114 réponses à ce sujet

[jmbrosendo]

Definitely agree with the singing part.

Even Justice is heavily drawn to the Lyrium singing.
It's all connected somehow, the Old Gods, The Maker, Darkspawn, and song.

Lol, that reminds me of Macross, sing, sing, and save the world.

[Girl on a Rock]

Brockololly wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

primero holodon wrote...

i think it's just a lyrium idol, and based off of bartrands particular brand of crazy it appears to carry the darkspawn corruption. I recall Tamlen mentioning singing after he was corrupted

All lyrium sings. It sings to dwarves and spirits.
The Archdemons sing to the darkspawn.
People are expected to sing to the Maker.

'Singing' has some significance in the setting, but it's not clear what it is.

Dragon Age 3 is a musical, with Kinect controlled dancing/combat sequences. Defeat Flemeth through the power of song and dance!

I needs a duet between Sten of the Beresaad and the Arishok. NEEDS IT.

[Maria Caliban]

In Exile wrote...

Johun wrote...
Drew out his greed? I don't think torturing jhis employees and making them eat lyrium is what I'd call greedy.

If you mean it made him abandon Varric and Hawke in the Primordial Thaig, I'm pretty sure he planned to do that long before he ever came in contact with the idol.

Looking at it from your perspective I suppose it makes more sense, but that just makes the idol even more of a ridiculous plot device.

The idol would have worked fine if it functioned as you suggested. Sadly, it functions as Johun suggests, and can turn greedy bastards into foaming-at-the-mouth butchers.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Johun wrote...
Drew out his greed? I don't think torturing jhis employees and making them eat lyrium is what I'd call greedy.

If you mean it made him abandon Varric and Hawke in the Primordial Thaig, I'm pretty sure he planned to do that long before he ever came in contact with the idol.

Looking at it from your perspective I suppose it makes more sense, but that just makes the idol even more of a ridiculous plot device.

The idol would have worked fine if it functioned as you suggested. Sadly, it functions as Johun suggests, and can turn greedy bastards into foaming-at-the-mouth butchers.

I'm not sure about this, did the foaming at the mouth butchery start before or after Bartrand sold the idol?
Perhaps it does function to bring out the darker aspects of personality, but it's also like an addiction, so being parted with it drove Bartrand completely off the edge.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 avril 2011 - 06:04 .

[Rockpopple]

Probably something from before the Dwarves started worshipping Paragons. Maybe they worshipped the Old Gods and made dealies like the idol. Maybe Tevinter's got a whole mess of them lying around... tho Fenris never mentioned anything.

It was made of Lyrium, which leads me to believe a Dwarf probably forged it. Anything else, who ca say?

[Xewaka]

A relic from forgotten times best left untouched.

[PantheraOnca]

It is a note of the lyrium etched singing bloodsong of blood. bloodsing. Which is really just another name for the maker.

[sortedkaos]

JesterPsychotica wrote...

If I recall correctly, the sentient Broodmother from awakening also says that the "singing" stopped after she was made sentient and the fact that it stopped is what made her crazy. Bartrand also becomes desperate to hear "singing" again, and becomes destructive and commits acts of depravity and violence in hopes that it will appease this "voice".

I am wondering if the Lyrium Idol has some connection or is some kind of reciever/emitter ("radio") to the Archdemon's "hive mind".

Edit: with the connection to singing and Idols, I couldn't help but making "American Idol" jokes when thinking of the "Lyrium Idol".

The singing that the broodmother refers is the call of the old gods to the darkspawn (or calling the tevinter magisters, them being the supposed first darkspawn), atleast that was my interpretation.  I figured that when the architect severed the old gods' will on her she was driven mad in the face of her own will.

I did also assume that the singing Bartrand and Varick heard was the same song the broodmother refers to, based off of the assumption that the clues in the ancient thaig was some evidence that the dwarves there worshipped the old gods in some way, and the idol is connected in some way to the old gods.

