204 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Monica83 wrote...

The new system is quite strange..... I miss the party interaction problems with different members ala Baldur's gate but with this new direction tend to streamlize so much things...For example in baldur's gate 2 if you have a bad interaction with companions or your character is very different from them.. They can betray or attack you.. In dragon age you can be a deplomatic guy... a sarcastic jerk.. or a aggressive ass... And they still follow you.... Why?... Simple.....
Less roleplay choice in favour of more gameplay elements... That's its just for... tards..

I find it amusing how you're calling people tards when you don't seem to understand the difference between using ellipses and a period. 

[Warheadz]

Spoilers!

'Twas funny. My Hawke was a mage saving goody-two shoes who hated Fenris, and Fenris hated me, and all I wanted to do was to ask "Why the **** do you still hang around me?". I rescued every single mage I met, and Fenris just gave me a disapproving look. And the first thing that crossed my mind when I sided with the mages and Fenris comes along with the templars to fight me: "About ****ing time!". The rivalry just didn't work.

[DraCZeQQ]

Monica83 wrote...

The new system is quite strange..... I miss the party interaction problems with different members ala Baldur's gate but with this new direction tend to streamlize so much things...For example in baldur's gate 2 if you have a bad interaction with companions or your character is very different from them.. They can betray or attack you.. In dragon age you can be a deplomatic guy... a sarcastic jerk.. or a aggressive ass... And they still follow you.... Why?... Simple.....
Less roleplay choice in favour of more gameplay elements... That's its just for... tards..

Well the obvious reason is that Bioware wont let you kick out NPC coz there is not enough NPC to fill the missing spot ... basicly the game works only for specific NPCs and there is zero redundancy ... you have these NPC, if we add another ... well too much work for us, suck it up, they wont leave, even if you are superjerk to them and never ever agree with them, mock them, deny them their ideals, their dreams ... they will still follow you even there is not a single reason why they should be with you ...

so I agree 

[TheAwesomologist]

The Friendship/Rival path is just misnamed. For instance I've gone and made Sebastian a "Rival" but in reality we agree on most everything except I think he'd make a good ruler and he wants to be cloistered in the Chantry. Meanwhile Fenris and I are apparently best friends even if I support mages because we both like ganking slavers. The system isn't bad, but Rival has a negative connotation when in fact many of the Rival paths aren't negative at all.

System just needs to be relabeled and some sort of explanation as to what happens and why would be nice.

[Monica83]

Ryzaki wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

The new system is quite strange..... I miss the party interaction problems with different members ala Baldur's gate but with this new direction tend to streamlize so much things...For example in baldur's gate 2 if you have a bad interaction with companions or your character is very different from them.. They can betray or attack you.. In dragon age you can be a deplomatic guy... a sarcastic jerk.. or a aggressive ass... And they still follow you.... Why?... Simple.....
Less roleplay choice in favour of more gameplay elements... That's its just for... tards..

I find it amusing how you're calling people tards when you don't seem to understand the difference between using ellipses and a period. 

i used this word referred to the system not at people and english is not my first language... but if you want i can challenge you to talk in italian...

Ciao caro usciamo a prendere una pizza?

And most important....

A character that don't have sorry the terms the balls to unsheath his sword or go away and hate for the action that's result hated by him is two thing....

A) Retarded
Idiot

Modifié par Monica83, 13 avril 2011 - 03:42 .

[AlexMBrennan]

There isn't any more redundancy in Origins but you can still not recruit/kill a few NPCs (e.g. good luck with the endgame if you don't recruit Leliana, kill Wynne and don't do the ritual)

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 13 avril 2011 - 03:48 .

[Monica83]

SOrry but its quite ridicolus its like:

Hero: I killed your mother she looks me bad
Companion: WHat you are done!? I hate you but i still follow you.....

So this is a great roleplay element?.....lol....
Pleaaaaase

[Warheadz]

Lol? I found Wynne annoying and Leliana wasn't that useful. You don't need either on Nightmare.

[F-C]

i can see what they were trying to do with it, but i dont think it really worked out that well.

like one of my best friends that ive known for 20 years can be quite a rival when it comes to competitive things like games. lately we have been competing on WII golf, which i quite enjoy btw.

however, the games system is not like that, at all. instead they award rivalry points for disagreeing with the person over major issues... which in real life would generally not lead to a friendship.


also, the bonuses for maxxing out the meter one way or the other detracts from playing how you really want to, because you dont want to end up with a weaker team just because you chose the wrong dialogue option.

i understand they want to give you some kind of reward, but in this case i dont really think it makes the game better.

[Saephy]

Monica83 wrote...

