114 réponses à ce sujet

[Captmorgan72]

I think it was once a part of the golden city, looted by one of the ancient magisters that tried to unsurp the Maker's throne. Like a piece of metal exposed to a magnet for a length of time, the pure lyrium artifact has been "magictized" in the presence of the Maker. Radiating with a tiny fraction of the Maker's power, the idol causes maddness with mortals who comes in contact with it's pure holy power. Bartrand's sanity is fractured almost immediately but Meredith with her faith and righteousness, takes longer to be affected. She however taps into the idol's power and like the story of Lot's wife in the Book of Genesis, Meredith was seared by holy power and turned into a statue of salt.

[Maria Caliban]

Having played ME 1 and ME 2, my only hope is that the writers know what it is.

[Elessara]

Somehow I'm thinking the power of the idol was anything but "holy" ... but that's just me.

[Ivers0803]

or maybe it just is a powerful peace of lyrium, not everything has to be complicated. Lyrium aids magic and powerful lyrium can use powerful magic.

[LadyBri]

Whether it is true or not, the use of the term idol makes me think that once upon a time someone worshipped it. Maybe, if some theories turn out to be true, such as the idea that a different kind of dwarf inhabited that thaig and were a magical people that piece of lyrium represented something sacred for them. Of course, that doesn't mean it is necessarily good because look at the effect it has on people. But, it's magic could also be the fact that it is a hunk of extremely potent lyrium. I'm sure there are also other great theories about what the idol could be.

And as Maria states above, whatever this idol is I just hope that the writers know what it is and will eventually share this information with us.

[primero holodon]

i think it's just a lyrium idol, and based off of bartrands particular brand of crazy it appears to carry the darkspawn corruption. I recall Tamlen mentioning singing after he was corrupted

Modifié par primero holodon, 13 avril 2011 - 02:46 .

[Conduit0]

Ivers0803 wrote...

or maybe it just is a powerful peace of lyrium, not everything has to be complicated. Lyrium aids magic and powerful lyrium can use powerful magic.

If lyrium could animate objects just like that, than golems would be running all over the place and no living people would need to be sacrificed to make them. So theres definitely something more to it than just, "really powerful lyrium". Also I have to disagree with it being from the golden city, red light is pretty much the universal symbol for "bad guy" in Bioware games, so whatever it is, its most certainly bad juju.

[TJPags]

Conduit0 wrote...

Ivers0803 wrote...

or maybe it just is a powerful peace of lyrium, not everything has to be complicated. Lyrium aids magic and powerful lyrium can use powerful magic.

If lyrium could animate objects just like that, than golems would be running all over the place and no living people would need to be sacrificed to make them. So theres definitely something more to it than just, "really powerful lyrium". Also I have to disagree with it being from the golden city, red light is pretty much the universal symbol for "bad guy" in Bioware games, so whatever it is, its most certainly bad juju.

Oh, I don't know, I'm not so sure golems are so easy to make.  And even they need some kind of control, usually in the form of a rod.  Remember, golems have no sense of identity - Shale is an exception.

I agree with the "powerful piece of lyrium" idea.  Lyrium does odd things . . .it makes people sick - see the dwarf in the commons of Orzamar who makes things with it.  See Templars as they age.  Think of all the ways and times the game tells us raw lyrium is dangerous.

So, raw lyrium, powerful source of nutsiness, makes Meredith more paranoid then she was before, and her will empowers it.  Works for me.

[Elessara]

It wasn't raw lyrium though. It had obviously been worked into the idol shape which means it was probably refined. Ignoring the crafting material "raw lyrium" which always makes me shake my head, raw lyrium is supposed to be fatal to all but dwarves. So I'm assuming it's refined lyrium shaped into the idol form. Other than that ... *shrug*

[Conduit0]

TJPags wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Ivers0803 wrote...

or maybe it just is a powerful peace of lyrium, not everything has to be complicated. Lyrium aids magic and powerful lyrium can use powerful magic.

If lyrium could animate objects just like that, than golems would be running all over the place and no living people would need to be sacrificed to make them. So theres definitely something more to it than just, "really powerful lyrium". Also I have to disagree with it being from the golden city, red light is pretty much the universal symbol for "bad guy" in Bioware games, so whatever it is, its most certainly bad juju.

