211 réponses à ce sujet

[sheppard7]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

With DA, Bioware has shown that death means nothing and the person can easily return. So Kaidan and Ashley can be in ME3. Reuniting the original 3 squad.

Besides someone else escaped the nuke blast as we saw in ME2, so it's possible the one left behind actually made it out too.

Uh... what? Someone else escaped? If you mean Rana, that was before the bomb was even deployed, let alone active. I'd like for both Kaidan and Ash to have survived, but the area the nuke destroyed would've killed one of them, and everyone still in the vicinity. Either of them got vaporized, no way around it.

True but Bioware has crapped on the idea that people who die, stay dead without giving explanation for the revival. So now they did that, there's a possibility of both returning in ME3.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Pscyon wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Uh... what? Someone else escaped? If you mean Rana, that was before the bomb was even deployed, let alone active. I'd like for both Kaidan and Ash to have survived, but the area the nuke destroyed would've killed one of them, and everyone still in the vicinity. Either of them got vaporized, no way around it.

Think he's referring to how Bioware will literally just zap them in from thin air regardless of how they actually died and how (un)likely their return would be without offering any reasonable explanation if they should wish to do so.

They'd do that? I sure hope not-- Bioware seems like it puts too much effort into story consistency to do that sort of thing... at least not without a reason that you could think over and go "Yeah, I can see how that'd make sense".

[ThatDancingTurian]

It was an easy choice for me. Ashley was my favorite female character in the first game and Kaidan my least favorite character in the whole series.

[Chaos-fusion]

I picked whoever I had used the most for that playthrough.

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Pscyon wrote...

Think he's referring to how Bioware will literally just zap them in from thin air regardless of how they actually died and how (un)likely their return would be without offering any reasonable explanation if they should wish to do so.

They'd do that? I sure hope not-- Bioware seems like it puts too much effort into story consistency to do that sort of thing... at least not without a reason that you could think over and go "Yeah, I can see how that'd make sense".

They have done it in DA2. I know that was already mentioned, but still.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 12 avril 2011 - 09:25 .

[sheppard7]

TeenZombie wrote...

There's a mostly thoughtful thread on the subject here: http://social.biowar...4/index/4767131

Also, obligatory:

Funny. First playthrough I killed Ashley because she killed Wrex even when I didn't tell her to. I figured if she's get gun crazy and shoot Wrex without warning I couldn't trust her at my back as much as Kaidan.

I have playthroughs she survived instead and created ones using Gibbed's with each surviving.

[Rekkampum]

polynomials wrote...

With all the recent buzz about ME3, I've recently downloaded the old ME on Steam, and am playing through it again. Also, my Xbox RROD'd me. I'm playing through it as a Ruthless Colonist Renegade FemShep, which in my opinion is the only way to do it. But I am enjoying the opportunity to mull over some of the decisions I made. The most interesting one, I always thought, was the one to save Ashley/Kaidan.

When it came time to choose her or Kaidan, I chose her for two reasons. 1) I have found that the Shepard I always play actually makes more sense to me if she starts out a little bit racist (especially with Batarians killing off her whole family on Mindoir), but then as she progresses, she starts to release her prejudices.  My Shepard sees a lot of her younger self in Ashley- young, skilled, all full of ****** and vinegar, ready to fight for humanity, thinking humanity is on their own, but immature, in need of guidance. 2) Because of that immaturity, he had just killed Wrex due to at least some racism, and I did not trust her to guard the bomb, which was the most important part of the mission.

It will be interesting to see if any of my internal thoughts about their relationship will get to be developed because I kind of saved her thinking of her as a daughter, in a loving way, but also in a scolding way. Like, I think of someone I need to protect, but at the same time protecting her/cleaning up her mess cost the lives of two people under my command, and two of my friends. So in ME2 when you meet up with her again, there is the Cerberus issue, but there is also that tension and resentment underlying it.

