411 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

ok then

Bioware wants an active way of managing weapons.

Uh....GoW did that with the Troikas. Instead of having a "reload" button, Bioware, add a VENT button that allows us to deplete the heat buildup. Hello you can even give it a nice in-universe explanation by saying a Mass Effect field reduces the mass of the air around the heatsink while keeping the same "actual" volume thus supercooling it and allowing for faster heat dispersion.


everyone wins

[Endurium]

After playing ME1 and ME2 and starting a new character in ME1, I definitely prefer ME1's way of handling weapon heat. Sure, you can mod the weapon so you can spray ammo forever, but that doesn't mean you have to. I prefer accurate shooting over the garden hose approach, and it's better to limit myself than be artificially limited by the game.

Since Bioware will probably (because they think their ideas are better) keep clips in ME3, I suggest giving enemies finite amounts of ammo so we're on equal terms. That and increase the chance of enemies dropping clips.

All in all, I prefer ME1 over ME2; hopefully ME3 won't leave me preferring ME1 over ME3.

[IntrepidProdigy]

Endurium wrote...

After playing ME1 and ME2 and starting a new character in ME1, I definitely prefer ME1's way of handling weapon heat. Sure, you can mod the weapon so you can spray ammo forever, but that doesn't mean you have to. I prefer accurate shooting over the garden hose approach, and it's better to limit myself than be artificially limited by the game.

Another thing people don't realize about ME1 is that if you modded your gun to "fire forever" it produced significantly weaker damage than say attaching 2 rail extension VII's for example. It was balanced in the sense that you would build up quite a bit more heat, but you would have twice if not three times the damage output. An even compromise. On ME1's insanity difficulty, the more damage your guns have the better, considering every enemy took more damage than a tank.

ME1's weapon system just provided so much more versatility (I'm quite pleased that they're bringing weapon mods back for ME3), and again held on to that interesting 'futuristic' feel. They could have tweaked the same system in ME2 so that if you wanted to "fire forever" your damage output would be significantly weaker and unappealing than adding mods for more damage, and the mods for more damage could speed up the heating process that much more to prevent you from eternal suppressive fire. They could have focused more on enemy tactics instead of gimping the player. But instead, they went with the boring and ever so cliche route of making it feel like guns haven't progressed since the early 20th century.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Mesina2 wrote...

Also Thermal Clips also encourage to swamp weapons more often.
You know, save ammo for for more powerful gun for example.

Really? In my Soldier file I only occasionally had ammo issues that forced my swap from whoring the Mattock. If I recall it was two or three levels throughout the entire game. Likewise, I scarcely had to switch out the Widow and using the Claymore as a Vanguard I never used anything else. I even ripped through the Praetorian with it. Now before anyone asks, yes this was on Insanity. If you have good aim you never have noticeable ammo qualms barring rare instances.

All the Thermal Clips brought was having to chase around the map looking for ammo after a firefight. Frankly, I couldn't care less what they opt to do as I have become accustom to ME2's system however if asked of my preference, ME1's is definitely superior.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 19 avril 2011 - 06:39 .

[Bluko]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Can someone tell me what's so difficult and stressful about checking the ground for a few thermal clips after the fight?

Also, if you run out of bullets, just switch weapons/start using your offensive powers, adapt to a new tactic and fight that way.

Some people makes it sound way worse than it really is.

It's not stressful, it's just annoying.

What's truly annoying is how certain clips can be difficult to pick up and how they seem to sporadically drop from enemies. There's been too many times in ME2 where I almost literally have to dance over the thermal clip before it gets picked up. So you see there is a problem in that there is a bug involved with clips. Usually not a big deal, but like on the Crashed Mech ship mission on Insanity yeah that can kind of become a problem since it's very prone to happen in that mission given some of the sloppy terrain framing. More or less it's quite easy for a clip to get stuck under the actual level geometry. In general I've noticed ME2 has a lot of haphazard terrain, not that ME1 was perfect, but it's rather glaring in some places like Horizon as well.

Really the addition of ammo hasn't changed or hampered how I play the game, say from ME1. I just tend to not use certain weapons as a result. Which really isn't an improvement in my books. You should switch weapons based on the style of the engagement, not because you are limited on ammo. Yes you always have powers to spam, but what's the fun of letting your abilities do all the work?

Modifié par Bluko, 19 avril 2011 - 06:50 .

[ADLegend21]

I never had any problems with ammo. I blaze threw emenies on any class and it would just be in my path. The revenant was useful because it had so much ammo, plus heavy weapon ammo also reloaded your guns too. Not seeing the problem with this other than another "ME1 was better" arguement.

[Endurium]

Well, one person's experience doesn't necessarily invalidate another's. I prefer ME1 because it feels different than other games, while ME2 tries to be more like a shooter.

Modifié par Endurium, 19 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[ifander]

Jesus christ, not this again.

Please do NOT remove ammo clips from ME3, k?

This has been argued to death already, and my guess would be that the majority of players like the new system introduced in ME2. The explanation given in the codex is not perfect, and there are some problems (like Jacobs mission) but overall it's not something you notice. In the end it comes down to personal preference, this is such a small issue, lore wise, that gameplay obviously trumps lore.

