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What is your absolute favourite companion moment? (Potential spoilers!)


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#76
Jannamarie

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Varric -- "Bartrand!  I'm coming for you!  You nug humping bast*rd!"  Best dream sequence ever.:lol:
Varric -- killing that nasty blood mage Du Crapness (that's how I think of him).  As stated by many, such a pal. 

Holding your mother as she the light goes out of her eyes.  Choked me up.

Marethari entering the Alienage and all the elves honoring her.  Choked me up.

Having Sebastian in the party when you tell Fenris you will kill the slavers (at the end of the ambush at the start of A bitter pill) and Sebastian shouts "Yes, this is what I signed up for!"  Sighes, I just love a paladin character.

Carver returning from the Warden's to help you.

Fenris trying to comfort you after your mother is dead.

#77
ulturas

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Varric - The jokes from Varric are what made me love DA2 and having Varric in my party all the time, he interacts with all the characters as well so discussion is almost always imminent.

Aveline - Too serious a character for me not a big fan of big red.

Isabela - Hate her, purely coz she made me do another playthrough just to get the supplier achievement when I wanted to pursue a different "romance" -_-.

Merrill - I've grown fond of this Dalish Elf she's quite timid and shy, and basically sheltered from the outside world of the Dales so doesn't know much but she's quite hilarious in some parts of the game.

Sebastian - I'm not a big fan of the whole "Religious" man type thing and him telling you to kill your friend or he wouldn't be yours is a pretty lame move imo. His party conversations are just really boring as well :/.

Fenris - I dislike his hatred towards Mages purely because 1 Mage treated him like crap it means ALL Mages are the same in his eyes. Other than that he's a really good fighter to have in the game at least for me he was.

Anders - I was a big fan of Anders in DAO:A but this time round it was good for a new voice over actor (one that wasn't Alistair for once). I didn't like where he destroyed the Chantry purely to incite war pretty much or the fact that he's somehow joined with Justice (who happened to be a really cool character in DAO:A). He really just had more comedy value in DAO:A in DA2 I think he makes like 1 or 2 jokes that are even remotely funny, way too serious in DA2.

Bethany - Idk why but before I found out Bethany was your sister I had hoped to romance her lmao kinda disappointed me to find out afterwards that that was obviously impossible. That said though she's a pretty cool character and kinda agrees with everything Hawke does.

Carver - I didn't like that Carver basically disagrees with you about everything, the voice acting wasn't too convincing for me either. So not particularly a fan of Carver.

#78
Guest_jollyorigins_*

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Carver, in the templars, siding with Hawke against Meredith. Felt awesome knowing he actually cares about you in the end and felt good having him slap Meredith around with me.

#79
FreyaWazHere

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Varric- I was in tears listening to his conversation with Isabella about the story Isabella wrote about Aveline and Donnic. Like crying sobbing tears.

Sebastian- His and Anders discussion about him having Andraste's face on his crotch. That and how startled he gets when Lady Hawke first flirts with him and he says he has to run off and pray, pray a lot.

Merril- Errrr kinda hated/never used her so no favorite moment.

Aveline- Hmmm I liked her but she was kinda blegh at the same time, I guess when I was face palming through the entire quest to set her up with Donnic and then was at the end I got to be HAHA GUESS WHAT IM TELLING HIM

Fenris- The conversation he has with Isabella over his tattoos and he mentions getting lyrium breasts tattooed on his chest. Either that or just all the little moments when he knitted his brows together and looked kinda like a kicked puppy instead of his usual scowl.

Anders- Those bastards made me get rid of my cat! Poor Ser Pounce-a-lot...

Carver- Hated him

Bethany- Next to never used her

Isabella- most of her dialog, particularly the conversation about being so drunk you've found someones stolen your trousers.

#80
DJRedLine

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ulturas wrote...

Bethany - Idk why but before I found out Bethany was your sister I had hoped to romance her lmao kinda disappointed me to find out afterwards that that was obviously impossible. That said though she's a pretty cool character and kinda agrees with everything Hawke does.


I agree
Best looking female character in the game, shame she's my sister Image IPB

#81
mindblanks2

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DJRedLine wrote...

ulturas wrote...