What are you guys' thoughts on why you chose who you did, and where you think it will go in ME3?

I chose them... because. You know. Because.

[AdmiralCheez]

I do it based on my class so I can keep team balance. Infiltrators and vanguards save Kaidan; engineers and adepts save Ashley. Soldiers and sentinels get a coin flip. Only exception to that so far is one of my vanguards, who romanced Ashley, so there was a conflict of interest there.

[Urdnot Orrad]

sheppard7 wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

With DA, Bioware has shown that death means nothing and the person can easily return. So Kaidan and Ashley can be in ME3. Reuniting the original 3 squad.

Besides someone else escaped the nuke blast as we saw in ME2, so it's possible the one left behind actually made it out too.

Uh... what? Someone else escaped? If you mean Rana, that was before the bomb was even deployed, let alone active. I'd like for both Kaidan and Ash to have survived, but the area the nuke destroyed would've killed one of them, and everyone still in the vicinity. Either of them got vaporized, no way around it.

True but Bioware has crapped on the idea that people who die, stay dead without giving explanation for the revival. So now they did that, there's a possibility of both returning in ME3.

Err... if I recall, Dragon Age has fantasy and magic elements, so yeah. ME's approach to bringing people back was more realistic, seeing as how to bring back Shepard took two entire in-game years to do so, and billions of credits on incredibly advanced machinery to make it happen. And that was because Cerberus needed Shepard. The Systems Alliance or even Cerberus would not do something similar for Kaidan or Ashley, whoever died, both because A) it's astronomically expensive and Ash and Kaidan were not nearly as charismatic and effective as Shepard was at leading. Oh, and also, if they did bring someone back, why would it be either of them? Why not bring back a recently-deceased general (like Jon Grissom) or someone equally more important than two Marines?

Modifié par Urdnot Orrad, 12 avril 2011 - 09:30 .

[gosimmons]

I saved Ashley. I think she develops pretty well as a character, despite all the bashing she gets (half the time for a bad reason like for her being religious >>)
Not to say I didn't like Kaiden. He's a good guy, but had a little less intriguing things to say in my opinion. I had left him to guard the bomb too and thought he got the most dramatic death in the series that way.

Modifié par gosimmons, 12 avril 2011 - 09:50 .

[JG The Gamer]

I refuse to let what I think of Ashley/Kaidan's personalities affect my decision making. I think letting someone die because you don't like them is a clear example of whether one should be a leader or not rather than choosing from a tactical standpoint. For me I go with tactics and what is at stake. For starters I send Ashley with the salarians because they need someone with firepower and Ashley has just that. Kaidan I take with me because he's closer to a tech expert than Ashley is. When decision time rolls around, I have to decide whether to get the hell out of there (rescue Ashley) or to go back and make sure the mission succeeds (rescue Kaidan). Sometimes I choose Ashley, sometimes I choose Kaidan. Twice I was on the verge of romancing Ashley, and logic won out over emotion. Though there were times where emotion trumped logic. All my Shepards hate having to make that call though regardless of what they or I think of Ashley/Kaidan.

Modifié par JG The Gamer, 12 avril 2011 - 09:34 .

[MajesticJazz]

For my Female Shepard I saved Ashley because my female Shepard is a strong-minded female and Ashley was very strong minded as well so they got along in that regard. Besides, Nubia Shepard was an Inflitrator who needed a strong Biotic and Solider in her squad as she was mainly the tech specialist. With that being said, Liara served as the Biotic (whom she also romanced) and Ashley served as the Solider.

For my male Shepard, well he saved Ashley because he romanced her. He picked her over Liara because Ashley is more of a "woman" and more strong minded and played well with my uber renegade male Shepard.

So long story short, I chose Ashley both times because she is a very strong minded female who you do not see much of in videogames these days as they are very sexualized in many cliche ways like Tali, Miranda, and even Liara.

