141 réponses à ce sujet

[Heather Cline]

I've been playing games since I was five back on the original Atari and then NES systems and even the original Apple II computer with Oregon Trail. My love of gaming developed out of my love for anime/cartoons. I started playing Oregon Trail in elementary school, my brothers friends had an Atari and I was wondering what it was. I was watching I think my little pony or transformers or speed racer, something like that at the time and then they came in to play the Atari. I got angry and went to tell my mom, she told me it was their turn but my show wasn't over.

I was forced to watch them play and I got dragged in. They let me play and I was soon beating my brother at this boxing game. I didn't think much of it until a few years later we got an NES and out came the games like Mario and Zelda and Final Fantasy. Games based off of anime or anime like characters. Once I made the connection I became a video game fanatic/addict. I hogged the NES for hours on end kicking anyone butt who tried to challenge me to a game in Mario or Duck Hunt or other games similar to that.

As the years progressed and I grew up I then got my next system, a sega genesis and then a super nintendo. I had by then graduated to purely RPG's with the occasional fighter game or action adventure game mixed in. I wasn't a big button masher and it showed cause I got beat by my male friends who were much better at them than me. Still I persevered and continued on gaming. I got many different titles for the systems then when the Playstation came out I traded in all my old games which I had beaten time and time again for the new system with the new games. By that time I was in highschool working a part time job able to buy myself stuff. I loved gaming, and anime and I had a huge collection by the time I was out of highschool. I went on to college, getting myself a Dreamcast, PS2, and Gamecube. More games would follow until I got my 360. I then kept all 4 systems and played the hell out of the games. Eventually I had to move and so I sold off my PS2, Gamecube and Dreamcast. I had I think like over 600 games, I can't remember but I had a lot.

Some of the games I can recall were Persona 3 and 4, Final Fantasy X, X-2, and XII. Breath of Fire 1-5, Final Fantasy 1/4/6/7-9, FF Tactics, FF Origins. Street Fighter, Sword of Vermillion, Blood Rayne, Dark Cloud 1 and 2, Parasite Eve 1 and 2, Legend of the Dragoon, NWN, WoW, Diablo, Warcraft 3, Illusion of Gaia, Lufia 1 and 2, Secret of Mana, Legend of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Phantasy Star 1-4 the originals, Phantasy Star Universe, Phantasy Star Universe Ambition of the Illuminus, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Xenosaga 1-3, Xenogears, Thousand Arms, Legend of Zelda, Zelda Ocarina of Time, Zelda Links Awakening, Zelda for the SNES, Zelda 4 swords, Viewtiful Joe 1 and 2, Civilization, Civilization 3, Civilization Revolution, Civilization Call to Power, Disgaea 1 and 2, Artonelico 1 and 2, Phantom Brave, Atelier Iris 1-3, Mana Khemia Alchemists of Al-Revis, Rhapsody™: A Musical Adventure, Soul Nomad™ & the World Eaters, GrimGrimoire, Makai Kingdom, LaPucelle Tactics, Lunar and Lunar 2 eternal blue, Vagrant Story, Grandia 1-3, Grandia Xtreme, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Destiny, Dragon Quest 8, Front Mission 4, Wild Arms 1-5.

All that from off the top of my head. I'm a gamer, I'm a girl, and I like to pick female avatars if I can. Though I can play as a male avatar if I'm locked into it, doesn't bother me one bit. I enjoy a game for it's story and entertainment value. I was brought up on video games, my mother and brother encouraged me to play them. Kept me out of their hair I guess. Anyways, I'm not one for dolls, or playing dress up. Give me a sweat shirt, pair of jeans, socks and a bottle of sprite and a video game and I'm set.

I wasn't raised to be like every other girl out there. I was raised to be me and that's exactly who I am. Me, an oddball, a geek, a girl, a nut and just proud of who and what I am.

[Siansonea]

[insert wall of text about 'what kind of woman I am' that no one cares about here]

Women are just female humans. We can like video games just like male humans can. I have a feeling more women would embrace games like Mass Effect if there was a strategic initiative to market the game to us. If I had to rely on BioWare's marketing, I would have had zero interest in playing some random space game with some jock dude protagonist. But because I have male gamer friends who showed me how awesome the game is, how varied the player character can be, and how said character is actually present in the cutscenes, I became a fan. What kind of women play these games? Ones that have HEARD of them foremost, and ones who know more than what the commercials show us about them.