Also, people seem to forget that the ammo system was introduced along with stronger, more accurate weapons, with the "hit where you aim" feel, rather than what ME1 did. Reinstating unlimited ammo would mean going back to that weapons handling, otherwise they would get overpowered. And having spent more than 400 hours on this game I can safely say that the ability to reload has saved my behind on many occasions.

[Endurium]

I didn't notice the weapons were stronger on casual difficulty in ME2; it took me two to three times longer (more ammo) to kill things than in ME1.

As I said earlier, what I liked about ME1 was that it was different from shooters, but apparently people just can't handle that. I have real shooters when I feel like picking up ammo and reloading.

[bald man in a boat]

It all comes down to preference. Bioware prefers thermal clips.

[The Spamming Troll]

Phaedon wrote...

No, please DON'T.

ME1's system was horrible and the hybrid that you can see in mods is far far worse.

i LOVED ME1s weapons. it made the gunplay unique and modding was interesting enough. ive never played a game that had guns like ME1. i sure as hell have played alot of em with bullets like ME2 tho. im not saying bullets are bad, i love gears of war and call of duty, im just saying the change wasnt needed.

i really dont beleive a hybrid system was bad, and imediately canned. im somehwat of a moron, and i can easily come up with a weapon system that works, makes sense, and is unique to a futristic scy fi game and it starts with ME1, not ME2.

[Schattenkeil]

Endurium wrote...

As I said earlier, what I liked about ME1 was that it was different from shooters, but apparently people just can't handle that. I have real shooters when I feel like picking up ammo and reloading.

People who desire difference for difference's own sake are the most pitiable kind of fashion victim, imho. So yes, you might say I don't get it. Personally I like or dislike game functions because they make the game more or less enjoyable, not because they are more similar to or or more different from other games.

[M8DMAN]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

No, please DON'T.

ME1's system was horrible and the hybrid that you can see in mods is far far worse.

i LOVED ME1s weapons. it made the gunplay unique and modding was interesting enough. ive never played a game that had guns like ME1. i sure as hell have played alot of em with bullets like ME2 tho. im not saying bullets are bad, i love gears of war and call of duty, im just saying the change wasnt needed.

i really dont beleive a hybrid system was bad, and imediately canned. im somehwat of a moron, and i can easily come up with a weapon system that works, makes sense, and is unique to a futristic scy fi game and it starts with ME1, not ME2.

I agree.  ME3 needs a hybrid system or at least more thermal clips.

I want more Clips for the shotgun. the shotgun was my main weapon in ME but in ME2 I barely used it due to the lack of ammo.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 19 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I'm someone who played ME2 before playing ME1 and I have to say ME2 had the supperior ammo system. When I played a mission in ME2 it was always fun but when I played a mission onf ME1 it felt like a chore and that isn't a good thing with 50% of your game feels like its some horrible thing that has to be done to move the story forward.

[Praetor Knight]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i really dont beleive a hybrid system was bad, and imediately canned. im somehwat of a moron, and i can easily come up with a weapon system that works, makes sense, and is unique to a futristic scy fi game and it starts with ME1, not ME2.

Well, on a hybrid system:

From here: http://www.gamesrada...051114473989090

Norman’s team turned the RPG systems off completely and spent 81 calendar days tuning how combat would work in Mass Effect 2 using the original Mass Effect as a foundation.

*snip*

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

*snip*

“Mass Effect 2 was really a triumph of game development,” says Hudson. “On time, on budget, and exceeding quality goals. And we did this despite some major challenges that couldn’t have been foreseen. The recession that rocked the world economy hit the game industry pretty hard. Like other studios, we had to take a hard look at our costs and find ways to get through it without impacting our ambitious goals for the game. We also were hit hard by H1N1. Just as we were pushing to finish the game, much of the team went down with illness and we lost over a man-year of time over the span of a couple months. It’s a huge credit to the team that we were able to release a very high quality game on time, even though they had to push through some tough times.”

Also Christina was kind enough to post on the forums: http://social.biowar...2912/13#5690482

I've wrote it before, and I'll write it again, Kudos to Bioware.


And if it is left in the game files for ME3, one could always mod if ME3 keeps ME2's Thermal Clips: http://social.biowar...79522/2#2186453

[cactusberry]

I love thermal clips. It's annoying for a soldier when a weapon overheats. I think after you run out of clips, you should be able to keep firing, but now it can overheat until you find more clips.

[The Spamming Troll]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i really dont beleive a hybrid system was bad, and imediately canned. im somehwat of a moron, and i can easily come up with a weapon system that works, makes sense, and is unique to a futristic scy fi game and it starts with ME1, not ME2.

Well, on a hybrid system:

From here: http://www.gamesrada...051114473989090

Norman’s team turned the RPG systems off completely and spent 81 calendar days tuning how combat would work in Mass Effect 2 using the original Mass Effect as a foundation.

