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#51
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Kahlee sure has her blond moments.

"Durrrr, what are the Reapers?"


Oh the irony.

Kahlee was never told what the Reapers were until Anderson told her in Retribution. Prior to that she had heard the term, once, when asked by the quarians about them.

#52
MajesticJazz

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

While I'd have no desire to pursue a relationship, Shepard having a young women on the crew, barely considered an adult and not a child, possibly infatuated with a charming commander who would, of course, have no interest in responding to any such interest...

Oh, wait.


Lol, exactly.....




Naltair wrote...

It's not accurate it's just bashing, people are attracted to what they are attracted to.



I am not saying that EVERYONE who are hardcore Tali fans fall into this category, but a great majority of them do. I created a thread about this a long time ago.

Is Tali/Liara popular female LIs because they appeal the the nerdy/geeky/socialy awkward male?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Topic:

Like I said before, I am excited for a new novel but I am set back that it will ONCE AGAIN feature Kahlee Sanders as the lead character. She is stubborn which I find very annoying. It would be okay if she was a side character that has some minor connection to the plot, but it isn't like that. Instead, her story is covered more than anyone else's in the novels. The others would be Anderson and Grayson and they are no where close as to the amount of attention that Kahlee gets.

Most of the problems in the novel happen because of her inability to listen and see things that ISNT from her own point of view. Look at Retribution for example. a lot of crap could have been avoided if she would have just listened and not try to turn Grayson back. But noooooooooo, the Mary Sue had to continue on with her own illogical and irrational events of plot irritation. Then there is the situation win Acension which she didn't want to admit fault with Jiro and we all saw how that turned out. Hendel Mitra tried to warn Kahlee about Jiro and told her to be carefull around him and what she reveals to him, but because she is a stubborn Mary Sue, she denies help and moves on to destroy the plot. 

In terms of character detail/background, she is too perfect and too convienent:

- She is the Alliance's top expert and synthetic intelligence.
- She is the Alliance's top systems and computer technician
- She just happens to have a VERY RARE trait in being naturally blonde
- She just happens to be the daughter of a very important character, Jon Grissom
- She just happens to be part of every major plot event without actually discovering anything (Shepard discovers things in ME1 and ME2)


Then there is here annoying ability to play the role of the Damsel in Distress like she did in Revelation and Retribution.
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I can keep going but you get the idea about Kahlee Sanders. So in this new novel, Deception, I can expect Kahlee to get captured because she was too dumb to listen to advice so Anderson must save her again. She will be warned to not do something but she would ignore the warning which would later cause greater trouble for OTHER people besides herself like in Acension and Retribution. She would discover something without actually doing any discovery.....vital information would just "accidently" fall into her lap and she would be given the credit for finding it.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 15 avril 2011 - 02:56 .


#53
jbblue05

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Gillian looks like a 15 year old Miranda. and I don't think Gillian is the revenge type like Jack.

Pedo-Shepard should be allowed to pursue a romance with Gillian, At the climax space Chris Hansen asks Shepard kindly "Have a Seat?"  followed by game over as Shepard is arrested by C-sec

Hopefully Kai Leng gets revenge on Anderson

Modifié par jbblue05, 15 avril 2011 - 02:47 .


#54
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When Gillian gets a little older she'll realize that what her father did was wrong and that what Cerberus does is for the greater good.

#55
Zulu_DFA

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Saphra Deden wrote...

When Gillian gets a little older she'll realize that what her father did was wrong and that what Cerberus does is for the greater good.


IF she gets older.

#56
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It's tragedy. Can you imagine what tripe the quarians must have been filling her head with for the last three years? Hopefully TIM finds a clever way to make her useful though, like he did with Jack.

#57
didymos1120

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Oh the irony.

Kahlee was never told what the Reapers were until Anderson told her in Retribution. Prior to that she had heard the term, once, when asked by the quarians about them.


Wrong. The quarians did tell her what the Reapers were in Ascension: "There is word coming from the Citadel that Saren's flagship, Sovereign, was actually an advanced AI. It was alive; just one of an entire race of enormous, sentient ships called the Reapers."  And she's also perfectly aware that this may have been the artifact Dr. Qian was studying in Revelation.

Then in Retribution we get:

"Unfamiliar with the name, Kahlee asked 'Who are the Reapers?'"

and when Anderson explains:

"I've never heard anything remotely like that in my life."

