411 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Fixers0 wrote...

So they retconed lore continunity for gameplay balance? that sounds familiar.

You mean like when they invented *that very same lore* for the sake of non-shooter gameplay?

[Fixers0]

In Exile wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

So they retconed lore continunity for gameplay balance? that sounds familiar.

You mean like when they invented *that very same lore* for the sake of non-shooter gameplay?

Point?

The problem is not the Thermal clip system itself, it's the story behind, the only explantion from the Codex says that Thermal clips were invented for higher DPS because the Geth allready used them.
First of all the Geth rifles in ME1 did not used thermal clips, Second, if the issue is DPS then why did they also used thermal Clips for Sniper Rifle, How does DPS work on such a gun, with the old system the Sniper just needs to wait for the weapon to cool after 1-3 shots and basicly has unlimted ammo, with the new system he has a limited number of thermal clips before his guns overheat's peremantly.

I accutaly would't mind the Thermal clip system that much if the HUD would have proper display, It shows an ammo counter going down as you shoot, how does this equal overheating, the should used ME1 HUD Dispay and when the bar is full you should eject the heat sink, and the bar goes down if you run out of clips that the bar remains red until you find more thermal clips.  

[termokanden]

It's more player-friendly this way. Also if you reload without having spent the entire clip, you would realistically lose a few shots because you discarded a halfway used thermal clip. In the ME2 system, they allow us to cheat a bit for the sake of playability.

But showing an ammo count in itself is probably not unrealistic. It's likely that the weapon knows how many shots it takes to overheat it and therefore how many shots you get per thermal clip.

[ROD525]

I like thermal clips.Bioware are not going back to the old system,I suggest you suck it up and deal with it.

[Avissel]

Fixers0 wrote...

First of all the Geth rifles in ME1 did not used thermal clips

You do know time passes between the two games right? Two years, things changed.


The system is very easy to understand from a lore perspective.

Take and gun, and get two of them. Gun A and Gun B.
Gun A use ME1 interal Heat Sinks. Gun B uses ME2 Clips.

Gun A and B start fireing, since they are exactly the same they over heat after the same amout of shots.

Gun A must wait to cool down, Gun B gets a new Heat Sink from the clip and continues to fire.

Gameplay wise it doesn't work out perfectly but thats not really a big deal, every lore heavy game has issues with Lore not matching game play mechanics.

[Whereto]

I seriously don't get people on this, thermal clips were introduced to make you move and use a bloody different weapon(especially as soldier). Now if you want to stay behind one block of cover with your never ending supply of shots, be my guest. I personally prefer a system that makes me move from cover to cover and doesn't allow me to use one gun all the time.


Also I think the game explains the thermal clips well, sure it could of used a lot more back story etc, but over all the concept is easy to understand. You can fire more rounds down range in a smaller space of time than with the over heating system. Let's say you have 1 min to fire all the rounds you can down range and the over heating gun will need to cool down every 20 sec after continuous firing. If they both fired a round a second the thermal clip exchange would win by a long shot, especially considering you would only need to waste 3 seconds to change clips over. Oh and before you say you wouldn't fire till the gun got hot, there are times when you really need to get as many rounds as u can on the enemy. In this sort of situation you will probably need a lot of rounds to drop their shields and you can't always slow your firing down to allow your gun to cool, as they might not


Sorry for the poor spelling and gramma, if there is any. It's impossible to check with iPods.

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

Bioware needs to implement a system that combines both.

They did.  They didn't like it, and neither did most playtesters.  If you're on PC, you can enable it if you want.  Otherwise, you just have to live with their decision, which they're almost certainly sticking to.

+1

M8DMAN wrote...
Still doesn't mean they should abandon the idea.

Considering that most people LOVE Thermal Clips idea, I guess they will.

[MrDizazta]

I am all for Thermal Clips. Mostly because it make sense.

[Fixers0]

Avissel wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

First of all the Geth rifles in ME1 did not used thermal clips

You do know time passes between the two games right? Two years, things changed.


The system is very easy to understand from a lore perspective.

Take and gun, and get two of them. Gun A and Gun B.
Gun A use ME1 interal Heat Sinks. Gun B uses ME2 Clips.

Gun A and B start fireing, since they are exactly the same they over heat after the same amout of shots.

Gun A must wait to cool down, Gun B gets a new Heat Sink from the clip and continues to fire.

Gameplay wise it doesn't work out perfectly but thats not really a big deal, every lore heavy game has issues with Lore not matching game play mechanics.

No because they (thermal clips) do the exact opposite of the Codex says them to do: Make guns more effective in battle.

Retcon:wizard:

Again i would't mind if they just give me a proper HUD display, that shows the weapons building up heat not depleting 'Ammo'.

[CroGamer002]

^Thermal clips ARE more effective then cooldown system.

[Whereto]

OMG it's not a retcon, a retcon is were something that was previously established by lore is just flipped on it's head and as in generally the case never explained why. Lore not equalling up with gameplay is not a retcon, it is a gameplay over lore thing. All games do this to some degree, because sometimes the lore just isn't fun or doesn't work.

So stop calling it a retcon as it hasn't gone against previously established lore

[Avissel]

Fixers0 wrote...

No because they (thermal clips) do the exact opposite of the Codex says them to do: Make guns more effective in battle.

No, thats the difference in gameplay caused by going from a broken system to a balanced one.

I'm sorry you can't understand that.

[Fixers0]

Avissel wrote...

No, thats the difference in gameplay caused by going from a broken system to a balanced one.

I'm sorry you can't understand that.

