133 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

jimmyjoefro wrote...

Yeah, I don't know why the idea that blondes and redheads will disappear seems to stick around. Recessive genes aren't going to disappear, at least not for a VERY long time.

In fact, it won't disappear at all. It will only stabilize at a lower level. It works like this:

Suppose 50% of a population (let's call it  is carrying a recessive "blond gene". Then, given random mating, 25% of that population will have blond hair. Now let B make contact with a second, very large population nine times the size of B, only with a zero prevalence of that gene (let's call it X) and leave them to interbreed for a few centuries. Since the total X+B is ten times the size of B and there are no new people carrying the blonde gene, there are now 5% of the total population carrying the blonde gene. Assuming random mating again, the prevalence of blonde hair will stabilize around 0.05x0.05 = 0.25%. Which appears low, but in a population of 10 billion that would still be 25 million people with blond hair. And the percentage wouldn't go lower unless selected against.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

dreman9999 wrote...

That what I am saying, which is why I ignored this statement. Kahleen Sanders  just  suffers from a damsel in destress disorder.

Which is hardly a problem when it's balanced out with some decent fighting spirit. "Strong" doesn't have to mean "invincible" or even "stronger than the bad guys the novel's about." I've seen badly-written damsels in distress en masse--it comes with the territory when you're exposed to so much videogame writing. Kahlee barely even registers as a blip on my radar.

People who think Mass Effect is running short of strong females, however, aren't paying much attention. It's possible the relatively "normal" Kahlee Sanders just stands out as more human to some people, though, when you compare her to the likes of Miranda, Kasumi, Liara, Tali, and Samara. (I maintain that Ashley Williams is the most ordinary of the bunch, but in a good way--she's just a soldier who happens to be a woman, and none of her character development would really be any different if you swapped her gender around.)

Sometimes a person who's just a person makes for a more endearing character to some people, as it makes them relatable. Strength within the bounds of what a player/reader expects of a normal person tends to be easier to appreciate--hence despite her D.I.D.D., Kahlee comes off as a strong character anyway.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 15 avril 2011 - 07:48 .

[jimmyjoefro]

Elite Midget wrote...

jimmyjoefro wrote...

She's not human. Maybe that's typical Quarian behavior when experiencing attraction and/or love? It's sort of silly to project human characteristics onto alien characters.

Than why are you compareing her age of 25 in human terms than after telling me I shouldn't? For all we know 25 could be 'I'm not really legal yet' in Quarian Terms. After all she was a virgin before Shepard decided to exploit her childish crushon a Hero she respected and admired..

I never compared her age in human terms.

25 may be immature by Quarian standards, but most likely not as they are sent on their pilgrimage to achieve full adult status within their culture.

Why so quick to play the "hero taking advantage of an infatuation" card?  It's impossible that Shepard might like someone who's only around 5 years younger than he is?  You ever think that may maybe she's shy? Or that the envirosuits make it much more difficult for Quarians to partake in secret sexual behavior?  There are many different angles to consider, and it is definitely not as simple as Shepard taking advantage of an infatuation.  Hell, he doesn't even know what she looks.

Modifié par jimmyjoefro, 15 avril 2011 - 07:53 .

[didymos1120]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 And the percentage wouldn't go lower unless selected against.

You're neglecting drift.

[Arijharn]

didymos1120 wrote...

Um, blond hair is a recessive allele in the real world (at least the most common forms of "blond"). Revelation just says the phenotype has largely been eliminated.  Since the reason for that is never actually given, there's no way to judge how good it may or may not be.

Really? It doesn't seem to be that recessive when you see stacks of people with blonde hair just in normal everyday life. I guess someone actually number crunched...

[Peer of the Empire]

I'll echo what I said on the old boards and sure as hell hope that blonde hair doesn't go extinct.

Seeing blonde hair everywhere is deceptive; America will become minority-majority within a few decades.

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 15 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[Ieldra]

didymos1120 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
 And the percentage wouldn't go lower unless selected against.

You're neglecting drift.

(1) That can't be predicted. It's a random effect.
(2) Disappearance by genetic drift in a population that size? Seems almost preposterous.

