

No, that's why I'm asking.

If there's only one edning to the game then I'll focus on making the selections that Bioware appears to "want" you to pick.

If there's no apprecable differences in the outcome, I don;t see any value in not taking the path of least resistance to get there.

[The Capital Gaultier]

JfBorrego wrote...

No, that's why I'm asking.

If there's only one edning to the game then I'll focus on making the selections that Bioware appears to "want" you to pick.

If there's no apprecable differences in the outcome, I don;t see any value in not taking the path of least resistance to get there.

There are a number of appreciable differences between the endings.  All of them wind up with killing the Archdemon so far as I know.