Modifié par sortedkaos, 13 avril 2011 - 09:14 .

[Obadiah]

sortedkaos wrote...
...
I did also assume that the singing Bartrand and Varick heard was the same song the broodmother refers to, based off of the assumption that the clues in the ancient thaig was some evidence that the dwarves there worshipped the old gods in some way, and the idol is connected in some way to the old gods.

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but I figured it was something related to the singing that Justice hears from the Lyrium ring in Awakenings.

[Ivers0803]

Maybe the singing is because of lyriums powerfull connections to the fade and magic, a better question is what lyrium is and how it does what it does. mana comes from the fade and lyrium potions give more mana so......

[Ivers0803]

Conduit0 wrote...

Ivers0803 wrote...

or maybe it just is a powerful peace of lyrium, not everything has to be complicated. Lyrium aids magic and powerful lyrium can use powerful magic.

If lyrium could animate objects just like that, than golems would be running all over the place and no living people would need to be sacrificed to make them. So theres definitely something more to it than just, "really powerful lyrium". Also I have to disagree with it being from the golden city, red light is pretty much the universal symbol for "bad guy" in Bioware games, so whatever it is, its most certainly bad juju.

the statues may not be golems they could be possesed by spirints summoned by the lyrium

[scpulley]

What was the idol? A cheap plot device to give reason to Meridith being insane to help the templars seem more likable to the fans. Outside of that, I see no other info of note on the whole business except maybe they are setting up the dwarfs as having been former slaves to some sort of lyrium god before they rebelled and became what the more modern dwarfs know with their paragon gods. Perhaps the first paragons were actually the rebels that helped earn their freedom?

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
The idol would have worked fine if it functioned as you suggested. Sadly, it functions as Johun suggests, and can turn greedy bastards into foaming-at-the-mouth butchers.

That was my initialr reading of it. It 'finds' a host and exploits their desires, fears etc. and exagerrates them. With Bartrand I thought it was greed, and it ate at him the moment he held it. But I attributed his psychic break to him not being able to handle the strain, whereas I read Meredith as being able to keep her grip, just enough, so that she became a mockery of herself.

[In Exile]

ETA:

Dwarves did imprison dragons... maybe the abandoned Thaig ties more closely to the darkspawn tha we think? After all, the darkspawn burrowed to find an old god and the Blight hit the Deep Roads before exploding out of the ground.

If we ignore the Chantry for a moment, perhaps (like with the Flesh golems) the Imperium and dwarves teamed up to use blood-magic to breach the Golden City, and the abandoned Thaig tied into that, hence the corrupted lyrium.

[Miashi]

Was always under the impression that the idol came from Eternia. Pretty sure I saw Meredith hold her sword in the air and say "For the Honor of Greyskull!" to turn into She'Ra. Still waiting to see that horse though.

Modifié par Miashi, 13 avril 2011 - 10:00 .

[Blacklash93]

Elessara wrote...

Somehow I'm thinking the power of the idol was anything but "holy" ... but that's just me.

It could be like Bioware's usual Cthulhu schtick. A noise that causes insanity.

It's not that it's evil (sometimes), but the mind just can't handle it and resorts to insanity and worship to make sense of it. A force that isn't willed, but just is.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 13 avril 2011 - 10:06 .

[Medhia Nox]

The Idol was a useless, unnecessary magical plot device that made the story even more trite than it already was.

The story of Hawke could have been interesting on its own.

The story of Kirkwall could have been interesting on its own.

The story of the rising animosity between mages and Chantry could have been interesting on its own.

====

A story does not need inane magical devices to make them "fantasy". I cannot stand using magic for every single thing. Magic did this - magic did that. It's NOT a staple of good fantasy - it's a staple of lazy fantasy.

Making Meredith a "slave to lyrium" totally undermines her accountability for the terrible things she's done. Even if you can argue she was harsh before the lyrium sword - we only ever really meet the lyrium-addled Meredith. We never know the woman before "magic takes over". (I have a similar problem with Anders).

