204 réponses à ce sujet

[17thknight]

Abispa wrote...

Hmm, Baldur's Gate II is a favorite of mine, but I've actually started up a game two months ago and cringed at the way EVERY female character started fighting over me. Hell, all you had to do was tell someone you weren't interested and who ever was left standing was your personal love slave. One thing I have to admit, though, is that the scripts for some of the cat-fights featured some awesome low blows.

You must have gone for Aerie, because it doesn't work that way at ALL with Viconnia.

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Baldur's Gate 2 had no system to speak of. (Much as I love that game)

Oh really?

Get a reputation at 1 and see what happens with Aeirie, Minsc, Jaheira, etc.

Or get a maxed reputation and see what happens with Viconia.

No thanks. I'm usually using modded characters in BG2 these days. (Save for Minsc and MAYBE Jaheira) Yes, they throw a hissy fit and leave. Not in my game though. (Thank you, Tweak Pack! XD)

[17thknight]

Persephone wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Baldur's Gate 2 had no system to speak of. (Much as I love that game)

Oh really?

Get a reputation at 1 and see what happens with Aeirie, Minsc, Jaheira, etc.

Or get a maxed reputation and see what happens with Viconia.

No thanks. I'm usually using modded characters in BG2 these days. (Save for Minsc and MAYBE Jaheira) Yes, they throw a hissy fit and leave. Not in my game though. (Thank you, Tweak Pack! XD)

....so then you admit there IS  a system, you just modded it out.
So when you said there's "no system" in BG2 you were wrong.
Thanks for admitting it.

[Abispa]

I never played a character shallow enough to be enamored by Viconnia and Aerie was just sad. Jahera was interesting, but eventually I decided to play a dwarf so I wouldn't be bothered.

[Tirigon]

Miashi wrote...

cpmd4 wrote...

It's way better than Origins, where I was so two-faced trying to please each individual character.

Now I can play the way I want and not fear losing important party members and losing out.

And why not? What's so bad about playing an hypocrit character? I'm pretty sure a lot of people irl are hypocrit to avoid confrontation or lose allies.

Actually you didn´t need to appease everyone in DAO.

In fact, I think doing so is counter-productive. Personally i had great trouble leaving many "friends" at camp all the time.
In my last playthrough - which also was the most enjoyable - it was easy for me:

Alistair is with me all the time, and also was my Lover (that means, 100 approval, obviously). I agreed with him on just about everything and all.....

Leliana was with me all the time, too. There was a bit light-hearted flirting, although it didnt even lead to a kiss, let alone a romance, since my char was loyal to Alistair. Ended with 95 or 100 or so approval as best friends.

Sten was a warrior my Char had much respect for, and eventually gained his respect. Party member most of the time. 100 approval (even though I totally disagreed with him on mages and women, my char being both). In the end, the Warden even accompanied him to par Vollen.

Morrigan was sometimes a substitute for Sten in the party, my char (becoming shapeshifter herself) agreed with her rather often, but not always. Never got beyond 60 or so approval.

Zevran killed in the ambush, Wynne told to stay at the Circle to help Irving, Oghren recruited immediately before Landsmeet, and never fought with him except in the Deep roads. No Friendship.

Noone was spammed with gifts. Except for the special ones with dialogue, I only gave 1 to each, and only if it made sense for my character.....

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Baldur's Gate 2 had no system to speak of. (Much as I love that game)

Oh really?

Get a reputation at 1 and see what happens with Aeirie, Minsc, Jaheira, etc.

Or get a maxed reputation and see what happens with Viconia.

No thanks. I'm usually using modded characters in BG2 these days. (Save for Minsc and MAYBE Jaheira) Yes, they throw a hissy fit and leave. Not in my game though. (Thank you, Tweak Pack! XD)

....so then you admit there IS  a system, you just modded it out.
So when you said there's "no system" in BG2 you were wrong.
Thanks for admitting it.

Yes, throwing a one liner hissy fit and disappearing from the party is an AWESOME system indeed. I was being sarcastic, GEEZ! Like...now!