The new system is quite strange..... I miss the party interaction problems with different members ala Baldur's gate but with this new direction tend to streamlize so much things...For example in baldur's gate 2 if you have a bad interaction with companions or your character is very different from them.. They can betray or attack you.. In dragon age you can be a deplomatic guy... a sarcastic jerk.. or a aggressive ass... And they still follow you.... Why?... Simple.....
Less roleplay choice in favour of more gameplay elements... That's its just for... tards..

Well, that also meant that in BGII you could be "best buds" with someone , have one "bad interaction" and they would attack you, which doesn`t really make sense to me, but I digress; different strokes for different folks.

I loved BGII to bits, but in BGII if you disagreed or were a "jerk" as you say, they would usually either attack you or just not talk to you anymore.
Personally I prefer that you are now able to actually disagree, or play a less than sympathectic person and still be able to have interaction with companions, explore their personality and your differences.
I feel it adds much more depth to companion relationships as opposed to just having them shut up like clams for the rest of the game, and so I am tempted to say it adds to the role-playing experience rather than detracts.

But as I said, different strokes for different folks.

[Monica83]

F-C wrote...

i can see what they were trying to do with it, but i dont think it really worked out that well.

like one of my best friends that ive known for 20 years can be quite a rival when it comes to competitive things like games. lately we have been competing on WII golf, which i quite enjoy btw.

however, the games system is not like that, at all. instead they award rivalry points for disagreeing with the person over major issues... which in real life would generally not lead to a friendship.


also, the bonuses for maxxing out the meter one way or the other detracts from playing how you really want to, because you dont want to end up with a weaker team just because you chose the wrong dialogue option.

i understand they want to give you some kind of reward, but in this case i dont really think it makes the game better.

In fact that fact turns the game to be incoherent linear static and whitout logic its something quite ridicolus that you make things hated by your companion and they keep follow you...

Those are the only explanable reason sarcastic ones of course...

A)You are a deamon that charm people only with your presence and they can't leave you..
Your pary member have the personality of a dead fish
C) Someone pressed a button and in theyr brain something weird happened

And to answer to sea... i prefear in that way why?
I like character that have a personality...not brainless golems

Modifié par Monica83, 13 avril 2011 - 03:56 .

[Ryzaki]

Monica83 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

The new system is quite strange..... I miss the party interaction problems with different members ala Baldur's gate but with this new direction tend to streamlize so much things...For example in baldur's gate 2 if you have a bad interaction with companions or your character is very different from them.. They can betray or attack you.. In dragon age you can be a deplomatic guy... a sarcastic jerk.. or a aggressive ass... And they still follow you.... Why?... Simple.....
Less roleplay choice in favour of more gameplay elements... That's its just for... tards..

I find it amusing how you're calling people tards when you don't seem to understand the difference between using ellipses and a period. 

i used this word referred to the system not at people and english is not my first language... but if you want i can challenge you to talk in italian...

Ciao caro usciamo a prendere una pizza?

And most important....

A character that don't have sorry the terms the balls to unsheath his sword or go away and hate for the action that's result hated by him is two thing....

A) Retarded
Idiot

Right but you posted in english hun. It's best not to call someone retarded at all. Especially not when you don't know the language fully. You make yourself look stupid. No matter what language you do or do not know. 

There's nothing "retarded" about the system. If you can't understand it it says far more about you than anything. Just sayin' 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 03:58 .

[Monica83]

Well dear you think is smart stay with someone that you hate?.... What a strange world!

[Ryzaki]

Monica83 wrote...

Well dear you think is smart stay with someone that you hate?.... What a strange world!

If you actually played the game. You'd realize that no one hates you in rivalry. 

How about you play the game, do the rivalries before opening your mouth? 

[Monica83]

But if Anders hate templar and what they do to mages... Traveling with a templar helper don't have any sense.. The game is full of those things..... Anders in that case have ALL the reason to hate you but him continue to stay with you.. Sorry if i don't find this sistem so smart....

And yes i played the game.. and im tired of fanboys that comes out to say.. Hey i didin't see your game registered so you have not it.... Come on.....

Modifié par Monica83, 13 avril 2011 - 04:04 .

[fchopin]

Didn’t use rivalry in DA2, just selected what text i liked and went with that.

Waste of time imo.

[Aaleel]

Ryzaki wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Well dear you think is smart stay with someone that you hate?.... What a strange world!

If you actually played the game. You'd realize that no one hates you in rivalry. 

How about you play the game, do the rivalries before opening your mouth? 

Well what exactly is it if you don't give Merrill what she wants? 

[Ryzaki]

Monica83 wrote...

But if Anders hate templar and what they do to mages... Traveling with a templar helper don't have any sense.. The game is full of those things..... Anders in that case have ALL the reason to hate you but him continue to stay with you.. Sorry if i don't find this sistem so smart....

And yes i played the game.. and im tired of fanboys that comes out to say.. Hey i didin't see your game registered so you have not it.... Come on.....

