204 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

xkg wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Miashi wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Ah. Well, she's being sent to the Templars. He knows what they do to blood mages. So I guess he's fine with it and really....a swift murder knife may be too gentle in his opinion.

Ok... but where's my friendship point then? See what I mean? Do it or don't. Friendship and rivalry is used arbritarily.

Your'e talking to a typical fanboi who is gigglesqueeing over the pile of **** that is DA2. Expect neither logic nor reason.

+10
so true so true that i couldnt resist to prise you for this
i just live by my rules (one you can read in my tagline) so i just ignore those few "iam the wisest" here on forums

I don't think anything I have written contains even a hint of "My opinion is the only right one!" yadda dadda.

Gawd, the hypocrisy!

[ejoslin]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

I understand the concept of the friendly rivalry system, to me it works kind of best with Carver. You're both after the same objective, together, but trying to out-do eachother to get it. You like eachother, but you're competing and take pot shots at eachother.

Did anyone ever watch Facts of Life? Blair and Jo would be "Friend Rivals". So it makes sense.

HOWEVER, in DA2, there was no reason some characters would stick with you, and should have left if you continually do things they hate. These are not boarding school girls who are forced to live together, there is no reason for Fenris to stick around if you are a pro-mage blood mage who continually sides with mages. No Rivalry Friend would keep him at your side for 6 years.

Fenris is waiting for Denarius to attack.  However, try NOT going after Hadriana.  I believe he leaves you if you refuse to do so the second time he asks.  If you kill Hadriana, he has every reason to believe you have his back when Denarius comes after him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 avril 2011 - 08:08 .

[Tirigon]

ejoslin wrote...


Fenris is waiting for Denarius to attack.  However, try NOT going after Hadriana.  I believe he leaves you if you refuse to do so the second time he asks.  If you kill Hadriana, he has every reason to believe you have his back when Denarius comes after him.

That is a rather pathethic excuse, though.

I mean, he was fleeing and fighting for 3 years already, and he obviously did well up to now - so what exactly does he need Hawke for? Come on......


Sadly this is true for many companions. You even recruit isabella that way - the girl has been duelling and pirating all her life, even teaching a WARDEN her selfmade fighting style (possibly at least), and then she asks you to help her in a duel at night. That was insanely retarded.
For me it was fine since I didn´t intend to recruit her anyways, so I just ignored it until Act 2 and was rid of her, but still..... It was stupid.

[rolson00]

Caralampio wrote...

Sure you can stretch your mind to find an explanation, something in the "opposites attract each other" dept. But frankly. In any dictionary you can find, a rival is an enemy. An enemy hates you. But in DA2 rivals don't hate you. They don't leave you, they don't backstab you.  

In DA2, a rival is just a variety of friend. There are friend-friends, and there are rival-friends. A rival friend is someone whom you have offended repeatedly, belittled, done things he/she hates, and in general being in their eyes obnoxious. Yet, they still love you. They are even your very close "friends", just in a weird codependent way.
Hmm.

the pokemon games did the same thing red/blue remade into firered/leafgreen
your best friend gary is also your rival.

[ejoslin]

Tirigon wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Fenris is waiting for Denarius to attack.  However, try NOT going after Hadriana.  I believe he leaves you if you refuse to do so the second time he asks.  If you kill Hadriana, he has every reason to believe you have his back when Denarius comes after him.

That is a rather pathethic excuse, though.

I mean, he was fleeing and fighting for 3 years already, and he obviously did well up to now - so what exactly does he need Hawke for? Come on......


Sadly this is true for many companions. You even recruit isabella that way - the girl has been duelling and pirating all her life, even teaching a WARDEN her selfmade fighting style (possibly at least), and then she asks you to help her in a duel at night. That was insanely retarded.
For me it was fine since I didn´t intend to recruit her anyways, so I just ignored it until Act 2 and was rid of her, but still..... It was stupid.

Oh, I have issues with the time skips for many reasons, and that a few of the companions stick around doing nothing for years is one of them.   

Fenris says in a rivalry that he stuck around because he felt indebted to Hawke.  But 6 years IS a long, long time.  I think the story itself would have held up better if there were one year gaps instead of three year gaps.

But that really is off topic, isn't it.

[Dark83]

Fenris may say that, but really he just wants to lounge around a house filled with rich food and fine wine, especially since his (former) master isn't coming after him in there.

[MG800]

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris says in a rivalry that he stuck around because he felt indebted to Hawke.  But 6 years IS a long, long time.  I think the story itself would have held up better if there were one year gaps instead of three year gaps.

But that really is off topic, isn't it.