[Eradyn]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

"What kind of women play these games"? Those who enjoy them - just like the men.

Best and most accurate answer. +1 internet for you. Moving along now...

If I save up the points, can I eventually trade them in for a cookie?

Regular cookies are 1 point. Garrus-shaped cookies are over 9000.

Siansonea II wrote...

[insert wall of text about 'what kind of woman I am' that no one cares about here]

Women are just female humans. We can like video games just like male humans can. I have a feeling more women would embrace games like Mass Effect if there was a strategic initiative to market the game to us. If I had to rely on BioWare's marketing, I would have had zero interest in playing some random space game with some jock dude protagonist. But because I have male gamer friends who showed me how awesome the game is, how varied the player character can be, and how said character is actually present in the cutscenes, I became a fan. What kind of women play these games? Ones that have HEARD of them foremost, and ones who know more than what the commercials show us about them.

This.  A million times this and especially the bolded portion.

[Volus Warlord]

Siansonea II wrote...

[insert wall of text about 'what kind of woman I am' that no one cares about here]

Women are just female humans. We can like video games just like male humans can. I have a feeling more women would embrace games like Mass Effect if there was a strategic initiative to market the game to us. If I had to rely on BioWare's marketing, I would have had zero interest in playing some random space game with some jock dude protagonist. But because I have male gamer friends who showed me how awesome the game is, how varied the player character can be, and how said character is actually present in the cutscenes, I became a fan. What kind of women play these games? Ones that have HEARD of them foremost, and ones who know more than what the commercials show us about them.

Ah no! Madness! Just...cannot believe your lack of womanlike attitudes and behavior.

As a disclaimer, I would like to note that I am nothing that could be confused with "normal," whatever the hell that is. Brutal honesty incoming:

But the ladygamers have a tendency to freak me out a bit. They make me uncomfortable. They go, "did you play ME2?" and I'm go "yeah" and they go "on my male playthroughs, I romanced Jack. Which did you go after?" and then I just go.. huh? It's awkwardness overwhelming. And that's without the gay or bi nonsense!

You women are not allowed to share some of my vices-in this case, a ruthlessly violent game chock full of sexual content. If you do, you'd have an idea of the horrid things I do and say when you are not around. I don't ask what you ladies do when us men are not around and I do not care to know-I am not curious in any way, shape, or form.   Despite how abundantly obvious my thought process is, I prefer to think you do not know it because I sure as hell do not understand your thought process. So off! Leave it alone! 

[Carfax]

Heather Cline wrote...

I wasn't raised to be like every other girl out there. I was raised to be me and that's exactly who I am. Me, an oddball, a geek, a girl, a nut and just proud of who and what I am.

Thank you for being so candid

But I must say, I didn't expect this thread to provoke this much of a response.  It seems women here think that I'm attacking them for being weird and unnatural or some thing

I suppose I should clarify a few things.  Throughout this thread, I wanted to find out:

1)  What percentage of Bioware's consumer base is female

2)  Why Bioware doesn't actively market towards female gamers, despite catering to them more than most other developers serious games.

3)  What percentage of the overall female gaming demographic constitutes SERIOUS and not casual gamers.

[Ashira Shepard]

jellobell wrote...

Carfax wrote...

Neither male or female gamers would want to see a muscular FemHawke I'm certain..

*raises hand* I would. I want my warrior Femhawke to look like she's a warrior, like my Femshep looks like she's a soldier. 

I second this.

There are two characters I have, both are women, both are the same species. One is a warrior, the other a priestess.

I'll give you one guess which one plays the role of "amazonian beauty."

This is where game designers need to make little tweaks to customization. Playing a mage? Lithe and physically weak. Rogue? Also lithe but agile. Warrior? Muscular and strong. There should be a noted difference between someone who runs around in full plate armour swinging a big sword and someone who runs around in robes poking people with sticks (before setting them on fire.)

