411 réponses à ce sujet

[SmokePants]

People are against finding dropped and hidden goodies laying around? Really? That's like game design 101 -- people are supposed to like that activity.

If anything, I think there should be more goodies strewen about. One problem with the thermal clips was that they gave you +x number of shots for each weapon type, which was kind of baffling. I would prefer it if they had specific thermal clips for each weapon type.

[Jagri]

I prefere the older weapon system over the newer one.

But I would agree the new system does more for gameplay and balance. I think its mainly due to the fact most former military or current sees the first games weapon system as being ever soldier's wet dream.

"So your telling me pup I can have a weapon system with virtually unlimited ammo as long as I don't use it like a firehose!"

[Malanek]

Freeway911 wrote...

I like the clips in ME2 but I also play shooters so had no problem getting use to it. Funny thing is I am making another ME1 run now so I can make some changes to the story line and I keep hitting the damn reload button after a fight.

That hurls a grenade doesn't it?

[Pwener2313]

Let's just add a hybrid system so all sides are happy. And ME3 will only have the clip system, otherwise GI would have mentioned it was changed.

[Pwener2313]

Malanek999 wrote...

That hurls a grenade doesn't it?

 
That's holstering.

[AntenDS]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Let's just add a hybrid system so all sides are happy.

Slowing cooling thermal heat sinks. Once you get to the ammo limit you can either pop it out or let it cool down. The cool down process takes a several seconds and you have to have the gun equipped. But in GI they said you can pick up other peoples guns so it doesn't matter much any more.

[Apocalypse89]

i wonder how well a system like this would work:

[Praetor Knight]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Let's just add a hybrid system so all sides are happy. And ME3 will only have the clip system, otherwise GI would have mentioned it was changed.

The concern there is balancing the weapons in ME3. Introducing a hybrid system seems like it will be too tricky since it was already dropped for ME2, in favor of Thermal Clips (but new hybrid weapons would be a different matter I'd guess).

So, I figure going into ME3 with a "if it ain't broke don't try to 'fix' it" mentality would serve ME3 the best for combat.

But minor combat tweaks are more than welcome (like for the Mattock, Incisor, Shockwave, Inferno Grenade, AR and Concussive Shot to name a few).

Shotguns in particular feel different from each other in ME2, and suit different play styles; I'd love to keep that in ME3 and expand that to all weapons since we shall have more flexibility with them in ME3 (and maybe more flexibility with powers too).

[Tony Gunslinger]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Let's just add a hybrid system so all sides are happy. And ME3 will only have the clip system, otherwise GI would have mentioned it was changed.

The hybrid system was actually in the early phase of the game, but during playtesting people hated it. I think you can look for the mod on masseffectsaves or use the editor turn it back on, and see if you like it yourself.

Personally, I find that the sole rationale to bring back unlimited ammo is to correct a minor descrepancy in copywriting pretty hilarious.

[Epic777]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Let's just add a hybrid system so all sides are happy. And ME3 will only have the clip system, otherwise GI would have mentioned it was changed.

The hybrid system was actually in the early phase of the game, but during playtesting people hated it. I think you can look for the mod on masseffectsaves or use the editor turn it back on, and see if you like it yourself.

Personally, I find that the sole rationale to bring back unlimited ammo is to correct a minor descrepancy in copywriting pretty hilarious.

Any idea playtesters did not like.

[Tony Gunslinger]

^ Don't know... but here's a thread about it.

http://social.biowar...89711/9#6039911

[AK404]

Decided to read the OP and skip 3 pages of retarded: it's a gameplay issue.

Limited ammo keeps battles from turning into turtling in one spot and outlast the opposition. It forces you to push forward, pick your weapons carefully (instead of lol marksman pistol or bust), keep your squadmates in line, and position them correctly.

I could understand the unlimited ammo/overheating gameplay when you were using stupid squadmate AI with no ability to position them individually, but now that you can do so, the ME1 system would actually be a bad thing. Compare the time needed to pop heat sinks versus the time needed to wait for an overheated weapon to cool down, for example.

[Bluko]

Well OP that's not going to happen. It's pretty much a done deal at this point that thermal clips are going to stay.