[Miashi]

What bothers me about DAII friendship and rivalry system is that friendship and rivalry are meant to be a key elements in DA:2, however it's not sensitive at all.

Once you start shifting down the rival/friend path with someone, doing their loyalty quest or giving them gifts will advance them further in their alignment. It feels far too polarized, even though I can understand that it's convenient on a game mechanic aspect.

When you make a decision, sometimes a companion will shift in friendship or rivalry without saying anything - mind you it happened in DA:O, but it feels even more distressing in DA:2; like if I spare Idunna and send her to the templars, Isabela will throw me a dissaprove just out of nowhere, without telling me why. WHY? She's supposed to be neutral against mages?!

It's just not fair to make a game reliant on companionship and provide no clear reason on why your friends approve or dissaprove your decisions.

edited for clarify

Modifié par Miashi, 13 avril 2011 - 06:01 .

[Ryzaki]

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

[Miashi]

Ryzaki wrote...

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

Yes, as I said this isn't something that is unique of DA:2. But relationships are pivotal in DA:2 and therefore it becomes even more infuriating.

[Persephone]

Miashi wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

Yes, as I said this isn't something that is unique of DA:2. But relationships are pivotal in DA:2 and therefore it becomes even more infuriating.

Isabella being miffed if Idunna being spared (Who just used blood magic on her as well as Hawke) is completely understandable IMO.

She may not have problems with mages but being targeted by blood magic will make her angry. And justly so.

[Miashi]

Persephone wrote...

Isabella being miffed if Idunna being spared (Who just used blood magic on her as well as Hawke) is completely understandable IMO.

She may not have problems with mages but being targeted by blood magic will make her angry. And justly so.

.......and what about Fenris then?

[Maria Caliban]

Rivalry is the best thing to happen to companion interactions since approval.

[17thknight]

Persephone wrote...


Yes, throwing a one liner hissy fit and disappearing from the party is an AWESOME system indeed. I was being sarcastic, GEEZ! Like...now!

They warn you repeatedly before it happens, and many of the characters stop and have a conversation with you giving you chance to "change your ways".

Your oversimplification shows just how much of a "fan" you are of BG2, because at this point I question if you've even played it.

[Persephone]

Miashi wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Isabella being miffed if Idunna being spared (Who just used blood magic on her as well as Hawke) is completely understandable IMO.

She may not have problems with mages but being targeted by blood magic will make her angry. And justly so.

.......and what about Fenris then?

What about him? (Serious question. My brain is on overload atm XD) 

[Miashi]

Persephone wrote...
What about him? (Serious question. My brain is on overload atm XD) 

He has no reaction if you spare Idunna to the templars - no friendship nor rivalry - yet he should definitely be reacting, considering how blood magic was used on him.

Modifié par Miashi, 13 avril 2011 - 06:11 .

[Tirigon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

Sten is special.

You can get 16 approval for the following convo, too:

- What were you doing in that cage?
- Sitting, as you observed.
- That was not what I meant.
- It was what you asked. Can we move on?
- Let´s go.

Persephone wrote...

Isabella being miffed if Idunna being
spared (Who just used blood magic on her as well as Hawke) is completely
understandable IMO.

She may not have problems with mages but being targeted by blood magic will make her angry. And justly so.

She should say so, though. Instead of just granting rivalry, she should ask you to rethink your decision and only get angry if you don´t.

[Ryzaki]

Miashi wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

Yes, as I said this isn't something that is unique of DA:2. But relationships are pivotal in DA:2 and therefore it becomes even more infuriating.

ah. I never had any trouble with friendship/rivalry levels. Just doing their personal quests and talking to them usually solved that problem. 

[Tirigon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Rivalry is the best thing to happen to companion interactions since approval.

That´s like saying "diapers is the best thing to happen to crap since crapping in your trousers"

[Persephone]

17thknight wrote...

Persephone wrote...


Yes, throwing a one liner hissy fit and disappearing from the party is an AWESOME system indeed. I was being sarcastic, GEEZ! Like...now!

