20 réponses à ce sujet

[Squidmaster]

I just got my first access to HLAs, and my main character is a thief/mage.  I felt like my best choices right off were the spike trap and use any item.  Much to my dismay, it seems that use any item doesn't provide any sort of proficiency in weapons.  Is this intended?  I have read here and there about people equipping Carsomyr and such to go nuts, but with the hefty nonproficiency penalty I am not seeing it.

I would also like to know what items I should focus on with use any item to get great effects.

Thanks!

[morbidest2]

Are you using a small or solo party or a party of 6? In the former case you still have opportunities to add prof. pts. so anything goes. In the later case, it probably makes sense to stick with what your thief is  already good at (staffs? katanas?) for back stabbing. Since magic becomes more and more important as ToB goes on I personally would concentrate on gettingthe extra 6th,7th, and 8th level spells for a T/M before I worried about weapons. 

[Sparky The Barbarian]

UAI allows you to use items you normally couldn't equip your character with (like Casomyr, the Holy Avenger - usable only by Paladins), but it doesn't grant you proficiency in Two Handed Sword.

Likewise it will let you wear Full Plate as a thief, but won't remove the thieving skill penalty once you put it on. I rarely use it, but I usually play multi class F/M so I have access to most items to begin with.

[The Potty 1]

I wouldn't concentrate on weapons really, although carsomyr is useful to dispel protections, the sneak attack bonusses almost guarantee a hit, even if it isn't a backstab.

It does mean you can wear Valygar's armour, or the robe of the evil archmagi, the paladin bracers, the bards gloves, Black Razor, etc

[Jeff W]

Use any item is better with fighter/thieves, but still good with mage/thieves:

Vhailor's Helm, Helm of Balduran, etc
Harper Pin
Wonderous Gloves, Paladin's Bracers
Scarlet Ninja-To
Shield of Harmony
Jansen Adventure-Wear(if someone else uses Robe of Vecna)

[ussnorway]

Squidmaster wrote...
 I have read here and there about people equipping Carsomyr and such to go nuts, but with the hefty nonproficiency penalty I am not seeing it.

Are you sure it wasn't a bard? A tipical blade with Carsomyr will out damage any paladin because of the spin!
I agree that your traps and spells are where you should put the points... HAI will allow some nice defence items however.

[Squidmaster]

You could be right about that. I have the Paladin's bracers right now but they seem really crummy. 10hp? I use bracers AC3 on my guy normally.

[ussnorway]

Paladin's bracers can be upgraded but for my money it's tzu-zans bracers or wondrous gloves!

[Wierdo]

Gauntlets of Crushing: +4 to hit and +4 to damage! Normally limited to monks I think.

There are heaps of good helmets that thieves and thief-mages cannot wear. Helmets do not interfere with thieving or spell casting.

Shields

Magic items limited for use by individual NPCs, including mod NPCs. For example, Xan mod has an enhanced Moonblade; Iylos has an individualised ring that protects from time-stop (!). Both very nice items to get hold of.

Harper pin has already been mentioned - worth romancing Jaheira just to get this for your thief! Jaheira doesn't really need it and doesn't complain if another character uses it.

Fighter/thieves can benefit from weapons like Carosomyr AND take two-handed sword proficiency. Fighter/thieves and other non-mage thieves will benefit from access to all the mage-only items.

There are several druid weapons (clubs, staves) that could be used proficiently, and possibly for backstabs, by a thief.

Cleric and/or mage scrolls for thieves that are not spell casters.

The list is almost endless. Only limited by imagination really.

Modifié par Wierdo, 18 avril 2011 - 04:58 .

[Dante2377]

Squidmaster wrote...

You could be right about that. I have the Paladin's bracers right now but they seem really crummy. 10hp? I use bracers AC3 on my guy normally.

yes, but depending what you do with Bracers of Extraordinary Specialization (if you even go down that far into WK to get them), there aren't too many good bracer choices for armor-wearing warriors except for later in the game with Bracers of Blinding Strike, so an extra 10hp is better than an unused slot.

PS Gauntlets of crushing are usable by every glass except Kensai and Wizardslayer, but you have to be using your fists, so it's pretty much useless for anyone except monks.

[Squidmaster]

I gotcha. I have Keldorn using the Gauntlets of Dexterity right now. It's such a major upgrade for him that it's hard to imagine getting rid of them.

[silenceall]

Wierdo wrote...
There are several druid weapons (clubs, staves) that could be used proficiently, and possibly for backstabs, by a thief.

In order to be used for a successful backstab (i.e. get your damage multiplied), it has to be a weapon that a single-classed theif can normally use.  Therefore, although a thief could have proficiency in a weapon type (e.g. staff), not every weapon of that type (e.g. Staff of the Magi) can backstab, even after UAI.

[Wierdo]

silenceall wrote...

Wierdo wrote...
There are several druid weapons (clubs, staves) that could be used proficiently, and possibly for backstabs, by a thief.

In order to be used for a successful backstab (i.e. get your damage multiplied), it has to be a weapon that a single-classed theif can normally use.  Therefore, although a thief could have proficiency in a weapon type (e.g. staff), not every weapon of that type (e.g. Staff of the Magi) can backstab, even after UAI.

I believe it just has to be a weapon TYPE that single class thieves can use. I am pretty sure that I have seen the Staff of the Magi successfully used for a backstab in previous games. I look forward to testing the theory out soon in BG2, although Wierdo will have to find the items first as she has the Item Randomiser installed.