Bethany - Idk why but before I found out Bethany was your sister I had hoped to romance her lmao kinda disappointed me to find out afterwards that that was obviously impossible. That said though she's a pretty cool character and kinda agrees with everything Hawke does.


I agree
Best looking female character in the game, shame she's my sister Image IPB


It seems pretty much everyone (including me) thought that.  For me, it wasn't just that she was the best looking character, but also she was agreeable.  Even though I constantly exposed her to danger from Templars, and didn't always do what she wanted, her friendship remained high (not like that little sissy Carver).  Plus, it was really, really nice to have another character who could have a conversation without whining and bringing their personal agendas into it (after Isabella, Varric, and occasionally Merrill).

#82
highcastle

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mindblanks2 wrote...

DJRedLine wrote...

ulturas wrote...

Bethany - Idk why but before I found out Bethany was your sister I had hoped to romance her lmao kinda disappointed me to find out afterwards that that was obviously impossible. That said though she's a pretty cool character and kinda agrees with everything Hawke does.


I agree
Best looking female character in the game, shame she's my sister Image IPB


It seems pretty much everyone (including me) thought that.  For me, it wasn't just that she was the best looking character, but also she was agreeable.  Even though I constantly exposed her to danger from Templars, and didn't always do what she wanted, her friendship remained high (not like that little sissy Carver).  Plus, it was really, really nice to have another character who could have a conversation without whining and bringing their personal agendas into it (after Isabella, Varric, and occasionally Merrill).


I'll be honest and admit I've only played partially through the first act with anything but mage Hawke so I haven't seen Beth's development compared to Carver's. That being said, I have to be the only one who doesn't lik her as much as Carver. Yes she's agreeable, but almost too agreeable. Carver, for all that he's a rival and constantly hungry to prove himself, comes across as having the more realistic dynamic with Hawke.

His personality is also a bit stronger, and to me there's nothing more satisfying than having the relationship progress when he's in the Wardens. At first he's all resentful that you keep showing up to save him, then by the end he shows up to save you. And his conversation at the Gallows cements the fact that he's grown more confident and gotten over his jealousy. It's a heartwarming moment, and since Beth starts out at that level with you, I don't see where else there is for her to go.

#83
astreqwerty

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all of isabelas dialogue between her and aveline..and the moment she returned in act 2

#84
mindblanks2

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highcastle wrote...

mindblanks2 wrote...

DJRedLine wrote...

ulturas wrote...

Bethany - Idk why but before I found out Bethany was your sister I had hoped to romance her lmao kinda disappointed me to find out afterwards that that was obviously impossible. That said though she's a pretty cool character and kinda agrees with everything Hawke does.


I agree
Best looking female character in the game, shame she's my sister Image IPB


It seems pretty much everyone (including me) thought that.  For me, it wasn't just that she was the best looking character, but also she was agreeable.  Even though I constantly exposed her to danger from Templars, and didn't always do what she wanted, her friendship remained high (not like that little sissy Carver).  Plus, it was really, really nice to have another character who could have a conversation without whining and bringing their personal agendas into it (after Isabella, Varric, and occasionally Merrill).


I'll be honest and admit I've only played partially through the first act with anything but mage Hawke so I haven't seen Beth's development compared to Carver's. That being said, I have to be the only one who doesn't lik her as much as Carver. Yes she's agreeable, but almost too agreeable. Carver, for all that he's a rival and constantly hungry to prove himself, comes across as having the more realistic dynamic with Hawke.

His personality is also a bit stronger, and to me there's nothing more satisfying than having the relationship progress when he's in the Wardens. At first he's all resentful that you keep showing up to save him, then by the end he shows up to save you. And his conversation at the Gallows cements the fact that he's grown more confident and gotten over his jealousy. It's a heartwarming moment, and since Beth starts out at that level with you, I don't see where else there is for her to go.


You make a good point, Carver's character does progress more than Bethany's, no argument there.  I did actually really like his development, and I agree that he is the more realistic of the two but in my opinion, the whining just turned me right off him.  Anders and Fenris had my rogue's patience for non-stop complaining worn down by the end of my first playthrough, so in fairness Carver may not have had a fair chance once I started playing as a mage.

On a sidenote, what happened to Anders?  He used to be not only tolerable, but actually enjoyable.  Now I can't stand the guy and he hasn't made it through a single playthrough.