It's a sad reality to me, cause Mass Effect did something to actually differentiate itself from every other shooter out there. Mass Effect as it is now is basically like any other shooter, except with magic powers. And plenty of games have done the shooting + magic abilities before as well. So one of the interesting things Mass Effect had going for it they scrapped. Mostly I think to cater to individuals who can't ever let go of the trigger, since I never found overheating bothersome. Which makes no sense, since with the addition of ammo you now must control your fire and make every single shot count. I'm going to be honest the ammo constraints has made the game less interesting, since it's pretty telling of how many enemies you're expected to encounter. And if there are more you have to go to a resupply corner or walk over a deady body while getting shot.

Thermal clips were added to purely make the game more accessible to people who've only played shooters like CoD. It's kind of grating to see all the Devs out there fall to the pressure of big titles like Halo and CoD.

Also you now have the sillyness that squadmates have unlimited ammo, but you don't? Garrus and Thane must keep a lot of clips handy to use their sniper rifles all the time... See in ME1 this was explained away as well. Most games simply ignore it for gameplay's sake, though I frankly find it a bit immersion breaking that allies or enemies for that matter never run out of ammo themselves


I wouldn't mind thermal clips, if it were for one thing: why aren't they re-usuable? Why would  technology advance to the point of essentially removing the need for small arms ammunition to simply bring it back? How is it a good thing to run out of ammo so readily? If you're facing dozens of enemies the last thing you'd want is to run out of thermal clips and then be rendered helpless. Aren't thermal clips suppose to be the solution to say when an enemy used to use Overload tech on your weapons? But if you run out of them you're helpless anyways.

It's stupid it'd be the same as if everytime you swapped a barrel out say from an MG42 you'd throw it away? No you let it cool off then you'd swap it again.

Why would you simply dispose of thermal clips? Seems like a bad idea to just leave used thermal clips lying around everywhere. Especially if you're a stealth operative or a merc, cause then it's a telltale sign someone was there. Perhaps you think this is trite, but when you consider that most modern or "futuristic" weapons try to incorporate features that don't leave shells behind it, you'd think it become a common feature.

Why have a finite amount of ammo if there is essentially unlimited supply that will drop from enemies or convenient ammo piles? Why not just make the ammo unlimited to begin? Doesn't it really make the game better to have scavenge dead bodies? I thought they were trying to eliminate the ever present need to "loot" every dead man's body.

Perhaps it adds tension to face the possibility of running out of ammo, but if anything it's more lame since you know you could have simply had more ammo to begin with. Nay most of the real "excitement" comes from reloading and or having to make your shots count. I've never heard anyone exclaim they were happy to run out of ammo.

[AK404]

My guess on reusable thermal clips is that the heat sinks involve a considerable amount of time to 'refill,' much in the same way that clips require a considerable amount of time to reload: it simply isn't feasible in a combat setting. One thing I've noticed is that once you've reached a weapon locker, your thermal clips and weapons are back to full.

There are certain gameplay issues one observes, but chooses to overlook in the name of gameplay balance. For example, ever wonder why in COD4, your squadmates could literally take hundreds of shots to the chest yet never die, but one or two bullets is instantly fatal to you, or why those same squadmates never seemed able to kill anything at all despite firing countless clips of ammo?

Giving my squad mates unlimited ammo is one of them, because that tends to be a lifesaver. I don't suppose you remember that in ME1, your squadmates couldn't hit the broad side of a barn because the game seemed to favor combat via attrition, while in ME2, your squadmates are actually capable of killing things because you needed to move forward?

[MassEffect762]

I'd have the ammo "auto" loot.(no more looking down and picking them up)

That's just me though, I find nothing interesting about thermal clips.(the weapons don't cool on their own in ME2 hence no point, unless of course you love shooters)

[Praetor Knight]

Bluko wrote...

Thermal clips were added to purely make the game more accessible to people who've only played shooters like CoD. It's kind of grating to see all the Devs out there fall to the pressure of big titles like Halo and CoD.

Why is this argument brought up from time to time?

