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[eye basher]

keep the thermal clip in ME it was to easy to just put 2 heat sinks X and just hold the fire button down and just hose everything.

[Lvl20DM]

They could have always removed the ability to make a weapon incapable of overheating. I don't think that's the only reason they implemented thermal clips. Clips keep the fight moving forward - you can't sit in one spot and shoot for an entire battle (with the same gun at least). Clips encourage you to get up and move around. They also allow you to design weapons differently; clips added in another element to a gun. You can now have some weapons have more reserve ammo, or more shots before reloading.

As was mentioned previously, I think the guns hold the reserve clips in the gun itself. Clips are very small (when you eject them, not when you pick them up).

[Ashira Shepard]

Fixers0 wrote...
What another one ,

Here,

The only explantion behind termal clips is from the codex, that states that Thermal clipps were introduced for higher rates of fire, first of all the only weapons that would need a high DPS are the SMG, and the Assault rifle, for all Sniper rifle, they can just wait for the weapon to cool down instead of searching the battlefield for a clip since the can't use the one from their pistol.

*ahem* My addition was for kicks, you missed my point.

It's just ammo clips.

They're such a tiny part of the game, why is there such a big deal made out of it? The only reason I would be annoyed if they did put it back to ME1 type ammo is because they've just zig-zagged for nothing into a mechanic that's clunky and irritating.

[Fixers0]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

No only, one thermal clips is in each weapon, each time a weapon overheat, it will eject and a new one will be inserted.

Well, Thermal Clips are not described in detail and if you look at the Shotgun and SMG extra rounds upgrade the description mentions smaller heat sinks being used by the weapons: http://masseffect.wi...search#Shotguns

http://masseffect.wi...Submachine_Guns

So if all termal clips are loaded into the weapon this would mean that a widow sniper Rifle has 13 clips inside it, even so, why can't you eject an cool, heatsink from your pistol and put it into your Assault Rifle. 

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

What another one ,

No, not "another one". You're just restating the same misconception: that gameplay mechanics can always be treated as equivalent to lore.  It's an artificial restriction the devs built into the gameplay.  It's not got much to do with how thermal clips "really" work. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 avril 2011 - 07:40 .

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

So if all termal clips are loaded into the weapon this would mean that a widow sniper Rifle has 13 clips inside it, even so, why can't you eject an cool, heatsink from your pistol and put it into your Assault Rifle. 

Because they didn't write any code to handle that.  What is so difficult to grasp about this?

[Fixers0]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
What another one ,

Here,

The only explantion behind termal clips is from the codex, that states that Thermal clipps were introduced for higher rates of fire, first of all the only weapons that would need a high DPS are the SMG, and the Assault rifle, for all Sniper rifle, they can just wait for the weapon to cool down instead of searching the battlefield for a clip since the can't use the one from their pistol.

*ahem* My addition was for kicks, you missed my point.

It's just ammo clips.

They're such a tiny part of the game, why is there such a big deal made out of it? The only reason I would be annoyed if they did put it back to ME1 type ammo is because they've just zig-zagged for nothing into a mechanic that's clunky and irritating.

I prefer Heatclips to infite ammo, but the problem is, as i said before, when the writers put all info into one codex entry but the gameplay  ends up doing things differently, then it's bad writing, if a writer can't be botherd to give a proper explanation because he doesn't work togheter with the gameplay desingners, then why should i even bother with this stuff in the first place. 

Modifié par Fixers0, 12 avril 2011 - 07:45 .

[Avissel]

Plus it would be silly. Like taking a bullet out of one ammo clip and putting it into another during a fire fight.
The actual heat sinks are pretty small and stuck into the clip ,every time you "reload" you are knocking one out of the clip and moving the next one into place.

Fast way you could do it would be to manually eject and unused heat sink from gun A, then take the whole clip out of gun b, put the heat sink into the clip, but the clip back in, and then engage the heat sink. While being shot at.


also I checked the wiki for the codex entry that mentioned the heat clips, it didnt say anything about them being universal.

Modifié par Avissel, 12 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[Praetor Knight]

Fixers0 wrote...

So if all termal clips are loaded into the weapon this would mean that a widow sniper Rifle has 13 clips inside it, even so, why can't you eject an cool, heatsink from your pistol and put it into your Assault Rifle. 

Well I would say that the Widow can fire 13 rounds. Clips are a separate matter from rounds/ cartridges. Also magazines are different from clips.


So, I assume that heat sinks and Thermal Clips are two separate pieces of equipment, where heat sink material is carried inside of the Thermal Clips.

I figure that the reason that we can swap between Thermal Clips is because only the heat sink material is being used inside of the ME2 weapons fitted to make use of Thermal Clips.