#85
highcastle

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mindblanks2 wrote...

On a sidenote, what happened to Anders?  He used to be not only tolerable, but actually enjoyable.  Now I can't stand the guy and he hasn't made it through a single playthrough.


Aww, no love for Anders? I maintain the shift in his personality was deliberate. He's an example of what can happen to someone who becomes more dedicated to a cause than any individual. Now, I really like his character and the direction the devs took him even if I don't agree with his ultimate actions. I think there's quite a bit of depth to him and he has one of the best story arcs in the game.

In Act 1, there are still touches of his old personality. Between his snarky "A wizard did it" retort and some of his banters with other companions, you can see he retains his sense of humor. By Act 2, there's less of that. His control is slipping, as evidenced by his actions during the Justice plot line. I definitely think his character is stronger if he's romanced. Here he seems to cling to Hawke as a lifeline. He shies away from the cause of mages in an effort to retain his sanity, and ultimately he fails.

What makes it for me is Act 3, though. His paranoia's overwhelmed him. He suspects almost everyone of plotting against him (exceptions being Friend!Hawke, Varric, and possibly Isabela) and he's succombed to Justice's influence. He has a great dialogue with Isabela where he admits that if he won mages their freedom at the cost of others' lives, those innocents would deserve justice too. Then there's the scene with him trying to give away his most prized possessions to his friends. This is a guy who's prepared to die, who wants to die, but he can't bring himself to admit it to Hawke. And his endgame scenario where he just submits to Hawke's judgment either way is absolutely heartbreaking.

I think the key to this downfall is knowing where he came from, though. In Awakening, we definitely see more of the snarky side of Anders. He's also a bit more self-centered, as he admits to Isabela in DA2. Yet the anger at the templars' injustice is still there. You can see it in his behavior towards Rylock and his constant escape attempts. This is a guy who values his freedom above all else. Also keep in mind he was ripped away from his family at a young age. He also just came out of a year of solitary confinement. I'm a criminology student. I've just started studying corrections with a special emphasis on solitary confinement (now called administrative confinement by many places). It's not a good environment. It drives a lot of sane men to the edge, and that's with so-called "modern morality" in place. I can only imagine it's worse in Thedas.

Another thing to keep in mind is the treatment Anders recieved at the hands of the templars. In a banter with Sebastian he mentions rapes and beatings. Though he denies these things happened to him, a part of me wonders just how honest he's being. Given all his escape attempts and his volatile feelings, I think something happened to him down the line. He's also watched his friend and former lover made Tranquil. He's seen some emotionally scarring things. I think just about anyone would come out of that damaged.

Then take Justice. In Awakening he chides Anders for not doing more about the plight of mages. He seems to get involved anytime there's a situation where one party is being oppressed by another. He has zero tolerance for the templars and he's likely spent the past 6 years whispering in Anders' mind about their cruelty. Anders says he feels Justice's thoughts as his own, though we also see times when Justice supercedes Anders' default personality. Just how the possession works is thus unclear, but it's evident Anders isn't always responsible for all his actions.

Take Anders abuse and desire for freedom, couple it with Justice's refusal to compromise in any situation and extreme views on oppression, and it's easy to see how Anders jumped off the slippery slope. You still don't have to like him. He takes a pretty hard line view, after all. Personally, though, I think his story arc was more tragic because we saw how he was in Awakening. We saw the jovial mage yearning for freedom and we watched that twist and darken until he took his desires to the furthest possible conclusion.

#86
infernalserpent

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Love that comment, highcastle. Great read!

I've had Anders on the friend-romance and the rivalmance path with different Hawkes, and his story is even more tragic in the latter case because you can persuade him that the merging with Justice was wrong, he's a monster, he has to fight back. And when Justice suddenly emerges in a conversation to rant at you and Anders comes back with no memory of it, you realize that Anders has been losing his very self for years, to obsession and abomination blackouts, until there's almost nothing left of who he once was.

I was quite moved, more than I've been about a video-game character in a while. Wanted to smite the hell out of Justice, too.

#87
Blansten

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Any of Isabela, Varric and Merrill discussions as you walk. The best being Isabela and Varric each trying to talk Merrill out of her final demon quest

When Isabela comes back with the Tome of Kusland
When Varric kills Quentin for you

#88
mindblanks2

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highcastle wrote...

mindblanks2 wrote...