[didymos1120]

Ieldra2 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
 And the percentage wouldn't go lower unless selected against.

You're neglecting drift.

(1) That can't be predicted. It's a random effect.
(2) Disappearance by genetic drift in a population that size? Seems almost preposterous.

 My point was drift could reduce the frequency below that level regardless of selection. I didn't say by how much.

[MajesticJazz]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Why the hell is being "naturally blonde" considered an aspect of being "too perfect," exactly? Is there something special about blonde hair that I'm not aware of?

Its the notion (At least in America) that blonde hair and blue eyed women are the "ideal" when it comes to beauty. Just look at 1950s/1960s for reference and the ever lasting Barbie Doll. Whether you want to admit it or not, today it might be different but for a while, bloned hair and blue eyed women has always made it further in media than other women who weren't. So by making Kahlee like one of the few remaining humans with natural blonde hair was just a little to convient and gives the notion of just how "rare" or "beautiful" she is. It is like the author (in typical mary sue fasion) trying to say "Hey look! This is why Kahlee Sanders is so attractive/important/unique"

For Reference:

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

Notice how Kahlee is the ONLY female in the 3 novels thus far that has been presented in an attractive/sexual way. Anderson wanted her in Revelation and found her "beauty and natural blonde hair" to be attractive. In Acension at the age of 40+ she was the ideal women for even men half her age such as Jiro in which had sex with her. In Retribution, we are given many scenes in which a 15 year old boy constantly has fantasys about her and errections whenever he is around her because she is just so beautiful.

My point is, the novels features many characters but only Kahlee is the one that has even been presented as a LI, attractive etc....All of the love scenes/references ALWAYS involve Kahlee and never another character. Even in Acension it was detailed that while the Academy has many women employees, Kahlee is the most attractive of them all.

This is the author trying to push on the reader just how beautiful she is. In the novels, we've known many men such as Grayson, Grissom, Anderson, Pel, Jiro, Illusive Man etc....but with women.....we only get Kahlee. It wasn't until Retribution when we got Aria and Aria's daughter but even then, they never recieved the same attention as Kahlee.

So I'm going to call it now:

In this next novel Kahlee will:

- Once again be reinfornced as an attractive women, even more so than any other women in the story
- Once again awkwardly fall into an important plot detail in which she will then inform someone else about it such as Anderson
- Once again be stubborn and believe that the world revovles around her ideas and will ignore other people's opinions, suggestions, warnings
- Once again be reinforced as how she is of exceptional blood as she is the daughter of Jon Grissom, the first human to ever travel through a Mass Relay
- Once again be reinforced that she is exceptional in programming and/or other activities that are important to advancing the plot

[jbblue05]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never understood the supposed appeal of blonds.

Bruettes are hotter

[dreman9999]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Why the hell is being "naturally blonde" considered an aspect of being "too perfect," exactly? Is there something special about blonde hair that I'm not aware of?

Its the notion (At least in America) that blonde hair and blue eyed women are the "ideal" when it comes to beauty. Just look at 1950s/1960s for reference and the ever lasting Barbie Doll. Whether you want to admit it or not, today it might be different but for a while, bloned hair and blue eyed women has always made it further in media than other women who weren't. So by making Kahlee like one of the few remaining humans with natural blonde hair was just a little to convient and gives the notion of just how "rare" or "beautiful" she is. It is like the author (in typical mary sue fasion) trying to say "Hey look! This is why Kahlee Sanders is so attractive/important/unique"

For Reference:

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".

Notice how Kahlee is the ONLY female in the 3 novels thus far that has been presented in an attractive/sexual way. Anderson wanted her in Revelation and found her "beauty and natural blonde hair" to be attractive. In Acension at the age of 40+ she was the ideal women for even men half her age such as Jiro in which had sex with her. In Retribution, we are given many scenes in which a 15 year old boy constantly has fantasys about her and errections whenever he is around her because she is just so beautiful.

How could you forget ever Asari in retubution, including Aria. Also, the nurse that Jiro flurted with in Acsension.
And it very common for boys to be attracked to older women. And being the only human woman does not make her a mary sue.