Anders doesn't side with you on the templars side without good reasoning. (Game is bugged so he doesn't do it at all currently). The system is fine. 

And I call BS about you playing the game because if you had you would've known Anders refuses to side with the templars and is bugged. *maybe not bugged but you would've known he couldn't side with the templars*

So yes I don't believe you played the game. Your game not being registered makes that only more clear. Especially considering you know enough about registration to register your DAO game. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 04:06 .

[Ryzaki]

Aaleel wrote...

Well what exactly is it if you don't give Merrill what she wants? 

You're protecting her. She's pissed but she doesn't hate you by any means. 

She wants to fix a mirror that killed someone. And is bargining with a demon to do it. That's not good. She's far more dangerous than to just herself. IF she turns into an abomination because of that mirror then what pray tell is Hawke supposed to do while she rampages? By the time Hawke can kill her he'll probably be too late to save several people right outside her door. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[Monica83]

Ok now this is defend bad implemented things climbing on the glass with nails and theets: Useless

[Rheia]

I think people on this thread argue two separate arguments/issues.

1) Some have an issue with definition of the word rivalry, equating it with hostility emnity, thus interpreting that DA2 'rivalry relationship path' should be about companion turning into protagonist's enemy and sabotaging their goals. Which, in this game, it is not about.

2) Others dislike the mechanics of DA2 friend/rival system, which, represents two different approaches to securing companion's loyalty. Simplifying it a bit: friendship path yealds loyalty through sharing similar views, ideals and consistent support and agreement and rivalry path yealds loyalty through challange of values, convictions and pushing another to attempt to see things in different light.

In DA II both friendship and rivalry are about winning respect.

I don't think anyone here argues that friendship path is the surest way to do it.

I do believe it is a little hard to grasp how rivalry path can secure respect when it is dredged in conflict that becomes more and more volatile as the time passes, untill it reaches that big moment when the rivals either snap and part ways(or plan to/will oppose each other when push comes to shove) or learn to appreciate their differences and have each other backs.

One of the problem with rivalry mechanic is how it is accumulated. Some of the rivalry accumulated through legitimate disagreements, rooted in ideology. On occasion it is accumulated by 'being a douch/insensetive jerk'. And even though I personally do not agree those moments are plentiful enough, the argument becomes: why the hell would one give respect to someone who's obviously not interested in gaining it in return?
------
I guess, what I'm trying to say, some here are arguing semantics, and others are arguing mechanics/flaws in the companion loyalty system.

I apologize if I offended anyone, or if I'm stating the obvious here.

I do believe, however, that it would help if people state their issue clearer, and if they critique the system they'd offer suggestions for improvement instead of just saying 'it's retarded'.

Modifié par Rheia, 13 avril 2011 - 04:49 .

[Tirigon]

Caralampio wrote...

Sure you can stretch your mind to find an explanation, something in the "opposites attract each other" dept. But frankly. In any dictionary you can find, a rival is an enemy. An enemy hates you. But in DA2 rivals don't hate you. They don't leave you, they don't backstab you.  

In DA2, a rival is just a variety of friend. There are friend-friends, and there are rival-friends. A rival friend is someone whom you have offended repeatedly, belittled, done things he/she hates, and in general being in their eyes obnoxious. Yet, they still love you. They are even your very close "friends", just in a weird codependent way.
Hmm.

Personally, I thought the rivalry system was a big heap of crap.

DAO did much better with its approval / disapproval scale.
And i´m saying that though I DIDN´T like this........

[Ryzaki]

Monica83 wrote...

Ok now this is defend bad implemented things climbing on the glass with nails and theets: Useless

mmhmm. And this is where your opinion uttery fails. You haven't played the game. And I daresay you haven't even bother watching any youtube vids of rivalry interactions. 

There is no hatred. 

There is agitaition. And butting heads. There is no "I HATE YOU GO DIE IN A FIRE!" that you seem to believe. Closest to that is Anders' "I wanna strangle you sometimes." and Aveline's beatdown. But both are said in moments of frustration. 

Fenris snarls and takes offense at all your gifts but there is no hatred of Hawke. Just agitation and irritation. 

With the rivalry climax that agitation and irritation becomes a friendship (one born of butting heads) if you make the right decisions. It maxes out rivalry but it is a form of friendship. You'd know that if you did the rivalry. 

That said I do see the agitation about the douche options sometimes leading to rivalry (but there's some douche options that lead to friendship) so eh. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[Monica83]

A very nice post.. but its not well implemented as a system... This system will be a lot more coherent if anders go away from you the first time you help templars to capture apostates... Even if anders.. (and that its not happened to me) at the end of game betray me... Well its not so smart.... Sorry in the whole game you help templars and anders whait the last chapter to betray you?... This is be...Masochist