[Carfax]

rynluna wrote...

What are these degrees?  Why is it so hard to believe she's capable considering the fantasy setting the game is in?  If this game were a simulator or based on actual events from the past, then your argument might have some weight. 

So if FemHawke was strong enough to lift an Ogre, knock out dragons with a single punch, and could fly and shoot laser beams out of her eyes, that would be alright with you?

It being a "fantasy" game and all... 

The point is, even fantasy Worlds are grounded in some level of reality. 

You have said the same thing in past threads that LadyHawke wasn't capable and you are doing it here.  Seems like you have a bit of tunnel vision.

I said she didn't "look" capable, and she doesn't.  FemHawke and DudeHawke are supposed to be the same person, yet DudeHawke looks and sounds like he's 30 something, while FemHawke looks and sounds like she's in her early 20s.

Why Bioware decided to go this route, I have no idea, but the disparity between them is striking to me.

[Eradyn]

Carfax wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I wasn't raised to be like every other girl out there. I was raised to be me and that's exactly who I am. Me, an oddball, a geek, a girl, a nut and just proud of who and what I am.

Thank you for being so candid

But I must say, I didn't expect this thread to provoke this much of a response.  It seems women here think that I'm attacking them for being weird and unnatural or some thing

I suppose I should clarify a few things.  Throughout this thread, I wanted to find out:

1)  What percentage of Bioware's consumer base is female

That would be for BW to answer.  That requires data mining on Bioware's part and I don't believe they have ever pursued such a study.

2)  Why Bioware doesn't actively market towards female gamers, despite catering to them more than most other developers serious games.

Only BW can truly answer that.  Anyone here can only speculate at best.  I side with those who state "cowardice."  Once companies reach a certain size, they seem to become less willing to take "risks," even if a "risk" is something as mundane as including a screenshot of a female Shepard.  Of course, they say it's to cut down on confusion.  Oh, noes, the chaos that would create! Men everywhere would explode from the confusion if marketing did that since obviously mens' brains are unable to handle this disparity! /sarcasm  (Seriously, that's downright insulting BW.)

3)  What percentage of the overall female gaming demographic constitutes SERIOUS and not casual gamers.

First everyone needs to settle on a definition of "serious" and "casual" gamers.  So far, only opinions abound as to what constitutes which.  Then, once you have those terms definitively defined, you need a large, reliable sample size to poll.  And all of this would only be useful and reliable for the time at which the survey was taken.

[Fishy]

It's not just a video game thing.Do you know many woman that want to become plumber?
It's not because it's made for 'male' .

Modifié par Suprez30, 13 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[Dominus]

 The Average Forumgoer:




Carfax:

Women are just female humans. We can like video games just like male humans can. 

That about sums it up. There will always be tendencies one way or another, but an individual has their own choice - gender influence can only go so far.

Modifié par DominusVita, 13 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[Eradyn]

Suprez30 wrote...

It's not just a video game thing.Do you know many woman that want to become plumber?

Nope, but I've never met a man who wanted to become a plumber, either.  I don't think plumbing is high on many individual's list of career choices.

[naughty99]

Suprez30 wrote...

It's not just a video game thing.Do you know many woman that want to become plumber?

I don't know any men that dream of becoming plumbers either

[Wicked 702]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

jellobell wrote...

Carfax wrote...

Neither male or female gamers would want to see a muscular FemHawke I'm certain..

*raises hand* I would. I want my warrior Femhawke to look like she's a warrior, like my Femshep looks like she's a soldier. 

Me too.

You shall henceforth be known as Michelle Rodriguez! It's not an impossible idea.

[jellobell]

Eradyn wrote...

Of course, they say it's to cut down on confusion.  Oh, noes, the chaos that would create! Men everywhere would explode from the confusion if marketing did that since obviously mens' brains are unable to handle this disparity! /sarcasm  (Seriously, that's downright insulting BW.)

 Yeah, even if it's just a picture of both MCs on the front of the box and on the back  of the box it says "CREATE YOUR OWN CHARACTER" I think that'll be sufficent to cut down on confusion.

[Carfax]

Eradyn wrote...