On a sidenote, what happened to Anders?  He used to be not only tolerable, but actually enjoyable.  Now I can't stand the guy and he hasn't made it through a single playthrough.


Aww, no love for Anders? I maintain the shift in his personality was deliberate. He's an example of what can happen to someone who becomes more dedicated to a cause than any individual. Now, I really like his character and the direction the devs took him even if I don't agree with his ultimate actions. I think there's quite a bit of depth to him and he has one of the best story arcs in the game.

In Act 1, there are still touches of his old personality. Between his snarky "A wizard did it" retort and some of his banters with other companions, you can see he retains his sense of humor. By Act 2, there's less of that. His control is slipping, as evidenced by his actions during the Justice plot line. I definitely think his character is stronger if he's romanced. Here he seems to cling to Hawke as a lifeline. He shies away from the cause of mages in an effort to retain his sanity, and ultimately he fails.

What makes it for me is Act 3, though. His paranoia's overwhelmed him. He suspects almost everyone of plotting against him (exceptions being Friend!Hawke, Varric, and possibly Isabela) and he's succombed to Justice's influence. He has a great dialogue with Isabela where he admits that if he won mages their freedom at the cost of others' lives, those innocents would deserve justice too. Then there's the scene with him trying to give away his most prized possessions to his friends. This is a guy who's prepared to die, who wants to die, but he can't bring himself to admit it to Hawke. And his endgame scenario where he just submits to Hawke's judgment either way is absolutely heartbreaking.

I think the key to this downfall is knowing where he came from, though. In Awakening, we definitely see more of the snarky side of Anders. He's also a bit more self-centered, as he admits to Isabela in DA2. Yet the anger at the templars' injustice is still there. You can see it in his behavior towards Rylock and his constant escape attempts. This is a guy who values his freedom above all else. Also keep in mind he was ripped away from his family at a young age. He also just came out of a year of solitary confinement. I'm a criminology student. I've just started studying corrections with a special emphasis on solitary confinement (now called administrative confinement by many places). It's not a good environment. It drives a lot of sane men to the edge, and that's with so-called "modern morality" in place. I can only imagine it's worse in Thedas.

Another thing to keep in mind is the treatment Anders recieved at the hands of the templars. In a banter with Sebastian he mentions rapes and beatings. Though he denies these things happened to him, a part of me wonders just how honest he's being. Given all his escape attempts and his volatile feelings, I think something happened to him down the line. He's also watched his friend and former lover made Tranquil. He's seen some emotionally scarring things. I think just about anyone would come out of that damaged.

Then take Justice. In Awakening he chides Anders for not doing more about the plight of mages. He seems to get involved anytime there's a situation where one party is being oppressed by another. He has zero tolerance for the templars and he's likely spent the past 6 years whispering in Anders' mind about their cruelty. Anders says he feels Justice's thoughts as his own, though we also see times when Justice supercedes Anders' default personality. Just how the possession works is thus unclear, but it's evident Anders isn't always responsible for all his actions.

Take Anders abuse and desire for freedom, couple it with Justice's refusal to compromise in any situation and extreme views on oppression, and it's easy to see how Anders jumped off the slippery slope. You still don't have to like him. He takes a pretty hard line view, after all. Personally, though, I think his story arc was more tragic because we saw how he was in Awakening. We saw the jovial mage yearning for freedom and we watched that twist and darken until he took his desires to the furthest possible conclusion.


You know what?  I honestly never considered it that way.  Hows that for depth in your video game characters?  It does make a lot of sense though.  I could see him being traumatized as you say from what he's seen, never mind what he may have been through.  Also, I think a lot of my dislike towards him now has to do with the fact that I never got the "Justice" quest in Act 3 for whatever reason in my other playthroughs.  Seeing that made me appreciate him a little more, since he is at least trying to remedy the situation, and he is aware that there isn't going to be a very happy outcome for him.

Fantastic post, and thanks for all the tidbits of information, it was really interesting.  I might not like his moaning, but at least I see where it's coming from!

#89
theauthority

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infernalserpent wrote...

Love that comment, highcastle. Great read!