Maybe offtopic, but that's a one good idea. One year gap would make this game longer (if they're stubborn on the "10-years span"), and would fix some logical issues (like Fenris romance).
*sigh* Dreaming is leading nowhere...

Modifié par MG800, 13 avril 2011 - 09:07 .

[DocDoomII]

The only reason to have 'rivalry' is to have 2 potentially different romances with the same character.
They simply couldn't find a better way to call that end of the 'friendship' bar.

[Mecher3k]

Persephone wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

cpmd4 wrote...

It's way better than Origins, where I was so two-faced trying to please each individual character.

Now I can play the way I want and not fear losing important party members and losing out.

It's impossible to lose party members unless you are too stupid to use a thing called gifts. Oh wait...

Yes, the "Have a gift or two!" -> "Hmmm, you're hawt!" system in DAO had SO much depth and immersion. /Sarcasm

That was only needed if you really wanted the charcter to stay. You honestly fighting against having characters leave you when you stand for everything they are against?

Herp Derp.

[Tirigon]

Dark83 wrote...

Fenris may say that, but really he just wants to lounge around a house filled with rich food and fine wine, especially since his (former) master isn't coming after him in there.

And full with bodies, don´t forget that.

They were stilll there in Act 2. Was good for a lol 

[Persephone]

Mecher3k wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

cpmd4 wrote...

It's way better than Origins, where I was so two-faced trying to please each individual character.

Now I can play the way I want and not fear losing important party members and losing out.

It's impossible to lose party members unless you are too stupid to use a thing called gifts. Oh wait...

Yes, the "Have a gift or two!" -> "Hmmm, you're hawt!" system in DAO had SO much depth and immersion. /Sarcasm

That was only needed if you really wanted the charcter to stay. You honestly fighting against having characters leave you when you stand for everything they are against?

Herp Derp.

I expect my main char not to be punished for voicing her/his opinion. Had they gone the BG route with offering different party members of similar alignment in exchange for those who leave........fine. But they did not.

[DocDoomII]

Tirigon wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

Fenris may say that, but really he just wants to lounge around a house filled with rich food and fine wine, especially since his (former) master isn't coming after him in there.

And full with bodies, don´t forget that.

They were stilll there in Act 2. Was good for a lol 

I think that those body are actually part of the static and cannot be removed unless you recreate the rooms without them thus why they'll never go away.
Lazy level design is lazy.

[Miashi]

Persephone wrote...

I expect my main char not to be punished for voicing her/his opinion. Had they gone the BG route with offering different party members of similar alignment in exchange for those who leave........fine. But they did not.

Sounds like real life will bring you many dissapointments. What you say and do should have a consequence. Dragon Age 2 says : no matter what you do or say, people will stick to you. Just make sure you don't fling on both sides of the fence. Makes perfect sense.

Modifié par Miashi, 13 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[Tirigon]

Persephone wrote...

I expect my main char not to be punished for voicing her/his opinion. Had they gone the BG route with offering different party members of similar alignment in exchange for those who leave........fine. But they did not.

That´s a good point, I think.

It is a bit difficult. On the one hand, you want to have party members who have a personality and such instead of being mere paperdolls to fulfill your wishes, but on the other hand.... well, you DO want them to fulfill your every wish if not doing so would be a hindrance.

And I admit I am no different. Andraste´s ashes are a point where i generally wish i could mindcontrol Leliana, or, even better, convince her that the "evil" course of action is ok.....


i think Jade Empire did it best, where you could in the end bind your companion´s souls to you and thus force them to stay even though it´s against everything they stand for. Only time in a game where you could really feel like a big, mad, powerhungry ASSH*LE for once:devil::devil:

Modifié par Tirigon, 13 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[Persephone]

Miashi wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I expect my main char not to be punished for voicing her/his opinion. Had they gone the BG route with offering different party members of similar alignment in exchange for those who leave........fine. But they did not.

Sounds like real life will bring you many dissapointments. What you say and do should have a consequence. Dragon Age 2 says : no matter what you do or say, people will stick to you. Just make sure you don't fling on both sides of the fence. Makes perfect sense.

Not really, as I'm talking about a friggin' GAME. BG managed that balance just fine by offering enough party members for every alignment.

As for DAII, it has already been explained how and where your companions will draw the line.

[DocDoomII]

Tirigon wrote...

And I admit I am no different. Andraste´s ashes are a point where i generally wish i could mindcontrol Leliana, or, even better, convince her that the "evil" course of action is ok.....

gonna try in the next playthough, I heard that if you harden her and have very high approval you can convince her

[Tirigon]

DocDoomII wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

And I admit I am no different. Andraste´s ashes are a point where i generally wish i could mindcontrol Leliana, or, even better, convince her that the "evil" course of action is ok.....

gonna try in the next playthough, I heard that if you harden her and have very high approval you can convince her

Only in the camp though. If you take her with you, there is no dialogue before and her being dead after. I tried......