Oh, I don't know, I'm not so sure golems are so easy to make.  And even they need some kind of control, usually in the form of a rod.  Remember, golems have no sense of identity - Shale is an exception.

I agree with the "powerful piece of lyrium" idea.  Lyrium does odd things . . .it makes people sick - see the dwarf in the commons of Orzamar who makes things with it.  See Templars as they age.  Think of all the ways and times the game tells us raw lyrium is dangerous.

So, raw lyrium, powerful source of nutsiness, makes Meredith more paranoid then she was before, and her will empowers it.  Works for me.

Erm.

The point< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> you

Meredith transforms the statues in the Gallows courtyard into golems using nothing more than the power of the idol. According to what we know from Caridan, that should be impossible, since it requires sacrificing a living person and infusing their soul into the golem to animate it.  Also lyrium sickness seems to specificly be a form of brain damage, all the lyrium addled people we've seen so far were not so much crazy as they were increasingly mentally deficient. Also lyrium doesn't cause hauntings like we see in Varric's act 3 quest, if it did, places like mage circles and Orzammar would make the "The Haunting" movies look like an episode of "Casper the Friendly Ghost".

So no, the idea that the idol is just an unusually strong hunk of lyrium, just doesn't fly.

[Elessara]

Are those statues technically golems though? Or just animated statues? I'm pretty sure there's a difference. Well obviously animated statues have no souls infusing them.

[Lewie]

The idol is made of something unknown. Evil, no less. If the chantry controls the lyrium still with the dwarves? Even the statues in the chantry are like those when you fight Meredith. It seems like the lyrium has changed to sway even a dwarf, who would otherwise be immune. Yet why don't the mages crave it? or the templars? It has no call or effect on them. The major effects are Anders, Meredith and Bartrand. Vengeance, power and gold. It brought out their worst side.

Anders, the deep roads, the lyrium idol is my take on it. I can't help thinking thats where vengenance came from. Justice was too strong and too good a spirit to be 'changed' because someone was angry.

When Anders destroyed the chantry and everyone around, didn't give any reason except the circle had failed i agreed but the magic he used was maybe similar to Merediths sword. Do as i say or die. See as i see or die. Fanatical solutions.

Anders was upset because he almost killed one mage. Then he wipes out a district?

Modifié par louise101, 13 avril 2011 - 03:41 .

[Avilia]

Perhaps it was lyrium originally but has become corrupted somehow - hence the red colour. Either by absorbing darkspawn taint, old god energy, the emotions and such of those around it.

Hmm, that sounds a little metaphysical but hopefully makes sense.

I suppose I mean if it was worshipped hard enough it might start to like it. Or it could contain the trapped soul of an old god.

Modifié par Avilia, 13 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[Ieolus]

Where in the game did it say Anders was affected by the idol?

[Darkhour]

Captmorgan72 wrote...

I think it was once a part of the golden city, looted by one of the ancient magisters that tried to unsurp the Maker's throne. Like a piece of metal exposed to a magnet for a length of time, the pure lyrium artifact has been "magictized" in the presence of the Maker. Radiating with a tiny fraction of the Maker's power, the idol causes maddness with mortals who comes in contact with it's pure holy power. Bartrand's sanity is fractured almost immediately but Meredith with her faith and righteousness, takes longer to be affected. She however taps into the idol's power and like the story of Lot's wife in the Book of Genesis, Meredith was seared by holy power and turned into a statue of salt.

Lyrium infused with Forgotten Ones' mojo.

[Wedger]

Captmorgan72 - I had that almost exact same thought. Especially as it sings to Bartrand and Varric, much as the Archdemon/taint sings to the darkspawn and old Wardens. The Darkspawn/tainted were created when the Golden City was invaded... or so the Chantry teaches...

Wonder why Hawke was immune? Hawke touches the idol, but hears no song... and does not go mad

[Fruit of the Doom]

A MacGuffin.

[Girl on a Rock]

Conduit0 wrote...

Erm.