I've had Anders on the friend-romance and the rivalmance path with different Hawkes, and his story is even more tragic in the latter case because you can persuade him that the merging with Justice was wrong, he's a monster, he has to fight back. And when Justice suddenly emerges in a conversation to rant at you and Anders comes back with no memory of it, you realize that Anders has been losing his very self for years, to obsession and abomination blackouts, until there's almost nothing left of who he once was.

I was quite moved, more than I've been about a video-game character in a while. Wanted to smite the hell out of Justice, too.


Part of the problem is Anders himself, though. He's the one who accepted to merge with Justice in the first place, he's basically dug his own grave. You can say he was too naive, innocent (more or less) to think Justice would not end up like any other spirit from the Fade. Justice hacked and exploited Anders understandable will for freedom, so - who's the fool now? Hawke, romancing him or not, gotta put up with his mistakes caused by his own doing - and he/she gets yelled at if no help is lent. I wonder who's being selfish now.

To justify Anders, and Anders alone, you might want to think of him as being of unsound mind, like a mentally ill defendant. Otherwise he looks just as guilty to me.
Merrill's right when she says - through banter - it was foolish of him to think there are good spirits in the Fade. When she wants to use a demon, she knows this is gonna end bad. Anders thought he knew better and paid the price of all mages dealing with demons. Joke's on him, apparently. That's why I don't feel any pity for him, self-righteousness has its consequences.

#90
infernalserpent

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I do view him as guilty. Absolutely. That's where the tragedy comes from: I see how he's fallen, through his own mistakes, and I mourn that it turned out that way, even while I have Hawke kill him. It's very Greek, classic-tragic-hero stuff, and I love it!

#91
cihimi

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It's "Who", not "What"... <sigh>

#92
mindblanks2

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theauthority wrote...

infernalserpent wrote...

Love that comment, highcastle. Great read!

I've had Anders on the friend-romance and the rivalmance path with different Hawkes, and his story is even more tragic in the latter case because you can persuade him that the merging with Justice was wrong, he's a monster, he has to fight back. And when Justice suddenly emerges in a conversation to rant at you and Anders comes back with no memory of it, you realize that Anders has been losing his very self for years, to obsession and abomination blackouts, until there's almost nothing left of who he once was.

I was quite moved, more than I've been about a video-game character in a while. Wanted to smite the hell out of Justice, too.


Part of the problem is Anders himself, though. He's the one who accepted to merge with Justice in the first place, he's basically dug his own grave. You can say he was too naive, innocent (more or less) to think Justice would not end up like any other spirit from the Fade. Justice hacked and exploited Anders understandable will for freedom, so - who's the fool now? Hawke, romancing him or not, gotta put up with his mistakes caused by his own doing - and he/she gets yelled at if no help is lent. I wonder who's being selfish now.

To justify Anders, and Anders alone, you might want to think of him as being of unsound mind, like a mentally ill defendant. Otherwise he looks just as guilty to me.
Merrill's right when she says - through banter - it was foolish of him to think there are good spirits in the Fade. When she wants to use a demon, she knows this is gonna end bad. Anders thought he knew better and paid the price of all mages dealing with demons. Joke's on him, apparently. That's why I don't feel any pity for him, self-righteousness has its consequences.



I thought that as well.  But while it was undoubtedly a stupid mistake, and a great risk, at least he did something.  Personally I felt the mages are crazy oppressed in this series, and nobody seems willing to accept any other course of action that sways from the status quo.  While I don't agree with what he did, and Merrill is quite right, I can appreciate that he tried to do something. 

With that in mind, I will still kill him when the time comes.

#93
highcastle

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theauthority wrote...

infernalserpent wrote...

Love that comment, highcastle. Great read!

I've had Anders on the friend-romance and the rivalmance path with different Hawkes, and his story is even more tragic in the latter case because you can persuade him that the merging with Justice was wrong, he's a monster, he has to fight back. And when Justice suddenly emerges in a conversation to rant at you and Anders comes back with no memory of it, you realize that Anders has been losing his very self for years, to obsession and abomination blackouts, until there's almost nothing left of who he once was.

I was quite moved, more than I've been about a video-game character in a while. Wanted to smite the hell out of Justice, too.