My point is, the novels features many characters but only Kahlee is the one that has even been presented as a LI, attractive etc....All of the love scenes/references ALWAYS involve Kahlee and never another character. Even in Acension it was detailed that while the Academy has many women employees, Kahlee is the most attractive of them all.

Doesn't make a mary sue, just a character that has a strong purpuse to the plot.

This is the author trying to push on the reader just how beautiful she is. In the novels, we've known many men such as Grayson, Grissom, Anderson, Pel, Jiro, Illusive Man etc....but with women.....we only get Kahlee. It wasn't until Retribution when we got Aria and Aria's daughter but even then, they never recieved the same attention as Kahlee.

Not really.....

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[dreman9999]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never understood the supposed appeal of blonds.

People like shinny things.

[Nathan Redgrave]

So, because once upon a time blonde hair was considered the most attractive hair color, that makes it a Mary Sue quality? Or just the rarity?

I don't buy it either way.

[Seboist]

jbblue05 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never understood the supposed appeal of blonds.

Bruettes are hotter

My redhead femshep sez her hair color is hotter than VY Canis Majoris . =)

[dreman9999]

Seboist wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never understood the supposed appeal of blonds.

Bruettes are hotter

My redhead femshep sez her hair color is hotter than VY Canis Majoris . =)

For me, Hair color means nothing.
But dark shin color........

[MajesticJazz]

@dreman9999

Was it really needed to go into detail about a 15 year old having a bonner when around Mary-Sue I mean Kahlee Sanders? I mean hell, Drew literally created a whole subplot about Anderson vs This Boy in regards to who is going to recieve Kahlee's attention. Again, was it really needed?

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

So, because once upon a time blonde hair was considered the most attractive hair color, that makes it a Mary Sue quality? Or just the rarity?

I don't buy it either way.

You are reading what you want to read and ignoring everythingn else. The idea that she is blonde doesn't make her a Mary Sue. But the idea that she possess something that is seen to be very rare an unqiue on the 22nd Century is a symptom of a Mary Sue.

Besides her hair color, everything about her is a Mary Sue. She is the ONLY female in the novels that is portrayed as atttractive while the other women don't even get 10% of the physical description as Kahlee does. She is given high status in nearly every regard such as her intelligence, beauty, nobility (Daughter of a VERY important human), and just about everyone she touches likes her.  So posses no obvious flaws in the same manner as Grayson or Anderson. And most importantly, in every novel, the major plot detail/revelation is ALWAYS initially discovered by Kahlee herself before anyone else. It would be nice for Anderson or someone OTHER THAN Kahlee discover the important plot detail first.

This is why in many ways, Kahlee is also a plot device. Almost every single important plot detail that progresses the plot goes through Kahlee. 

Again, go ahead and doubt me now but I am going to keep record of this thread and once Deception comes out, I'm am going t read it. I bet nothing will change and whatever important plot detail comes up that progresses the plot, it would be Kahlee that finds out about with Gillian and Anderson being the aggressors. Kahlee once again will be portrayed as the token "hot girl" of the novel while all the other women recieves little to no attention regarding their attractiveness as the author once again is trying to establish the notion that we the reader must see Kahlee as attractive. Kahlee would also be given important advice or early warning about something in which she would be stubborn and brush it asside which will later cause harm to others like her not wanting to believe Anderson is safe in Revelation, warnings about Jiro in Acension, and that Grayson cannot be saved in Retribution. All these actions caused harm and even death to many characters BESIDES Kahlee herself. Finally, she will once again play the role of Damsel in Distress (because she was probably too stubborn to listen to advice) and Anderson and/or Gillian will have to come and save her flat azz.

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 15 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[dreman9999]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

So, because once upon a time blonde hair was considered the most attractive hair color, that makes it a Mary Sue quality? Or just the rarity?

I don't buy it either way.

You are reading what you want to read and ignoring everythingn else. The idea that she is blonde doesn't make her a Mary Sue. But the idea that she possess something that is seen to be very rare an unqiue on the 22nd Century is a symptom of a Mary Sue.