The point< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> you

Meredith transforms the statues in the Gallows courtyard into golems using nothing more than the power of the idol. According to what we know from Caridan, that should be impossible, since it requires sacrificing a living person and infusing their soul into the golem to animate it.  Also lyrium sickness seems to specificly be a form of brain damage, all the lyrium addled people we've seen so far were not so much crazy as they were increasingly mentally deficient. Also lyrium doesn't cause hauntings like we see in Varric's act 3 quest, if it did, places like mage circles and Orzammar would make the "The Haunting" movies look like an episode of "Casper the Friendly Ghost".

So no, the idea that the idol is just an unusually strong hunk of lyrium, just doesn't fly.

I don't have any strong opinions about what the idol is, but isn't lyrium in some way connected to a weakening of the veil? I mean, granted, the Circles aren't haunted, but it seems like the lyrium used in the Circles is a different type. I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into the blue lyrium vs. red lyrium difference, but it's a possibility. If that's the case, maybe the difference between the red lyrium and the blue lyrium is the difference between Meredith and say, Sandal. Or as a better contrast, Bartrand and Sandal. Although maybe personality has something to do with it. Sandal sees that old lady by the foot of his bed, and sometimes says pretty crazy things, too - so maybe a person's temperament and innate nature have something to do with the way the lyrium affects their minds. We know Sandal can make the "boom" runes, but then he says that he didn't freeze the ogre in the Deep Roads with the rune, right? Am I remembering correctly? I dunno, it's late!

I really just thought that the idol was an extraordinarily potent hunk of lyrium crafted into an idoly form. Lyrium is what gives the templars their powers, yes? So extended exposure to such a large quantity of perhaps very concentrated lyrium may have weakened the veil in Fenris' the DeLauncets' the Harrimans' Bartrand's mansion, and also allowed Meredith to animate those statues. You do have a good point about the golems, but maybe the lyrium worked in a different way. Golems are built to last, and maybe that's why you need a soul to animate it - maybe the statues would have eventually run out of juice or just fallen to pieces if Meredith had withdrawn her will/mana/what have you from them? 

So I guess in short - I have no real idea, but am interested! 

[PlumPaul93]

something that gave the writers an excuse to have meredith and bartrand be crazy and give an end game boss

[Fruit of the Doom]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

something that gave the writers an excuse to have meredith and bartrand be crazy and give an end game boss

AKA

A MacGuffin.

[PantheraOnca]

Elessara wrote...

Are those statues technically golems though? Or just animated statues? I'm pretty sure there's a difference. Well obviously animated statues have no souls infusing them.

You assume that the tevinters didn't so some soul infusing on those statues in the first place. maybe they were trying to replicate the golem making process in kirkwall and thats what all the sacrifices were for?

I don't actually think that, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was latent magic that had been applied to the statues that the idol.meredith just activated.

[stobie]

I have no idea, but it's certainly gaudy. Did anyone else think it was going to turn around somehow and give some meaning to that glaring closeup of your hand touching the thing? There was practically Jaws music, shiny lights - this MEANS something... and then it didn't. I fully expected to learn I had an ancient Dwarven spirit in me the whole time. When it was turned into a pink sword, I was definitely left with 'huh?'

[Lewie]

Darkhour wrote...

Captmorgan72 wrote...

I think it was once a part of the golden city, looted by one of the ancient magisters that tried to unsurp the Maker's throne. Like a piece of metal exposed to a magnet for a length of time, the pure lyrium artifact has been "magictized" in the presence of the Maker. Radiating with a tiny fraction of the Maker's power, the idol causes maddness with mortals who comes in contact with it's pure holy power. Bartrand's sanity is fractured almost immediately but Meredith with her faith and righteousness, takes longer to be affected. She however taps into the idol's power and like the story of Lot's wife in the Book of Genesis, Meredith was seared by holy power and turned into a statue of salt.

Lyrium infused with Forgotten Ones' mojo.

I have to say it, what a crock of ****.   This is Kirkwall, thin veil and every possible problem confined within. Meredith sat in her room playing cards with a demon. If it caused madness with mortals then hawke, varric even would have went do lally. Had to edit, varric only went mad back in that house, he gave hawke a piece which sandal runed.

Modifié par louise101, 13 avril 2011 - 05:33 .