I wouldn't mind thermal clips, if it were for one thing: why aren't they re-usuable? Why would  technology advance to the point of essentially removing the need for small arms ammunition to simply bring it back? How is it a good thing to run out of ammo so readily? If you're facing dozens of enemies the last thing you'd want is to run out of thermal clips and then be rendered helpless. Aren't thermal clips suppose to be the solution to say when an enemy used to use Overload tech on your weapons? But if you run out of them you're helpless anyways.

*snip*

There is not much info given by Bioware, so speaking for myself, I have made some assumptions as to how they can work based on what I know about contemporary weapons and from what we are given in ME2. I prefer to believe that Thermal Clips can exist with minor tweaks and improvements to combat in ME3 and address concerns about scarcity at the same time.

I wonder if someone from Bioware can address Thermal Clips at some point also, I'd like to know more.

But I also guess you didn't read others' posts in this thread when you made your post.

[Braag]

I still don't understand why some people hate thermal clips.

[trobbins777]

woods26 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

woods26 wrote...

A bread crumb trail of clips is equally annoying.

Yeah, that's hardly ever what the game does, actually. Usually, they're placed out in the open in a group, often with some power cells and other stuff nearby.  So, next gripe?

You like the system. I think it has issues, get over it.

What if they made rechargable ammo? You use heat clips, for a specific weapon, until you run out then you have to wait for them to cool down before you can use them again. So we can have an ammo system, but not have to constantly pick up new clips.

[MassEffect762]

Braag wrote...

I still don't understand why some people hate thermal clips.

Speaking for myself I don't see the point of ammo as it is currently applied other than to appease shooter fans.

If the weapons in ME2 slowly cooled without the aid of thermal clips than it'd make more sense.

If there were a mix of self-efficient weapons(ME1) and ammo weapons(ME2) that may just fly as well.

As it stands it's just a needless retcon for sales.

It adds little  tactical challenge(could also be said about ME1) or fun(imo) to the game.

[didymos1120]

woods26 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

woods26 wrote...

A bread crumb trail of clips is equally annoying.

Yeah, that's hardly ever what the game does, actually. Usually, they're placed out in the open in a group, often with some power cells and other stuff nearby.  So, next gripe?

You like the system. I think it has issues, get over it.

You don't have to like it or think its perfect, but at least get the details right when you're talking about what you don't like about it.

[Praetor Knight]

trobbins777 wrote...

What if they made rechargable ammo? You use heat clips, for a specific weapon, until you run out then you have to wait for them to cool down before you can use them again. So we can have an ammo system, but not have to constantly pick up new clips.

The omnitool can also be used to replenish Thermal Clips during and after combat.


Possibly the simplest method would be after a fight, having an automatic process where each carried weapon is refilled (I'm not the first to think about this possibility).

Another way, we could have a new power that could do a limited refill during combat, and there are other ways that improvements can be made.

The possibilities are interesting to consider, and I look forward to ME3's improved combat .

[woods26]

didymos1120 wrote...

woods26 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

woods26 wrote...

A bread crumb trail of clips is equally annoying.

Yeah, that's hardly ever what the game does, actually. Usually, they're placed out in the open in a group, often with some power cells and other stuff nearby.  So, next gripe?

You like the system. I think it has issues, get over it.

You don't have to like it or think its perfect, but at least get the details right when you're talking about what you don't like about it.

HAHA. Yeah it's so hard to comprehend.

[Braag]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Braag wrote...

I still don't understand why some people hate thermal clips.

Speaking for myself I don't see the point of ammo as it is currently applied other than to appease shooter fans.

Really?

So I guess all those guns in Mass Effect are there to appease the shooter fans as well.

Modifié par Braag, 13 avril 2011 - 01:07 .

[didymos1120]

MassEffect762 wrote...


Speaking for myself I don't see the point of ammo as it is currently applied other than to appease shooter fans.

You keep imputing this "appease shooter fans" motive to the devs.  They did it because they thought it made it for better gameplay, period.  And it wasn't imposed from above or anything like that either:

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

Obviously, you don't think it was much of an improvement, but that doesn't mean the devs sat down at the very beginning and went "Ammo will increase our sales!  We shall now do that!" or whatever.