[Fixers0]

didymos1120 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

What another one ,

No, not "another one". You're just restating the same misconception: that gameplay mechanics can always be treated as equivalent to lore.  It's an artificial restriction the devs built into the gameplay.  It's not got much to do with how thermal clips "really" work. 

Thus ther is a Lack of coordinated writing, well that's not uncommom

Modifié par Fixers0, 12 avril 2011 - 07:48 .

[Fixers0]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

So if all termal clips are loaded into the weapon this would mean that a widow sniper Rifle has 13 clips inside it, even so, why can't you eject an cool, heatsink from your pistol and put it into your Assault Rifle. 

Well I would say that the Widow can fire 13 rounds. Clips are a separate matter from rounds/ cartridges. Also magazines are different from clips.


So, I assume that heat sinks and Thermal Clips are two separate pieces of equipment, where heat sink material is carried inside of the Thermal Clips.

I figure that the reason that we can swap between Thermal Clips is because only the heat sink material is being used inside of the ME2 weapons fitted to make use of Thermal Clips.

This still doesn't explain why you should put 13 thermal clips into a gun, just so that you can't use it for another gun.

[Avissel]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

So, I assume that heat sinks and Thermal Clips are two separate pieces of equipment, where heat sink material is carried inside of the Thermal Clips.

I figure that the reason that we can swap between Thermal Clips is because only the heat sink material is being used inside of the ME2 weapons fitted to make use of Thermal Clips.

This is correct. There are a few in game scenes where you can see the actual heat sink it's self, it's about the size of a 9mm caseing.

[xboxlivegamer]

Gameplay has to follow the lore? In that case ME3 should give you one life, no health regeneration, and if you die you can't start the game over again.

ALL DAT LOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

[SmokePants]

Thermal clips allow them to design GOOD WEAPONS. Think of the sniper rifles in ME1 vs the sniper rifles in ME2. They were complete garbage in the first game, because if they were any good, you'd just kill every enemy in the game from a safe distance, with maximum efficiency. Good weapons require limited resources. They have to be able to run out of ammo and force the player to decide when and where to best apply limited firepower.

Mass Effect 1 combat was like sleep-walking and the infinite ammo was a big part of that malaise. Cooldowns are not a substitute for a finite ammo system.

With that said, many shooters have taken to giving the sidearm role the property of infinite ammo and it seems to be working out. They are your last option and the opposite end of the spectrum from a sniper rifle, so giving them infinite resources isn't a problem.

Modifié par SmokePants, 12 avril 2011 - 07:55 .

[Fixers0]

xboxlivegamer wrote...

Gameplay has to follow the lore? In that case ME3 should give you one life, no health regeneration, and if you die you can't start the game over again.

ALL DAT LOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

It's a game remember, the Thermal clip stands out, because it changed the entire weapon system and when they give you a codex entry that doesn't equal what happens then , that's bad writing. 

[xboxlivegamer]

Fixers0 wrote...

xboxlivegamer wrote...

Gameplay has to follow the lore? In that case ME3 should give you one life, no health regeneration, and if you die you can't start the game over again.

ALL DAT LOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

It's a game remember, the Thermal clip stands out, because it changed the entire weapon system and when they give you a codex entry that doesn't equal what happens then , that's bad writing. 

No, that's them changing gameplay mechanics to make the game more enjoyable and providing some loose reasoning as to why this change occured inside the lore. What you are suggesting is that because something would be possible within the game's lore, it must co-exist with the gameplay and this is simply not the case when making a video game. You can speak against the ammo system all you want but nothing will change the fact that it makes the gameplay better.

[Praetor Knight]

Fixers0 wrote...

This still doesn't explain why you should put 13 thermal clips into a gun, just so that you can't use it for another gun.

Well, to be honest, there is not enough info on this stuff, but I will build from our contemporary understanding and terms to try to explain why.

A cartridge, also called a round, packages the bullet, gunpowder and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of a firearm.

So for ME2, A round is the shaved piece of metal, accelerated by the electromagnet, which is cooled by the heat sink. And I just remembered that Mass Effect fields are used as well
A clip is a device that is used to store multiple rounds of ammunition together as a unit, ready for insertion into the magazine or cylinder of a firearm.

So for ME2, a Thermal Clip stores the heat sink material that is loaded into the weapons.
A magazine is an ammunition storage and feeding device within or attached to a repeating firearm. Magazines may be integral to the firearm (fixed) or removable (detachable).

So the Thermal Clip is able to refill the integral magazine of the ME2 Weapons for continued firing.
So, ME universe Weapons need at least the ammo block to fire. And to prevent heat related failures, Heat sinks were introduced, but were not enough. Next, thanks to the Geth, disposable heat sinks are produced, and now Thermal Clips are found everywhere.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 12 avril 2011 - 08:04 .