Part of the problem is Anders himself, though. He's the one who accepted to merge with Justice in the first place, he's basically dug his own grave. You can say he was too naive, innocent (more or less) to think Justice would not end up like any other spirit from the Fade. Justice hacked and exploited Anders understandable will for freedom, so - who's the fool now? Hawke, romancing him or not, gotta put up with his mistakes caused by his own doing - and he/she gets yelled at if no help is lent. I wonder who's being selfish now.

To justify Anders, and Anders alone, you might want to think of him as being of unsound mind, like a mentally ill defendant. Otherwise he looks just as guilty to me.
Merrill's right when she says - through banter - it was foolish of him to think there are good spirits in the Fade. When she wants to use a demon, she knows this is gonna end bad. Anders thought he knew better and paid the price of all mages dealing with demons. Joke's on him, apparently. That's why I don't feel any pity for him, self-righteousness has its consequences.



Except we also saw how Justice was in Awakening. Did you think back then he'd be capable of blowing up the Chantry? I really don't know. At the time, he didn't seem to have a problem with religion. I think he sees Anders' thoughts and memories through Anders' eyes, and the injustice of it overwhelms him. Yes, Merrill says there are no good spirits in th Fade. But would you call the Justice of Awakening a "bad" spirit? He seemed fairly noble to me.

I'll agree with you a bit about the mental illness. I don't think Anders was in his right mind. I don't think Justice was either. I think they were both a bit blindsided by what happened with their merger, and neither came out unscathed. And I absolutely pity the both of them. Alone, I don't think either would have been capable of this act. Merged, it seems inevitable.

#94
mindblanks2

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highcastle wrote...

theauthority wrote...

infernalserpent wrote...

Love that comment, highcastle. Great read!

I've had Anders on the friend-romance and the rivalmance path with different Hawkes, and his story is even more tragic in the latter case because you can persuade him that the merging with Justice was wrong, he's a monster, he has to fight back. And when Justice suddenly emerges in a conversation to rant at you and Anders comes back with no memory of it, you realize that Anders has been losing his very self for years, to obsession and abomination blackouts, until there's almost nothing left of who he once was.

I was quite moved, more than I've been about a video-game character in a while. Wanted to smite the hell out of Justice, too.


Part of the problem is Anders himself, though. He's the one who accepted to merge with Justice in the first place, he's basically dug his own grave. You can say he was too naive, innocent (more or less) to think Justice would not end up like any other spirit from the Fade. Justice hacked and exploited Anders understandable will for freedom, so - who's the fool now? Hawke, romancing him or not, gotta put up with his mistakes caused by his own doing - and he/she gets yelled at if no help is lent. I wonder who's being selfish now.

To justify Anders, and Anders alone, you might want to think of him as being of unsound mind, like a mentally ill defendant. Otherwise he looks just as guilty to me.
Merrill's right when she says - through banter - it was foolish of him to think there are good spirits in the Fade. When she wants to use a demon, she knows this is gonna end bad. Anders thought he knew better and paid the price of all mages dealing with demons. Joke's on him, apparently. That's why I don't feel any pity for him, self-righteousness has its consequences.



Except we also saw how Justice was in Awakening. Did you think back then he'd be capable of blowing up the Chantry? I really don't know. At the time, he didn't seem to have a problem with religion. I think he sees Anders' thoughts and memories through Anders' eyes, and the injustice of it overwhelms him. Yes, Merrill says there are no good spirits in th Fade. But would you call the Justice of Awakening a "bad" spirit? He seemed fairly noble to me.

I'll agree with you a bit about the mental illness. I don't think Anders was in his right mind. I don't think Justice was either. I think they were both a bit blindsided by what happened with their merger, and neither came out unscathed. And I absolutely pity the both of them. Alone, I don't think either would have been capable of this act. Merged, it seems inevitable.


But the part that makes me wonder is what exactly was it that twisted both of them so much?  Awakening's version of Justice and Anders both seemed more... well, just, for lack of a better word.  They were both far more noble than in DA2.  What exactly was it about the merger that changed the both of them so much?  It seems to me that Justice had twisted and changed sometime in between DAO:A and DA2, and that's assuming that Anders hadn't changed at all as well.  I don't know.  I'm almost inclined to think that maybe he's playing up the whole "Justice posession" thing, in order to attract others to his cause.

#95
Sable Rhapsody

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mindblanks2 wrote...