[Persephone]

Tirigon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I expect my main char not to be punished for voicing her/his opinion. Had they gone the BG route with offering different party members of similar alignment in exchange for those who leave........fine. But they did not.

That´s a good point, I think.

It is a bit difficult. On the one hand, you want to have party members who have a personality and such instead of being mere paperdolls to fulfill your wishes, but on the other hand.... well, you DO want them to fulfill your every wish if not doing so would be a hindrance.

Hey, I'm all for consequences in that regard. (Hence my loathing the "Awwwwwwww, did I do something bad? Here, have a pair of shoes!" -> "OMGZ, you're the bestest!" nonsense) But yes, it's hard to find the right balance there. I'm damn glad that I'm not working for Bioware.

But playing as an "evil" Warden sure punished you A LOT. (Unlike BG) Quests closing, people leaving, personal quests & romances being unavailable and characters not talking to you about much. (Companions)

[DocDoomII]

Persephone wrote...

Not really, as I'm talking about a friggin' GAME. BG managed that balance just fine by offering enough party members for every alignment.

As for DAII, it has already been explained how and where your companions will draw the line.

they weren't fully voiced
we even had a party of 6 at the time

in BG some NPC were even 'linked', like Khaled and Jaheira. You couldn't have one without the other (well, you could, but it was an exploit of zoning).

good ol' times...

[DocDoomII]

Tirigon wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

And I admit I am no different. Andraste´s ashes are a point where i generally wish i could mindcontrol Leliana, or, even better, convince her that the "evil" course of action is ok.....

gonna try in the next playthough, I heard that if you harden her and have very high approval you can convince her

Only in the camp though. If you take her with you, there is no dialogue before and her being dead after. I tried......

damn, that is retarded

[Tirigon]

Persephone wrote...

But playing as an "evil" Warden sure punished you A LOT. (Unlike BG) Quests closing, people leaving, personal quests & romances being unavailable and characters not talking to you about much. (Companions)

To be honest, I didn´t think so. (Except for the Ashes i mentioned already, of course). Companion interaction can well be achieved by "evil" characters, too, if only by deceiving them about your motifs and acting all holy in dialogue.
Besides, most stand with you. Alistair, for example, had no problem with my mage being quite a d!ck.

The bigger problem, imo, was actually FINDNG something bad to do. On account of you being the Warden you never could really f*ck someone over just for the heck of it, and OTOH even as the holy do-gooder you usually ended up stabbing a lot of people in the face.

[Eber]

DocDoomII wrote...

gonna try in the next playthough, I heard that if you harden her and have very high approval you can convince her

It's not approval you need it's coercion (intimidation) and what you convince her of is that if she tries she will die so actually you fool her!

Modifié par Eber, 13 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[Miashi]

Persephone wrote...

But playing as an "evil" Warden sure punished you A LOT. (Unlike BG) Quests closing, people leaving, personal quests & romances being unavailable and characters not talking to you about much. (Companions)

If you brought people like Leliana, Wynne and Alistair altogether to defile the ashes, I do not doubt so. But why would you honestly do that unless you specifically desire to destroy your relationship? Otherwise you still had ample leeway to maintain friendship albeit leaving a trail of disaster behind you.

[Scnew]

I see what Bioware was trying to do. A problem I had in DA:O is that if I wanted to play my Warden in a certain way, I'd never want to bring, say, Morrigan along because she would just think I'm soft and hate me. It's nice that I can now be pro-mage and still be able to use Fenris and get his character-specific quests and everything.

That said, it often still doesn't make sense. Being absolutely pro-Templar, hunting down every mage anyone asks me to find, shouldn't make Anders my 'rival'. It should make Anders my enemy. He shouldn't want my help with things, he shouldn't want to heal me, and he certainly shouldn't come along my mage-hunts. And the romance aspect of it really doesn't make sense. I had Fenris' rivalry maxed. I support mages all day every day. I took that elf girl as a slave. I yell at him all the time. I even offered to make a deal with the slavers coming to take him back to his master. And now I can ROMANCE him? What possible reason could there be that he'd be interested in me? Unless Fenris loves being treated like dirt, but then in that case he never would have left his original Master in the first place, would he?

[DocDoomII]

Eber wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

gonna try in the next playthough, I heard that if you harden her and have very high approval you can convince her

It's not approval you need it's coercion (intimidation) and what you convince her of is that if she tries she will die so actually you fool her!

so is it possible to convince her even if present on the scene?