*snip*

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

*snip*

“Mass Effect 2 was really a triumph of game development,” says Hudson. “On time, on budget, and exceeding quality goals. And we did this despite some major challenges that couldn’t have been foreseen. The recession that rocked the world economy hit the game industry pretty hard. Like other studios, we had to take a hard look at our costs and find ways to get through it without impacting our ambitious goals for the game. We also were hit hard by H1N1. Just as we were pushing to finish the game, much of the team went down with illness and we lost over a man-year of time over the span of a couple months. It’s a huge credit to the team that we were able to release a very high quality game on time, even though they had to push through some tough times.”

Also Christina was kind enough to post on the forums: http://social.biowar...2912/13#5690482

I've wrote it before, and I'll write it again, Kudos to Bioware.


And if it is left in the game files for ME3, one could always mod if ME3 keeps ME2's Thermal Clips: http://social.biowar...79522/2#2186453

well then it looks like christina norman sucks at doing her job.

[Praetor Knight]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

well then it looks like christina norman sucks at doing her job.

[Bourne Endeavor]

ifander wrote...

Jesus christ, not this again.

Please do NOT remove ammo clips from ME3, k?

This has been argued to death already, and my guess would be that the majority of players like the new system introduced in ME2. The explanation given in the codex is not perfect, and there are some problems (like Jacobs mission) but overall it's not something you notice. In the end it comes down to personal preference, this is such a small issue, lore wise, that gameplay obviously trumps lore.

Also, people seem to forget that the ammo system was introduced along with stronger, more accurate weapons, with the "hit where you aim" feel, rather than what ME1 did. Reinstating unlimited ammo would mean going back to that weapons handling, otherwise they would get overpowered. And having spent more than 400 hours on this game I can safely say that the ability to reload has saved my behind on many occasions.

Or you could simply eliminate the middle man by having guns reload infinite ammo under the veil of "overheating." Essentially, all that has been altered is having to track down clips on a given map or being forced to swap weapons if you aim is less than stellar. The balance factor would come from overheating with frequent and repeated fire.

[Durgon Ironfist]

Mykel54 wrote...

I really liked the improvements of the ME2 combat system over the first game, but what annoyed me to no end is having to look up for ammo for my weapons. I don´t like shooters too much, and one of the reasons is that they all use ammo. When i played ME1 i was delighted to see the weapon heat system and how it worked, it stopped you from shooting non-stop but at the same time avoid the mindless grind for ammo. You could waste a shot here an there without worry, say shooting at a crystal or the water to see the effect. With ammo you can´t waste any shoot doing these things.

My suggestion for ME3 is to remove ammo completely for the game, and bring the old heat system back. Instead of ammo there would be certain mods like in ME1 that allowed you to fire longer. The recharge button "R", would now consist on a heatsink but not like those on ME2. When you press R your weapon automatically cool down, instead of you having to wait to cool off like in ME1, and shepard does the reload animation as the heat sink goes off. I believe this is the best of both systems. Powerful weapons would have very high heat increase after each shoot, and heavy weapons may be the exception, having a limited number of charges per mission. Say a grenade launcher has 10 shots, that replenish after each mission, so you don´t have to go around looking for ammo as well.

I wonder what other people thought about the ammo system, i think it was agaisnt the lore of the game and was also a liabilty that added nothing to the game, but instead made it more similar to all the other shooters out there. I know there are older threads about this topic but given that ME3 is not too far away i think it is a good time to bring up this topic to see what people think about it.

Yeah no. The heat system was terrible and if you can't manage your ammo supply you fail at gaming as a whole simple as that.

[Ship.wreck_]

Durgon Ironfist wrote...
Yeah no. The heat system was terrible and if you can't manage your ammo supply you fail at gaming as a whole simple as that.

Yeah no. Limited ammo is terrible, doesn't make any sense in the premises of the game and "thermal clips" are a lie to make it sound like there isn't limited ammo; and if you can't manage heat you fail at gaming as a whole simple as that.

[Last Vizard]

YES, what military would switch to a system where they need to worry about ammo logistics, i really liked how ME 1 was more realistic with advance weapons although the lack of energy based weapons was a little stupid...

MIlitary Command: "what is this?"
Thermal clip salesguy: "Thermal clips, like the old ammo clip"
MC: "like ammo clip?"
TCSucks: "yeah"
MC: *facepalm* "next"

Bring back the old class power system too.

[Ship.wreck_]

Exactly! What Vizard said. Only an idiot would CHOOSE a weapon with limited ammo OVER a weapon with unlimited ammo.

And I just can't bring myself to believe that every single character in the ME universe is stupid enough to make that call.

[Last Vizard]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Exactly! What Vizard said. Only an idiot would CHOOSE a weapon with limited ammo OVER a weapon with unlimited ammo.

And I just can't bring myself to believe that every single character in the ME universe is stupid enough to make that call.

I think this is where we pat each other on the back, "we are so smart, S M R T" lol
yes on purpose.

don't see any drones or UAVs too... the movie surrogates is an idea the Military has had for a long time but we just don't have the balancing tech or fast enough computers YET.... so who droped the ball in the ME universe?
too many conventional weapons, Batarian mirror thing was a good step towards impossible to predict space age warfare but ME is all still inside the box sci-fi tech.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 20 avril 2011 - 07:30 .

[JediNg]

No.