[Pscyon]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Err... if I recall, Dragon Age has fantasy and magic elements, so yeah.
....
Why not bring back a recently-deceased general (like Jon Grissom) or someone equally more important than two Marines?

While the DA universe certainly has magic, it does surprisingly not have resurrection magic, unlike most High Fantasy games/settings. They didn't even attempt to excuse it in any way, the characters are just back like nothing ever happened and noone mentions it. Not that it bothers me though since I never let those chars die in the first place, but it's still a legit complaint for those who did see those characters die.

.... who is Joe Grissom? Can't recall ever seeing that name:blink:. Remember Kahoku though.

Modifié par Pscyon, 12 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[Urdnot Orrad]

gosimmons wrote...

I saved Ashley, I think she develops pretty well as a character, despite all the bashing she gets.
Not to say I didn't like Kaiden. He's a good guy, but had a little less intriguing things to say. I had left him to guard the bomb too. He gets one of the most dramatic deaths in the series that way.

Why exactly does Ashley get so much flak? I always liked her, myself (likely because my sister is named "Ashley", my legal first name is "William", and I come from a military family).

"She's racist!" No, she's not, she simply has prejudices against non-humans because of what the military did to her family due to a pragmatic decision by her grandfather to surrender Shanxi to the turians because the people he was protecting were starving.

"She's bland!" No, she actually goes through extensive character development if you actually talk to her often. Kaidan not so much, unless you gradually give him a more Renegade outlook.

What else?

[Urdnot Orrad]

Pscyon wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Err... if I recall, Dragon Age has fantasy and magic elements, so yeah.
....
Why not bring back a recently-deceased general (like Jon Grissom) or someone equally more important than two Marines?

While the DA universe certainly has magic, it does surprisingly not have resurrection magic, unlike most High Fantasy games/settings. They didn't even attempt to excuse it in any way, the characters are just back like nothing ever happened and noone mentions it. Not that it bothers me though since I never let those chars die in the first place, but it's still a legit complaint for those who did see those characters die.

.... who is Joe Grissom? Can't recall ever seeing that name:blink:. Remember Kahoku though.

JON Grissom. He's a character in the ME novels.

[ErebUs890]

IDK, it's all just random for me. If I romance Ash, then I just let Kaiden die. Or I might just want to see how Kaiden develops as a character in ME3, so I'll let him live.

[gosimmons]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Why exactly does Ashley get so much flak? I always liked her, myself (likely because my sister is named "Ashley", my legal first name is "William", and I come from a military family).

"She's racist!" No, she's not, she simply has prejudices against non-humans because of what the military did to her family due to a pragmatic decision by her grandfather to surrender Shanxi to the turians because the people he was protecting were starving.

"She's bland!" No, she actually goes through extensive character development if you actually talk to her often. Kaidan not so much, unless you gradually give him a more Renegade outlook.

What else?

I agree, I think a lot of people act a bit unfair about her character. Even if she was untrusting of aliens she never let that get in the way of working with them. (she willingly dies for the Salarian squad if you leave her) And as far as rascists go we've seen a lot worse. Then I've seen others complain that she's religious. Even if you're not I think it's ignorant to hate someone because they believe in God.

It's funny, I t didn't really think her bland. Maybe some people were just mad she wears actual armor rather than belt straps and a catsuit?  >> 

Modifié par gosimmons, 12 avril 2011 - 09:49 .

[Notanything]

gosimmons wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Why exactly does Ashley get so much flak? I always liked her, myself (likely because my sister is named "Ashley", my legal first name is "William", and I come from a military family).

"She's racist!" No, she's not, she simply has prejudices against non-humans because of what the military did to her family due to a pragmatic decision by her grandfather to surrender Shanxi to the turians because the people he was protecting were starving.

"She's bland!" No, she actually goes through extensive character development if you actually talk to her often. Kaidan not so much, unless you gradually give him a more Renegade outlook.

What else?