[Matuse]

Staff of the Magi cannot be used to backstab. It would make the Staff even more ridiculous than it already is (considering it makes the thief invisible, and able to continue backstabbing).

[Dante2377]

Wierdo wrote...

silenceall wrote...

Wierdo wrote...
There are several druid weapons (clubs, staves) that could be used proficiently, and possibly for backstabs, by a thief.

In order to be used for a successful backstab (i.e. get your damage multiplied), it has to be a weapon that a single-classed theif can normally use.  Therefore, although a thief could have proficiency in a weapon type (e.g. staff), not every weapon of that type (e.g. Staff of the Magi) can backstab, even after UAI.

I believe it just has to be a weapon TYPE that single class thieves can use. I am pretty sure that I have seen the Staff of the Magi successfully used for a backstab in previous games. I look forward to testing the theory out soon in BG2, although Wierdo will have to find the items first as she has the Item Randomiser installed.

No, the actual weapon has to be usable by a single-class thief without UAI to even be eligible for backstab.

There are some mods that change this (aTweaks, etc) where you can for example, make a fighter/thief eligible to backstab any weapon a fighter/thief can naturally use, etc. 

But in a vanilla game, he actual weapon has to be usable by a single-class thief without UAI to even be eligible for backstab.

[Wierdo]

Matuse wrote...

Staff of the Magi cannot be used to backstab. It would make the Staff even more ridiculous than it already is (considering it makes the thief invisible, and able to continue backstabbing).

Fair enough! My addled brain cells now tell me this is right as well, after thinking about previous games over a couple of days. I seem to remember having to make a choice when entering a combat: either hiding in shadows and using a shortsword to backstab, or going invisibly with the Staff of the Magi. 

+3 shortsword is much more practical anyway Staves have very slow weapon speeds, which makes them largely impractical for backstabbing (except perhaps for the Staff of Striking, which has such a large bonus to damage that it becomes worthwhile).

[Esajoram]

I used UAI to wear the normal purifier for 20% magic res + robe of vecna + balduran helm (at least before circlet of netheril) and it gives access to all potions, plan is to dual wield with carsomyr + purifier in the end on my bard

a very strong feature for sure (but so are the traps, and the silly magic flute is as well very good)

[HoonDing]

Eh? Dual-wielding Carsomyr and Purifier? This is not possible since 2nd edition D&D lacks the "monkey grip" feat, unless you're using some mod?

[Esajoram]

ehm crom fayer ofc not carsomyr a good amount of defensive properties and hitpower

Modifié par Esajoram, 27 avril 2011 - 08:43 .

[saros_shadow_follower]

In a non-tactical modded party game, your M/T protagonist would hardly make a difference even with UAI. Still, there are some good items you may wanna try with it:

The Harper Pin, which can be obtained from Jaheira's main quest, is a great item, usable with UAI - grants various bonuses/ resistances, and also permanent non-detection. Priceless for a F/T, and also very useful for a M/T.
Jansen's adventurewear, although possible to use with UAI, has no practical use for a M/T, while at the same time a F/T could greatly benefit from it.
Corthala Family Armor (in the original game there is a bug which makes spellcasting while wearing the armor possible, even though it's a chainmail).
Cernd's Cloak - works as a +1 protective cloak, however it can be used in conjuction with another protective item, like enchanted armor, ring of protection +1/+2/+3 or amulet of protection +1.
I think this had been fixed long time ago, but I remember killing Nalia in an unfixed unpatched game for her ring +2 (and 50% fire res bonus). It also can be used with another protective item, like Cernd's cloak.
Various potions, usable by fighters only, like the potion of Invulnerability for example.
Staff of the Woodlands +4 - one of the best examples why an UAI character has to be present. A druid - not so good.
There are some other shields which may be useful from time to time with UAI, like the Shield of Harmony or the Reflection shield.
Haer'dalis's short sword, Chaos, in the hands of a competent F/T or F/M/T, can be used to quickly slay tough opponents via dexterity drain. In the hands of a M/T, of course, the weapon looks far less useful.
The Purifier and Carsomyr are better left for the F/T or F/M/T, but still it may be a good idea to temporarily equip Carsomyr in order to help avoiding a dangerous spell/spell effect.

In short, UAI is a great ability with limitless possibilities, and it's only up to you to adjust it to your playing style.

[zendingo]

I recently played as a fighter/thief multi and used UAI to make this character near immune to any form of attack.

Weilding Carsomyr, Human Flesh armor, Ring of Gaxx, & a 10% magic resist amulet he achieved 90% magic resist in SoA. In ToB, he achieved 100% magic resist from 10% from the Tear of Bhaal at the end of SoA, and then replaced the 10% MR amulet with 5% from machine of Lum the Mad, and 5% from the cleric ring they get at lvl 25 or so.

Combine that with being able to cast spells like stoneskin, mirror image, protection from magic weapons, etc from scrolls (which you should stock up on for this character), and he really can't be touched.

With a mage/thief, you could use Robe of Vecna instead of Human Flesh so that your spell casting isn't disabled. You'd lose 10% MR with the switch, but that can be made up elsewhere. If you cast Tenser's Transormation, you can still be quite a beast in melee combat. Just try to pick up a profiency point in 2-handed swords.