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[AlexXIV]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ethereal Writer,

You forgot a key point: In Fereldan, while people believe in the Maker, well enough, there is far less popular support for the Chantry and it's Templars than other parts of Thedas because the Chantry acted for so (too) long as an open arm of the hated Orlesian occupiers, and even today, people associate the Chantry with (hated) Orlais.

Nationalism matters in Fereldan and it matters a lot.

-Polaris

That's a good point. If that was mentioned in the books though, I never knew because I don't have the books sadly. I should rectify that.

I think Loghain represents the nationalism in Ferelden best. The war with the Orlesians only happened 20 years prior to the blight, so I guess every adult in Ferelden still remembers it or the years after the war which probably were not easy either. Probably almost every Ferelden has lost some family member because of the Orlesians.

[TEWR]

AlexXIV wrote...

I think the key in Ferelden is actually Alistair. He is a popular king and people love him. That gives him alot of influence. Also the Warden does probably have some influence on him, no matter the choices the Warden made. Anora is just a power player. If she is on the throne she will do whatever she thinks is best for fereleden which probably means she won't risk a war for some lofty ideal.

If Alistair marries Anora I can see them both supporting the mages, after possibly butting heads for a while. And if two well-loved people born in Ferelden side with the mages, and given IanPolaris' points regarding the Chantry during the time of the Orlesian occupation, the Bannorn, Arls, and maybe even Teyrnirs would side with the monarchs. Mages have helped Ferelden on many an occasion.

• Irving and a group of other mages saved Connor. Or Jowan at the cost of Isolde. take your pick
  
• Wynne and Morrigan helped to stop the Blight, and possibly the Warden
  
• I guess one could argue Avernus' research, though by the means executed were horrible, helped to end the Blight.
  
• If the country knew Wynne kept demons and abominations from running rampant throughout the country by erecting a barrier over the only door that lead to the big door the Templars shut, that would increase mage support.
  
• While not dealing with Ferelden specifically, given the close proximity to the Free Marches they may have heard what happened. Maybe due to Alistair's diplomatic visit and telling Hawke that the biggest threat to the city of Kirkwall was Meredith. So they might support the mages after hearing a Right of Annulment was called unjustly.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Foolsfolly]

It also looks like Orlais might be going to war with Ferelden soon.

And if you gave a boon to the Circle in Origins Leliana hints that something bad happened to the Ferelden Circle.

So it's hard to see where Ferelden will stand in the Mage War. Maybe we'll be in Ferelden for DA3 and be the deciding factor.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

It also looks like Orlais might be going to war with Ferelden soon.

And if you gave a boon to the Circle in Origins Leliana hints that something bad happened to the Ferelden Circle.

So it's hard to see where Ferelden will stand in the Mage War. Maybe we'll be in Ferelden for DA3 and be the deciding factor.

I imported my mage warden who asked for that boon hoping to hear something and it was never mentioned

What exactly does she say?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 avril 2011 - 08:36 .

[IanPolaris]

Foolsfolly wrote...

It also looks like Orlais might be going to war with Ferelden soon.

And if you gave a boon to the Circle in Origins Leliana hints that something bad happened to the Ferelden Circle.

So it's hard to see where Ferelden will stand in the Mage War. Maybe we'll be in Ferelden for DA3 and be the deciding factor.

That's not what she says.  She says, that the world is watching Kirkwall and it must not be allowed to fall to magic especially after what happened in Feredan.

It can't be that bad for Fereldan because concurrently (within days because it's Act 3), you meet King Alistair and he doesn't even mention any problem with the Fereldan Circle and he's very open and forthright about Fereldan's other problems.

He DOES flat out tell you that he's nationalized magic outside the circles, had made Fereldan a mage-haven, and is looking to nationalize the Templars and Mages even within the circle.

DG was very coy about all this (which is why  think it will be central in DA3) but I think you are completely misreading Lel's comments if you say something bad happened in Fereldan's circle.

I think given the evidence it's far more reasonable to think that something really bad happend in Fereldan from the point of view of the Chantry.  My best guess:  I think Alister/Fereldan has gone "Church of England" on the Divine over the issue of magic given the pressure from Orlais.

-Polaris

[Ealos]

"What happenned in Ferelden" seems to refer to the demonic incursion in Broken Circle

I think that it's important to remember as well that the Chantry does not equate to the Templars. The Templars have abandoned the Chantry to spend time witch hunting, it doesn't say what this means: given that this is their main purpose anyway, does this abandonment mean that they are no longer taking orders from the Divine, and that Justinia is for peace? Could Justinia be replaced by the Templars, or the Templars denounced by the Chantry (after all, the real world knights templar were denounced by the Pope due to politics)?

Would be interesting if Orlais made common cause with the Templars to gain support for an attack on Ferelden. I can see that giving the posibillity of alliances between Ferelden and Nevarra and so on, and thus nations willing to support the mages.
.