They warn you repeatedly before it happens, and many of the characters stop and have a conversation with you giving you chance to "change your ways".

Your oversimplification shows just how much of a "fan" you are of BG2, because at this point I question if you've even played it.

Warning talks like 4 word complaints? Oh, question all you like, I couldn't care less. Meanwhile my Child of Bhaal will go through BG2 and TOB with Jon Irenicus at her side in TOB (Must pick between two Mods there, ARGH! The Longer Road I already played but...) and romancing.......tadaaaaaaaaa.......Kelsey again!!! (Going to take Anomen along still, the rivalry is just so awesome...and the "Getting rid of Anomen" part....HAHA!

[Miashi]

Ryzaki wrote...

Miashi wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Like in origins where I get a sten dissapproves when I gave someone 50 silvers for a sword?

Yes, as I said this isn't something that is unique of DA:2. But relationships are pivotal in DA:2 and therefore it becomes even more infuriating.

ah. I never had any trouble with friendship/rivalry levels. Just doing their personal quests and talking to them usually solved that problem. 

Problem with Dragon Age 2 is that there's only 2 specific moments you "speak" to your friends: loyalty quests, or when they interject in your conversations. The only moment they will discuss to you is after Fenryiel (if you brought them with you) and questionning beliefs. You don't get questionning beliefs if you're neutral with a companion.

[Persephone]

Miashi wrote...

Persephone wrote...
What about him? (Serious question. My brain is on overload atm XD) 

He has no reaction if you spare Idunna to the templars - no friendship nor rivalry - yet he should definitely be reacting, considering how blood magic was used on him.

Ah. Well, she's being sent to the Templars. He knows what they do to blood mages. So I guess he's fine with it and really....a swift murder knife may be too gentle in his opinion.

[Miashi]

Persephone wrote...
Ah. Well, she's being sent to the Templars. He knows what they do to blood mages. So I guess he's fine with it and really....a swift murder knife may be too gentle in his opinion.

Ok... but where's my friendship point then? See what I mean? Do it or don't. Friendship and rivalry is used arbritarily.

Modifié par Miashi, 13 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Ryzaki]

Miashi wrote...
Problem with Dragon Age 2 is that there's only 2 specific moments you "speak" to your friends: loyalty quests, or when they interject in your conversations. The only moment they will discuss to you is after Fenryiel (if you brought them with you) and questionning beliefs. You don't get questionning beliefs if you're neutral with a companion.

 

Huh. That's...not true. There's far more than 2 specific moments. (For friends anyway. I've yet to be neutral with anyone other than Isabela it's really hard to do so otherwise.) Just doing their quests usually give you a decent boost for friendship/rivarly. 

And you didn't get any additional dialogue if your approval wasn't over a certain number in origins either. They didn't respect/trust you enough. 

[17thknight]

Miashi wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Ah. Well, she's being sent to the Templars. He knows what they do to blood mages. So I guess he's fine with it and really....a swift murder knife may be too gentle in his opinion.

Ok... but where's my friendship point then? See what I mean? Do it or don't. Friendship and rivalry is used arbritarily.

Your'e talking to a typical fanboi who is gigglesqueeing over the pile of **** that is DA2. Expect neither logic nor reason.

[Miashi]

Ryzaki wrote...

Miashi wrote...
Problem with Dragon Age 2 is that there's only 2 specific moments you "speak" to your friends: loyalty quests, or when they interject in your conversations. The only moment they will discuss to you is after Fenryiel (if you brought them with you) and questionning beliefs. You don't get questionning beliefs if you're neutral with a companion.

 

Huh. That's...not true. There's far more than 2 specific moments. (For friends anyway. I've yet to be neutral with anyone other than Isabela it's really hard to do so otherwise.) Just doing their quests usually give you a decent boost for friendship/rivarly. 

And you didn't get any additional dialogue if your approval wasn't over a certain number in origins either. They didn't respect/trust you enough. 

By loyalty quests I mean companion quests. Bolded.
But in origins I could speak to my companions at camp, even though I didn't have them in my optimal group setup.