But the part that makes me wonder is what exactly was it that twisted both of them so much?  Awakening's version of Justice and Anders both seemed more... well, just, for lack of a better word.  They were both far more noble than in DA2.  What exactly was it about the merger that changed the both of them so much?  It seems to me that Justice had twisted and changed sometime in between DAO:A and DA2, and that's assuming that Anders hadn't changed at all as well.  I don't know.  I'm almost inclined to think that maybe he's playing up the whole "Justice posession" thing, in order to attract others to his cause.


Anders' anger.  He says it himself.  And Justice says in Awakening that demons are merely spirits who have been perverted and warped by their desires.

You could even make the argument that by wanting to stick around in the mortal world, keep taking hosts (whether corpse or willing living host), Justice already began the dangerous slide to demon back in Awakening.  He certainly fell in love with elements of the mortal realm, and he wanted to stay.  That's one of the first hallmarks of a demon.

Combine that with Anders' fear, hatred, and anger toward the templars, and it's little wonder Justice became corrupted into Vengeance so quickly.  The line between the two is blurry at the best of times, let alone with a corrupted spirit inside your soul.

#96
mindblanks2

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

mindblanks2 wrote...

But the part that makes me wonder is what exactly was it that twisted both of them so much?  Awakening's version of Justice and Anders both seemed more... well, just, for lack of a better word.  They were both far more noble than in DA2.  What exactly was it about the merger that changed the both of them so much?  It seems to me that Justice had twisted and changed sometime in between DAO:A and DA2, and that's assuming that Anders hadn't changed at all as well.  I don't know.  I'm almost inclined to think that maybe he's playing up the whole "Justice posession" thing, in order to attract others to his cause.


Anders' anger.  He says it himself.  And Justice says in Awakening that demons are merely spirits who have been perverted and warped by their desires.

You could even make the argument that by wanting to stick around in the mortal world, keep taking hosts (whether corpse or willing living host), Justice already began the dangerous slide to demon back in Awakening.  He certainly fell in love with elements of the mortal realm, and he wanted to stay.  That's one of the first hallmarks of a demon.

Combine that with Anders' fear, hatred, and anger toward the templars, and it's little wonder Justice became corrupted into Vengeance so quickly.  The line between the two is blurry at the best of times, let alone with a corrupted spirit inside your soul.


Well, there was some major overlooking on my part.  Thanks, and I would agree with you about Justice starting to shift even in Awakenings.

#97
Sable Rhapsody

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mindblanks2 wrote...

Well, there was some major overlooking on my part.  Thanks, and I would agree with you about Justice starting to shift even in Awakenings.


No problem.  This is the job of the Anderstian, to pick apart every single tiny little bit of Anders/Justice dialogue with scary precision :o

#98
mindblanks2

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Sable Rhapsody wrote...

mindblanks2 wrote...

Well, there was some major overlooking on my part.  Thanks, and I would agree with you about Justice starting to shift even in Awakenings.


No problem.  This is the job of the Anderstian, to pick apart every single tiny little bit of Anders/Justice dialogue with scary precision :o


Well, it seems I have a new appreciation of the depth of his character now, thanks to this thread!  Though I do retain, he is still monumentally douchey at times ("Wonder if we'll find more than a bag of bones this time" anyone?).

#99
LT123

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I love the guy, but that "bag of bones" comment made me want to facepalm. Although it's not like he's the only companion who makes dumb/insensitive/jerkish remarks.

My favorite companion moments include Varric shooting Gaspard, Anders' scene with Hawke after Leandra's death, the kiss scene with Anders, Merrill breaking the mirror, Aveline punching the darkspawn in the face, and Sebastian and Isabella's intros.

#100
mindblanks2

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LT123 wrote...

I love the guy, but that "bag of bones" comment made me want to facepalm. Although it's not like he's the only companion who makes dumb/insensitive/jerkish remarks.

My favorite companion moments include Varric shooting Gaspard, Anders' scene with Hawke after Leandra's death, the kiss scene with Anders, Merrill breaking the mirror, Aveline punching the darkspawn in the face, and Sebastian and Isabella's intros.


True, that one was just a huge "What a jerk!" moment for me.

What was Sebastian's intro again?  The bit with him and Elthina arguing about his Chantry board post?