I don't care if the old system is broken or not, How is a  Mass Effect 1 assault rifle with the Rigth Mods and a skilled player going to be less Effective then Any Mass effect 2 Assault Rife, www.youtube.com/watch.

You also don't seem to understand my point, the system is fine and balanced, just the whole idea behind it,
Guns in Mass Effect 1 were unique because they were building up ammo, the way Mass Effect 2 shows it, makes it look like you're depleting 'thermal ammo'. 

[Avissel]

Fixers0 wrote...
I don't care if the old system is broken or not, How is a  Mass Effect 1 assault rifle with the Rigth Mods and a skilled player going to be less Effective then Any Mass effect 2 Assault Rife, www.youtube.com/watch.

You also don't seem to understand my point, the system is fine and balanced, just the whole idea behind it,
Guns in Mass Effect 1 were unique because they were building up ammo, the way Mass Effect 2 shows it, makes it look like you're depleting 'thermal ammo'. 

Again. You are argueing a difference in gameplay. Yes, Guns worked "better" in ME1 gameplay. The worked "better" because the system was very easy to cheat and create a gun that fired forever.


While the ME1 system was surely unique, it was also not very good from a shooter perspective. There was no challange to it. The system was broken.

[Legbiter]

Keep the thermal clips. Combat in ME 1 was pure cheese without them.

[Praetor Knight]

Fixers0 wrote...

The problem is not the Thermal clip system itself, it's the story behind, the only explantion from the Codex says that Thermal clips were invented for higher DPS because the Geth allready used them.
First of all the Geth rifles in ME1 did not used thermal clips, Second, if the issue is DPS then why did they also used thermal Clips for Sniper Rifle, How does DPS work on such a gun, with the old system the Sniper just needs to wait for the weapon to cool after 1-3 shots and basicly has unlimted ammo, with the new system he has a limited number of thermal clips before his guns overheat's peremantly.

Just wanted to add that I've assumed that the Geth used a Thermal Clip system after continued fighting with Shepard, and implemented them after the Battle of the Citadel.

So the tech would not have been available during ME1, since that fighting was the combat logs that the Geth reviewed to develop the tech.

And since we know older weapons like the Mattock and the Locust were easily retrofitted with the new tech, the actual physical change in the weapons should be similar to swapping out one mechanism on the weapons.

I've figured the modification to be similar to how you can have a rifle fire semi auto, and then be able to fire full auto with only slight modifications made inside of the reciever.

I accutaly would't mind the Thermal clip system that much if the HUD would have proper display, It shows an ammo counter going down as you shoot, how does this equal overheating, the should used ME1 HUD Dispay and when the bar is full you should eject the heat sink, and the bar goes down if you run out of clips that the bar remains red until you find more thermal clips.  

I agree that a different display in the HUD would have worked better for ME2.

[Thezezeal]

Personally, I'm slightly-against thremal-clips.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but I have read a few pages, and from what I understand, my preference has been expressed: that a hybrid system should be used. Like others have said, Heat Sinks work just like Ammo-- not a big deal in itself, but given the lack of a natural cool-down, it does make it seem like something of a step back (i.e., from quick-cooldown weapons in ME1, to will-never-cool-without-a-heat-sink in ME2).

Overall, I'm not TOO bothered, one way or the other, but I think a hybrid option would be good in the menus for those who want it (rather than the edits required for ME2).

[Raphael diSanto]

Avissel wrote...

Again. You are argueing a difference in gameplay. Yes, Guns worked "better" in ME1 gameplay. The worked "better" because the system was very easy to cheat and create a gun that fired forever.

Why is this a problem?

Avissel wrote...
While the ME1 system was surely unique, it was also not very good from a shooter perspective. There was no challange to it.

Again, why is this a problem?

[Avissel]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Why is this a problem?

I really shouldn't have to explain how a broken combat system is a problem.


It's the same reason people don't like fighting games you can win by spamming one move.

Modifié par Avissel, 18 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[Raphael diSanto]

Avissel wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Why is this a problem?

I really shouldn't have to explain how a broken combat system is a problem.


It's the same reason people don't like fighting games you can win by spamming one move.

in competitive play, sure. But in a single person game where the only thing you're shooting is the AI? Who cares?

[Avissel]

Those of us who want a challenge and rewarding combat care.

I'm sure if you wait and get the pc version you can just mod in infinite ammo and god mode.

[dolphin1329]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Why is this a problem?

I really shouldn't have to explain how a broken combat system is a problem.


It's the same reason people don't like fighting games you can win by spamming one move.

in competitive play, sure. But in a single person game where the only thing you're shooting is the AI? Who cares?

Its not fun?

[CroGamer002]

dolphin1329 wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Why is this a problem?

I really shouldn't have to explain how a broken combat system is a problem.


It's the same reason people don't like fighting games you can win by spamming one move.

in competitive play, sure. But in a single person game where the only thing you're shooting is the AI? Who cares?

Its not fun?

That.

[ExtremeOne]

I know this Op they better keep the clips in the game because the ME 1 ammo system was bullsh*t

[ExtremeOne]

Thezezeal wrote...

Personally, I'm slightly-against thremal-clips.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but I have read a few pages, and from what I understand, my preference has been expressed: that a hybrid system should be used. Like others have said, Heat Sinks work just like Ammo-- not a big deal in itself, but given the lack of a natural cool-down, it does make it seem like something of a step back (i.e., from quick-cooldown weapons in ME1, to will-never-cool-without-a-heat-sink in ME2).

Overall, I'm not TOO bothered, one way or the other, but I think a hybrid option would be good in the menus for those who want it (rather than the edits required for ME2).

  



If they put that option in the game then I want a option to where My Shepard cam chose who he wants to work for in the 3rd game