[Herr Uhl]

Ealos wrote...

"What happenned in Ferelden" seems to refer to the demonic incursion in Broken Circle

Apparently, that is only mentioned if you do the mage boon. So it is probably something else, like Alistair/Anora harboring apostates.

[Ealos]

I'll have another play of the Leliana convo, but I'm pretty sure it happens without the boon, will check

[IanPolaris]

Ealos wrote...

I'll have another play of the Leliana convo, but I'm pretty sure it happens without the boon, will check

I'll save you some time.  It does (I've checked).  That said, it IMHO almost certainly refers to the fact that Fereldan is essentialy spitting in the Chantry's eye and is an open mage-haven....and from the sounds of it, Alistair is looking to naionalize all magical resources in Fereldan which would also involve a state schism with the Chantry. The latter hasn't happened (yet),but IMHO it's only a matter of time.  That's why I mean when I say that I see Fereldan going "Church of England" on the Chantry.

-Polaris

[Ealos]

Ah, I see. I assumed that anything referenced like that would be something either more fully explained, like Alistair telling you about tensions with Orlais, or something that every player would know about, hence problems with Ferelden's circle immediately made me think of the only problems I'd encountered, as I hadn't heard anything about it since (thank you bartender for your up-to-date take on news, 7 years later and you're still telling me things I already know).

[Adanu]

I don't remember Alistair saying anything about nationalizing magic... when does he says this?

[Foolsfolly]

Adanu wrote...

I don't remember Alistair saying anything about nationalizing magic... when does he says this?

Ali doesn't say anything. Of course, his dialogue was also written before anything for Seb's mission since Seb was DLC.

And his dialogue's more based around Orlais anyway, which is a pressing matter. Whatever may have happened for the mage boon (and we don't know what it is) happened in the past. It's like if he showed up and only talked about how he once saved his Uncle's life with ashes. It's old news.

Something happened in Ferelden and none of us have the answers, only the writers know and obviously they're not going to spoil it.

[IanPolaris]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Adanu wrote...

I don't remember Alistair saying anything about nationalizing magic... when does he says this?

Ali doesn't say anything. Of course, his dialogue was also written before anything for Seb's mission since Seb was DLC.

And his dialogue's more based around Orlais anyway, which is a pressing matter. Whatever may have happened for the mage boon (and we don't know what it is) happened in the past. It's like if he showed up and only talked about how he once saved his Uncle's life with ashes. It's old news.

Something happened in Ferelden and none of us have the answers, only the writers know and obviously they're not going to spoil it.

Does Alistair say the magic words, "I am nationalizing magic?"  No.  However, that is what he says.  When he says that unfortunately he can only do things about the mages outside the circle and not in it, but "we'll see" when asked why he doesn't just kick the templars out, and when you combine that with the fact he is making Fereldan a mage-haven, he in effect IS saying he's nationalizing magic.  He is saying, that the chantry doesn't control magic in Fereldan outside the physical circle tower, I do. That IS nationlizing magic.

-Polaris

[Steve236]

IanPolaris wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Adanu wrote...

I don't remember Alistair saying anything about nationalizing magic... when does he says this?

Ali doesn't say anything. Of course, his dialogue was also written before anything for Seb's mission since Seb was DLC.

And his dialogue's more based around Orlais anyway, which is a pressing matter. Whatever may have happened for the mage boon (and we don't know what it is) happened in the past. It's like if he showed up and only talked about how he once saved his Uncle's life with ashes. It's old news.

Something happened in Ferelden and none of us have the answers, only the writers know and obviously they're not going to spoil it.

Does Alistair say the magic words, "I am nationalizing magic?"  No.  However, that is what he says.  When he says that unfortunately he can only do things about the mages outside the circle and not in it, but "we'll see" when asked why he doesn't just kick the templars out, and when you combine that with the fact he is making Fereldan a mage-haven, he in effect IS saying he's nationalizing magic.  He is saying, that the chantry doesn't control magic in Fereldan outside the physical circle tower, I do. That IS nationlizing magic.

-Polaris

Make you wonder if that was alistair idea or anora/loghain to make a mage army.

[mindblanks2]

AlexXIV wrote...

mindblanks2 wrote...

Torax wrote...

blothulfur wrote...

The qunari wholeheartedly support your war.

The Qunari are probably just sitting and eating cookies and cakes with the dalish and thinking "We can be friends when they all die right?"

Actually, I think they may have to go to war just because of the cake.  Afterall, Sten was told there would be cake, and the cake is a lie.  We've seen how the Qunari treat those who lie/disagree with them...

Also the Qunari think of humans as little overweight kids who shouldn't eat cookies anyway. So they are probably comming to take all the cookies. For the greater good.

An excellant point.  Personally, I thought the Arishok could do with a few more cookies, myself.  Either that or maybe some TLC?