Then, just for icing, she's rather resistant to the notion that they're connected to Qian's research or the attack on the Citadel, despite having considered both ideas in Ascension.

Irony indeed.

#58
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didymos1120 wrote...

Wrong. The quarians did tell her what the Reapers were in Ascension: "There is word coming from the Citadel that Saren's flagship, Sovereign, was actually an advanced AI. It was alive; just one of an entire race of enormous, sentient ships called the Reapers."  And she's also perfectly aware that this may have been the artifact Dr. Qian was studying in Revelation.


Oh, well, you see, I knew that. My post being the ironic one was a clever twist I had planned from the start.

#59
Quole

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Oh look ANOTHER DAMN BOOK ABOUT CERBERUS. ENOUGH WITH CERBERUS.

EDIT: AND ITS BY WILLIAM DIETZ?!!? THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER. ****

Modifié par Quole, 15 avril 2011 - 03:31 .


#60
Quole

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MajesticJazz wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

While I'd have no desire to pursue a relationship, Shepard having a young women on the crew, barely considered an adult and not a child, possibly infatuated with a charming commander who would, of course, have no interest in responding to any such interest...

Oh, wait.


Lol, exactly.....




Naltair wrote...

It's not accurate it's just bashing, people are attracted to what they are attracted to.



I am not saying that EVERYONE who are hardcore Tali fans fall into this category, but a great majority of them do. I created a thread about this a long time ago.

Is Tali/Liara popular female LIs because they appeal the the nerdy/geeky/socialy awkward male?


God I hate people like you. Because you dont like Tali, you have to make a rediculous theory on why others might? Only Older people are drawn to Miranda/Ashley, where as only younger people are drawn to Tali? HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT ON? IF ANYTHING, MIRANDA, THE SUPERMODEL WITH THE EXAGGERATED CAMERA ANGLES DRAWS MORE YOUNGER PLAYERS.

Nice subtle attempt at trolling though.

People can be so stupid

Modifié par Quole, 15 avril 2011 - 03:53 .


#61
Arijharn

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Majestic, it might change a bit because Drew isn't writing it (unless he's ghost writing himself? o.0)

#62
Tesla17

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Arijharn wrote...

Majestic, it might change a bit because Drew isn't writing it (unless he's ghost writing himself? o.0)


No, Dietz is an actual dude unfortuantely. He's grown quite infamous for writing the worst in the rather good series of Halo novels (The Flood) and I think he wrote the Metal Gear Novels. One has to hope he's actually grown competent in the interum.

#63
Zulu_DFA

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didymos1120 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Oh the irony.

Kahlee was never told what the Reapers were until Anderson told her in Retribution. Prior to that she had heard the term, once, when asked by the quarians about them.


Wrong. The quarians did tell her what the Reapers were in Ascension: "There is word coming from the Citadel that Saren's flagship, Sovereign, was actually an advanced AI. It was alive; just one of an entire race of enormous, sentient ships called the Reapers."  And she's also perfectly aware that this may have been the artifact Dr. Qian was studying in Revelation.

Then in Retribution we get:

"Unfamiliar with the name, Kahlee asked 'Who are the Reapers?'"

and when Anderson explains:

"I've never heard anything remotely like that in my life."

Then, just for icing, she's rather resistant to the notion that they're connected to Qian's research or the attack on the Citadel, despite having considered both ideas in Ascension.

Irony indeed.

She is indoctrinated. Since Revelation.

Anderson's too. Since Vigil's "datafile" was uploaded to the Citadel's mainframe.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 avril 2011 - 04:02 .


#64
MajesticJazz

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Arijharn wrote...

Majestic, it might change a bit because Drew isn't writing it (unless he's ghost writing himself? o.0)


Thats what I'm hoping for. I hope that because it is a new author, he might take a different approach to Kahlee unlike Drew who made Kahlee out to be this pure focal point of the books.

Hopefully the plot would actually center around the plot and not around Kahlee like it has done in the past 3 novels.

#65
Zulu_DFA

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Tesla17 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Majestic, it might change a bit because Drew isn't writing it (unless he's ghost writing himself? o.0)


No, Dietz is an actual dude unfortuantely. He's grown quite infamous for writing the worst in the rather good series of Halo novels (The Flood) and I think he wrote the Metal Gear Novels. One has to hope he's actually grown competent in the interum.