I agree, I think a lot of people act a bit unfair about her character. Even if she was untrusting of aliens she never let that get in the way of working with them. (she willingly dies for the Salarian squad if you leave her) And as far as rascists go we've seen a lot worse. Then I've seen others complain that she's religious. Even if you're not I think it's ignorant to hate someone because they believe in God.

It's funny, I t didn't really think her bland. Maybe some people were just mad she wears actual armor rather than belt straps and a catsuit?  >> 

It seems to me the majority hates Kaidan rather than Ashley, I wouldn't consider her getting complaints would be regarded as the majority enough to be the victim of most hate.

[matteatspuppies]

it was awkward after i choose liara over ash so i killed her to clear the air.

kaiden is a higher rank so i felt he would have more pull

dont care for her anti alien talk so i killed her for having her own opinion. women shouldnt have that.

i did like her story though and was tempted to let her live cause she has a close family and i wanted to let her work out her familys stigma. if shes done a little better in 3 ill go back and let her live

[spacehamsterZH]

I chose Kaidan in two of my three ME1 playthroughs because I found him more useful in combat. Simple as that. He's got more biotics to play with, and in ME1 that makes a huge difference because there's no universal cooldown.

That said, though, I don't particularly like hyper-militaristic, right-wing, religious, racist nutbags in real life, so, you know. It was kind of a happy coincidence.

[Urdnot Orrad]

gosimmons wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
Why exactly does Ashley get so much flak? I always liked her, myself (likely because my sister is named "Ashley", my legal first name is "William", and I come from a military family).

"She's racist!" No, she's not, she simply has prejudices against non-humans because of what the military did to her family due to a pragmatic decision by her grandfather to surrender Shanxi to the turians because the people he was protecting were starving.

"She's bland!" No, she actually goes through extensive character development if you actually talk to her often. Kaidan not so much, unless you gradually give him a more Renegade outlook.

What else?

I agree, I think a lot of people act a bit unfair about her character. Even if she was untrusting of aliens she never let that get in the way of working with them. (she willingly dies for the Salarian squad if you leave her) And as far as rascists go we've seen a lot worse. Then I've seen others complain that she's religious. Even if you're not I think it's ignorant to hate someone because they believe in God.

It's funny, I t didn't really think her bland. Maybe some people were just mad she wears actual armor rather than belt straps and a catsuit?  >> 

... I'd have loved to have seen her in that "tin-foil miniskirt and thigh-high boots" getup, myself... 

<.<
>.>

[Notanything]

matteatspuppies wrote...

it was awkward after i choose liara over ash so i killed her to clear the air.

kaiden is a higher rank so i felt he would have more pull

dont care for her anti alien talk so i killed her for having her own opinion. women shouldnt have that.

i did like her story though and was tempted to let her live cause she has a close family and i wanted to let her work out her familys stigma. if shes done a little better in 3 ill go back and let her live

Ahahahaha.

[Pwener2313]

[quote]Notanything wrote...

so i killed her for having her own opinion[/quote]

[/quote]

Wow, he'd make a great dictator.........

Modifié par Pwener2313, 12 avril 2011 - 09:57 .

[charmingcharlie]

Hm why did I save Ashley over Kaiden ..... all I can think to say is :-

I like big butts and I can not lie

You other brothers can't deny

That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist

And a round thing in your face

etc etc 

Seriously though I just couldn't stand Kaiden, I mean sure Ashley isn't exactly personality of the year but my god Kaiden took it to new levels of urghhhhh.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Notanything wrote...

matteatspuppies wrote...

it was awkward after i choose liara over ash so i killed her to clear the air.

kaiden is a higher rank so i felt he would have more pull

dont care for her anti alien talk so i killed her for having her own opinion. women shouldnt have that.

i did like her story though and was tempted to let her live cause she has a close family and i wanted to let her work out her familys stigma. if shes done a little better in 3 ill go back and let her live

Ahahahaha.

I agree. I literally lol'd. I don't do that much when reading forums.