Besides her hair color, everything about her is a Mary Sue. She is the ONLY female in the novels that is portrayed as atttractive while the other women don't even get 10% of the physical description as Kahlee does. She is given high status in nearly every regard such as her intelligence, beauty, nobility (Daughter of a VERY important human), and just about everyone she touches likes her.  So posses no obvious flaws in the same manner as Grayson or Anderson. And most importantly, in every novel, the major plot detail/revelation is ALWAYS initially discovered by Kahlee herself before anyone else. It would be nice for Anderson or someone OTHER THAN Kahlee discover the important plot detail first.

This is why in many ways, Kahlee is also a plot device. Almost every single important plot detail that progresses the plot goes through Kahlee. 

Again, go ahead and doubt me now but I am going to keep record of this thread and once Deception comes out, I'm am going t read it. I bet nothing will change and whatever important plot detail comes up that progresses the plot, it would be Kahlee that finds out about with Gillian and Anderson being the aggressors. Kahlee once again will be portrayed as the token "hot girl" of the novel while all the other women recieves little to no attention regarding their attractiveness as the author once again is trying to establish the notion that we the reader must see Kahlee as attractive. Kahlee would also be given important advice or early warning about something in which she would be stubborn and brush it asside which will later cause harm to others like her not wanting to believe Anderson is safe in Revelation, warnings about Jiro in Acension, and that Grayson cannot be saved in Retribution. All these actions caused harm and even death to many characters BESIDES Kahlee herself. Finally, she will once again play the role of Damsel in Distress (because she was probably too stubborn to listen to advice) and Anderson and/or Gillian will have to come and save her flat azz.

Again......the Asari in Retribution. Grayson said it best., "It's going to be hard to go back to human females..."


But I agree on one thing. She has a bad case of Damsel in distress disorder....But she is not the only one in the series who has this.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[MajesticJazz]

dreman9999 wrote...

Again......the Asari in Retribution. Grayson said it best., "It's going to be hard to go back to human females..."


But I agree on one thing. She has a bad case of Damsel in distress disorder....But she is not the only one in the series who has this.

The fact that ONE Asari in Retribution got "sexual attention" does not ignore the fact that throughout 3 novels (And I predict the same in the 4th) that it was ALWAYS Kahlee who recieved the "sexual attention". Even in Retribution there is a subplot of Anderson and the 15-Year old boy vying for Kahlee's attention.

As for the Damsel in Distress, name another character in the novels who has played the Damsel in Distress in ALL 3 NOVELS. It is ONLY Kahlee.

Also what about my other points? You don't agree that the plot points always just happen to be intially discovered by Kahlee? You don't agree that she is stubborn? You don't agree that she doesn't possess any flaws?

Look at Anderson, he is highlyy decorated War Hero but even he has flaws. He talks about his failed marriage and even failed to become a Spectre, even if it was because of Saren, atleast everything just didn't happen for him in a possitive way the same it has for Kahlee in all 3 novels.

[dreman9999]

MajesticJazz wrote...

@dreman9999

Was it really needed to go into detail about a 15 year old having a bonner when around Mary-Sue I mean Kahlee Sanders? I mean hell, Drew literally created a whole subplot about Anderson vs This Boy in regards to who is going to recieve Kahlee's attention. Again, was it really needed?

What sub plot? And again not uncommon for a boy to be attracted to older women.

[dreman9999]

MajesticJazz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Again......the Asari in Retribution. Grayson said it best., "It's going to be hard to go back to human females..."


But I agree on one thing. She has a bad case of Damsel in distress disorder....But she is not the only one in the series who has this.

The fact that ONE Asari in Retribution got "sexual attention" does not ignore the fact that throughout 3 novels (And I predict the same in the 4th) that it was ALWAYS Kahlee who recieved the "sexual attention". Even in Retribution there is a subplot of Anderson and the 15-Year old boy vying for Kahlee's attention.

As for the Damsel in Distress, name another character in the novels who has played the Damsel in Distress in ALL 3 NOVELS. It is ONLY Kahlee.

Also what about my other points? You don't agree that the plot points always just happen to be intially discovered by Kahlee? You don't agree that she is stubborn? You don't agree that she doesn't possess any flaws?