He can put words together nicely. Everything else is up to BioWare - how well they coach him about the lore and such. Knowing BioWare's "diligince" about their own lore, I'm not holding my breath.

#66
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Kahlee is so exaggerated on the forums. The first novel dealt quite a lot with Anderson and Saren. The second one was equal parts Grayson and Kahlee. The third one was equal parts Kahlee, Anderson, TIM, and Grayson/Reapers. I don't know why people complain so much.

#67
JeffZero

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I've only read the first novel and Kahlee came off as something of a Mary Sue to me. This has been the primary reason for my not going after the second and third novels. Eventually I will, but that bugged me. Something about Karpyshyn's writing of the character really rubbed me the wrong way.

#68
MajesticJazz

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Kahlee is so exaggerated on the forums. The first novel dealt quite a lot with Anderson and Saren. The second one was equal parts Grayson and Kahlee. The third one was equal parts Kahlee, Anderson, TIM, and Grayson/Reapers. I don't know why people complain so much.



Here is your answer:

Most of the problems in the novel happen because of her inability to listen and see things that ISNT from her own point of view. Look at Retribution for example. a lot of crap could have been avoided if she would have just listened and not try to turn Grayson back. But noooooooooo, the Mary Sue had to continue on with her own illogical and irrational events of plot irritation. Then there is the situation win Acension which she didn't want to admit fault with Jiro and we all saw how that turned out. Hendel Mitra tried to warn Kahlee about Jiro and told her to be carefull around him and what she reveals to him, but because she is a stubborn Mary Sue, she denies help and moves on to destroy the plot. 

In terms of character detail/background, she is too perfect and too convienent:

- She is the Alliance's top expert and synthetic intelligence.
- She is the Alliance's top systems and computer technician
- She just happens to have a VERY RARE trait in being naturally blonde
- She just happens to be the daughter of a very important character, Jon Grissom
- She just happens to be part of every major plot event without actually discovering anything (Shepard discovers things in ME1 and ME2)


Then there is here annoying ability to play the role of the Damsel in Distress like she did in Revelation and Retribution.



I believe this describes Kahlee Sanders 100%:

Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".


Modifié par MajesticJazz, 15 avril 2011 - 04:17 .


#69
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Bull-honky. The events of Retribution were driven as much by Anderson and TIM as they were by Kahlee. She never forced Anderson to do what he did.

#70
MajesticJazz

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Bull-honky. The events of Retribution were driven as much by Anderson and TIM as they were by Kahlee. She never forced Anderson to do what he did.


Well first off it was her who called Anderson to help her out.....

Again, Kahlee caused a whole bunch of mess in Retribution because she wouldn't listen. So was so hell bent on the idea that she can "reason" with Grayson to the point where it ended up getting people killed. Because of her actions (And her actions in Acension regarding Jiro and not listending to warnings about him) she often gets people killed. I find it funny that she causes problems on everyone else but for herself, she never really loses anything.

Again.....

Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".



#71
jimmyjoefro

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Wouldn't a noteworthy flaw be suspect decision making by letting her emotions trump reason?

She has naturally blonde hair...who cares? She's a genius, so it's not unrealistic that she would have more than one talent. Or are main characters not allowed to be geniuses, now? How would some commoner get involved with this type of thing? It would HAVE to be someone that is likely to get involved, like a scientist.

#72
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I would say Kahlee has plenty of flaws, her primary one being that she's vindictive ****.

Shepard stumbles into plot as well, by the way.

#73
Arijharn

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We can expect Shephard to be a bit of a mary sue character because we're playing a heroic character. Sure, I'd expect to see him suffer some hard knocks, but you know... he's potentially going to have the blood of billions on his hands if he makes decisions that will exterminate species...

#74
didymos1120

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MajesticJazz wrote...

Again, Kahlee caused a whole bunch of mess in Retribution because she wouldn't listen.


Well, that wasn't very Mary Sue-ish of her. 

#75
Nathan Redgrave

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I was wondering if they'd bring Gillian back. I'm looking forward to this one, although the switch in authors has me apprehensive--Drew's been writing these characters for a while, so handing them off to someone else risks a change in portrayal that may be a bit jarring.