Lyrium idols - and spirits - are NOT the "One Ring" which was ultimately a metaphor and ultimately didn't matter AT ALL as an item.

A glut of magic does not an interesting fantasy world make.

[Dante Angelo]

I honestly think the idol was more than a useless plot tool.What it was I have no idea

[sortedkaos]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The Idol was a useless, unnecessary magical plot device that made the story even more trite than it already was.

The story of Hawke could have been interesting on its own.

The story of Kirkwall could have been interesting on its own.

The story of the rising animosity between mages and Chantry could have been interesting on its own.

====

A story does not need inane magical devices to make them "fantasy". I cannot stand using magic for every single thing. Magic did this - magic did that. It's NOT a staple of good fantasy - it's a staple of lazy fantasy.

Making Meredith a "slave to lyrium" totally undermines her accountability for the terrible things she's done. Even if you can argue she was harsh before the lyrium sword - we only ever really meet the lyrium-addled Meredith. We never know the woman before "magic takes over". (I have a similar problem with Anders).

Lyrium idols - and spirits - are NOT the "One Ring" which was ultimately a metaphor and ultimately didn't matter AT ALL as an item.

A glut of magic does not an interesting fantasy world make.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you if the story of the idol ends with Meredith turning into a statue.  However, the impression I got was that the story of the idol is not over, and the importance is more tied with the idol's origin, rather than the item iteself.  Although, I could just be too quick to defend one of the few things I still remains perplexing and interesting to me following act III.

[Johun]

In Exile wrote...

ETA:

Dwarves did imprison dragons... maybe the abandoned Thaig ties more closely to the darkspawn tha we think? After all, the darkspawn burrowed to find an old god and the Blight hit the Deep Roads before exploding out of the ground.

You bring up a good point about dwarves imprisoning dragons.

The
dragon in the Orzammar throne room does stand out from the others.
Binding a creatuture in order to imprison it seems to be reserved for
demons and spirits, I would not think it should be possible for living
creatures.

Dragons always seemed like just large and powerful animals to me, although
they do seem to have many magical qualities. Dragon's blood apparently
carries genetic memories if drinked and can be used for enchanting,
dragonbone is more suspectiple to enchantments... I'm sure there's more.

In Exile wrote...



If
we ignore the Chantry for a moment, perhaps (like with the Flesh
golems) the Imperium and dwarves teamed up to use blood-magic to breach
the Golden City, and the abandoned Thaig tied into that, hence the
corrupted lyrium.

Ever since I played the Golems of Amgarrak I've speculated that the darkspawn may very well have been the result of an experiment similair to the flesh golems/the harvester at Amgarrak.

In the end we see that the Harvester is able to reproduce, much like the Darkspawn. Darkspawn are humanoid though, perhaps they were a result of an experiment to bind a fade spirit to a living host? This normally produces abominations but binding a fade spirit to a dead host usually produces undead so they probably had a way around that.

Ignoring the Chantry even further, it may not have been an attempt to enter the Black City at all, that may or may not be allegory. It may simply be a creation myth, perhaps it was always the Black City. IIRC most historical records were destroyed in the First Blight but I'm not entirely sure.

Obviously something happened to cause the First Blight, but from what we've seen, it doesn't seem like the Darkspawn and the Fade have any kind of connection with each other.

[Bryy_Miller]

I think it's foreshadowing for DA3.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

I think it was what Agmarack was trying to recreate, the power of a god of life and death. Meredith gives life to the unliving statues and Bartrand has everyone killed by demons.

[Obadiah]

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

I think it was what Agmarack was trying to recreate, the power of a god of life and death. Meredith gives life to the unliving statues and Bartrand has everyone killed by demons.

Did she? I thought those were deactivated golems.

[Sledge454]

Blacklash93 wrote...
It could be like Bioware's usual Cthulhu schtick. A noise that causes insanity.

Pray that the red lyrium eats you first?