[Fixers0]

xboxlivegamer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

xboxlivegamer wrote...

Gameplay has to follow the lore? In that case ME3 should give you one life, no health regeneration, and if you die you can't start the game over again.

ALL DAT LOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE

It's a game remember, the Thermal clip stands out, because it changed the entire weapon system and when they give you a codex entry that doesn't equal what happens then , that's bad writing. 

No, that's them changing gameplay mechanics to make the game more enjoyable and providing some loose reasoning as to why this change occured inside the lore. What you are suggesting is that because something would be possible within the game's lore, it must co-exist with the gameplay and this is simply not the case when making a video game. You can speak against the ammo system all you want but nothing will change the fact that it makes the gameplay better.

Well then why didn't they paid attention when they were writing the codex entry.

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...


Well then why didn't they paid attention when they were writing the codex entry.

You really don't get the whole "gameplay =/= lore" concept at all, do you?  If you weren't so fixated on thermal clips, you'd realize that all sorts of stuff doesn't line up with the Codex.  Biotics, for instance.  They're flat-out not spammable the way they are in gameplay.  The mass relay network is extremely simplified on the galaxy map. So on. So forth.

[Avissel]

I still want to see this codex entry you keep referring to, I was never able to find one that said they are universal.

[Fixers0]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

This still doesn't explain why you should put 13 thermal clips into a gun, just so that you can't use it for another gun.

Well, to be honest, there is not enough info on this stuff, but I will build from our contemporary understanding and terms to try to explain why.

A cartridge, also called a round, packages the bullet, gunpowder and primer into a single metallic case precisely made to fit the firing chamber of a firearm.

So for ME2, A round is the shaved piece of metal, accelerated by the electromagnet, which is cooled by the heat sink.
A clip is a device that is used to store multiple rounds of ammunition together as a unit, ready for insertion into the magazine or cylinder of a firearm.

So for ME2, a Thermal Clip stores the heat sink material that is loaded into the weapons.
A magazine is an ammunition storage and feeding device within or attached to a repeating firearm. Magazines may be integral to the firearm (fixed) or removable (detachable).

So the Thermal Clip is able to refill the integral magazine of the ME2 Weapons for continued firing.
So, ME universe Weapons need at least the ammo block to fire and to prevent heat related failures.

Heat sinks were introduced, but were not enough. Next, thanks to the Geth, disposable heat sinks are produced, and now Thermal Clips are found everywhere.

Keep it simple.

ME1 .Guns will cool down after a while.

ME2 .Guns need to heatsinks to cool down,

Without any further speculation This simply means that you need a thermal clip to run a weapon otherwis, it will overheat, and melt down or something, 

So you put a thermal clip in your gun, a when it overheats, you eject the heat, sink, then you will insert your next thermal clip to fire again.

[Fixers0]

Avissel wrote...

I still want to see this codex entry you keep referring to, I was never able to find one that said they are universal.

Look at the tooltips during all those great loading screens.

[Praetor Knight]

Well, here is the Codex entry:

Small Arms

Modern infantry weapons are micro-scaled mass accelerators, using mass-reducing fields and magnetic force to propel miniature slugs to lethal speeds. Nearly every gun on the battlefield is laden with features, from targeting auto-assists to projectile shavers that can generate thousands of rounds of ammunition from a small, internal block of metal.

It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

[Mykel54]

Well to be honest, i wouldn´t mind the ammo system if i didn´t have to look for ammo continually.

I would not mind a system where ammo was in, if for example out of combat, your ammo filled up automatically. So say that while you are fighting you have limited resources, but once the fight is over, instead of "clip searching time!", your weapon start refilling it´s own ammo. I think it would be less limiting and still allow you to make a shot here and there for fun (let´s shoot at this lamp, or this crate box) without worrying about ammo.

I understand the point you have made about ammo being a differential element between weapons, and the whole limited resources stuff, but following that theory then all biotics should have a "mana bar" that is spent each time you use a power. I am exaggerating a bit but i hope you get what i meant, i just feel that using biotic/tech powers is a lot less frustrating that my own weapons, because for the powers i only have to worry about the cooldown. For the weapons i can´t waste any shot for fun, and i have to go looking for clips after almost every fight.

[JKoopman]

Why do people keep arguing that if ME returns to a cooldown system that we'll inevitably return to overpowered mods allowing people to shoot forever? Cooldown =/= mods.

Simply put, neither ME2 nor (apparently) ME3 allow you to mod your weapons in a way that would increase cooldown or decrease heat buildup. As long as Frictionless Materials mods aren't put back into the game, the worries about being able to fire forever without regard for overheating are essentially unfounded. All people want is not to have to worry about scrounging for ammo anymore.