Look at Anderson, he is highlyy decorated War Hero but even he has flaws. He talks about his failed marriage and even failed to become a Spectre, even if it was because of Saren, atleast everything just didn't happen for him in a possitive way the same it has for Kahlee in all 3 novels.

And Aria, and every Asari Kia Lang crossed. Point is that though the book did tell us Kehleen is pretty, It never held her up on a pedistal like you claim the book did.
Also, Damsal in distress number 2 is Gillian.
And things ...well most thing did not just happen for Kehleen. Her spot on the Acension project was one gain on skill, when we met her she was highly skilled anyway and when we left her in revilation she was going to get more skills
As in being caught up with Cerburus.....The only reason this happen was due to the Acension project and knowing TIM, their is no way he would miss out on having his hands in a human biotics project.
Retibution, for her character it was on part guilt, one part paranoia, and one part "I all ready in this mess anyway."

[GuardianAngel470]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

While I'd have no desire to pursue a relationship, Shepard having a young women on the crew, barely considered an adult and not a child, possibly infatuated with a charming commander who would, of course, have no interest in responding to any such interest...

Oh, wait.

Lol, exactly.....

Naltair wrote...

It's not accurate it's just bashing, people are attracted to what they are attracted to.

I am not saying that EVERYONE who are hardcore Tali fans fall into this category, but a great majority of them do. I created a thread about this a long time ago.

Is Tali/Liara popular female LIs because they appeal the the nerdy/geeky/socialy awkward male?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Topic:

Like I said before, I am excited for a new novel but I am set back that it will ONCE AGAIN feature Kahlee Sanders as the lead character. She is stubborn which I find very annoying. It would be okay if she was a side character that has some minor connection to the plot, but it isn't like that. Instead, her story is covered more than anyone else's in the novels. The others would be Anderson and Grayson and they are no where close as to the amount of attention that Kahlee gets.

Most of the problems in the novel happen because of her inability to listen and see things that ISNT from her own point of view. Look at Retribution for example. a lot of crap could have been avoided if she would have just listened and not try to turn Grayson back. But noooooooooo, the Mary Sue had to continue on with her own illogical and irrational events of plot irritation. Then there is the situation win Acension which she didn't want to admit fault with Jiro and we all saw how that turned out. Hendel Mitra tried to warn Kahlee about Jiro and told her to be carefull around him and what she reveals to him, but because she is a stubborn Mary Sue, she denies help and moves on to destroy the plot. 

In terms of character detail/background, she is too perfect and too convienent:

- She is the Alliance's top expert and synthetic intelligence.
- She is the Alliance's top systems and computer technician
- She just happens to have a VERY RARE trait in being naturally blonde
- She just happens to be the daughter of a very important character, Jon Grissom
- She just happens to be part of every major plot event without actually discovering anything (Shepard discovers things in ME1 and ME2)


Then there is here annoying ability to play the role of the Damsel in Distress like she did in Revelation and Retribution.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can keep going but you get the idea about Kahlee Sanders. So in this new novel, Deception, I can expect Kahlee to get captured because she was too dumb to listen to advice so Anderson must save her again. She will be warned to not do something but she would ignore the warning which would later cause greater trouble for OTHER people besides herself like in Acension and Retribution. She would discover something without actually doing any discovery.....vital information would just "accidently" fall into her lap and she would be given the credit for finding it.

Yeah, every criticism you made about Kahlee Sanders is what's called Dramatic Irony. Sucks, I know, but literature will be literature.

On topic, I am now officially looking forward to this book. I liked all the others a lot and absolutely loved how they tied into the main games, especially ascension. That was just too cool.

[GuardianAngel470]

MajesticJazz wrote...

@dreman9999

Was it really needed to go into detail about a 15 year old having a bonner when around Mary-Sue I mean Kahlee Sanders? I mean hell, Drew literally created a whole subplot about Anderson vs This Boy in regards to who is going to recieve Kahlee's attention. Again, was it really needed?

Go into detail? It constituted all of the end of one chapter and in my opinion it was always obvious that the boy was wasting his energy. What exactly do you want?

[cachx]

Completely pessimistic prediction: All book-exclusive characters will die or go away and we won't see them in ME3. If they do show up, they'll look generic and don't do much.

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like a very real possibility to me.