Only BW can truly answer that.  Anyone here can only speculate at best.  I side with those who state "cowardice."  Once companies reach a certain size, they seem to become less willing to take "risks," even if a "risk" is something as mundane as including a screenshot of a female Shepard.  Of course, they say it's to cut down on confusion.  Oh, noes, the chaos that would create! Men everywhere would explode from the confusion if marketing did that since obviously mens' brains are unable to handle this disparity! /sarcasm  (Seriously, that's downright insulting BW.)

But cowardice implies that the amount of female consumers is comparatively small to that of male consumers, otherwise they wouldn't act in that manner because female gamers would make up for the amount of male gamers that they would lose by marketing towards women.....assuming it's true.

It seems axiomatic to me, but if you point this out, you're accused of trying to marginalize female gamers, making them feel unwelcome etc...

First everyone needs to settle on a definition of "serious" and "casual" gamers.  So far, only opinions abound as to what constitutes which.  Then, once you have those terms definitively defined, you need a large, reliable sample size to poll.  And all of this would only be useful and reliable for the time at which the survey was taken.

Well this is how I would define it..  Casual gamers play games that have very little learning curve, and require no previous experience or skill to play.  These kind of games also don't focus much on competition or defeating an opponent(s).

Serious gamers are the exact opposite, in that the games they typically play have anywhere from a small to a very steep learning curve, and require some degree of familiarity or experience to play properly.  They also tend to have competitive gameplay which focuses on defeating or destroying opponents.

[Fishy]

naughty99 wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

It's not just a video game thing.Do you know many woman that want to become plumber?

I don't know any men that dream of becoming plumbers either

Yup and that sad.

[Silveryne]

[quote]Carfax wrote...

I never said it didn't.  I said it came from gay mens' influence over the fashion industry...  So unless gay men aren't men, then I wasn't wrong was I? [/quote]

 I am being specific. It is not "gay" men that enforce cultural norms in our society. Gay men are, believe it or not, a minority. What you think are attractive -- T&A, if your voluptuous women comment is any indicator -- is what the majority of men -- we'll call 'em "men" for short -- think is attractive. You like curvy women, which suggests you do not like morbidly obese women. I think morbidly obese women are fine to live how they want and are beautiful in ways that "voluptuous" women are not. Let's face it: men like you decide what is attractive in this culture and what isn't. To put it on gay men is laughably wrong. To claim the fashion industry is run by gay men is also probably laughably wrong.
 
[quote]Well I can't speak for every man, but if my wife told me she was getting any kind of plastic surgery done, I'd be horrified  [/quote]

One hopes you married your wife because you found her attractive in the first place. A lot of women do not feel attractive and try to change that. Through surgery, through makeup, through lots of things.


[quote]So basically it's skinny vs overweight or obese?  It's a bit more complicated than that..  Being overweight or obese is often viewed as unhealthy, and a sign of laziness for valid reasons..  So I can understand why men wouldn't want to date an overweight or obese woman.

The times have changed however.  Food can be had in abundance (at least in developed countries), and instead of people being underfed, we now have the exact opposite; and it's just as dangerous as the former.

And to me, skinny means you don't have much flesh on your bones (Callista Flockhart).  A woman thats 5'9" that weighs 120lbs is skinny in my opinion.  My wife is 5'11" and weighs over 160lbs, so she doesn't qualify as skinny...at least not to me.

http://webcenters.ne...omen/curvywomen[/quote]

Okay? Skinny just means not much fat mass. There can be muscle mass on a woman. Most men do not find fat mass beyond T&A to be attractive. How do we know? Because of countless boyfriends teasing about love handles, or double chins, or little annoying things like that that you see every day. Articles posted on websites: "How to encourage your girlfriend to go to the gym!" Which was an actual article one of my friends showed me once. Gotta love people.


[quote]
Well it depends highly on the physical feat wouldn't you say?  For example, lifting a heavy weight requires a lot of strength, and since muscle mass and physical strength have a direct (almost proportional) correlation, then it doesn't mean I was incorrect.[/quote]

It does, actually. Look at martial artists (I know a young woman, short, lean, who can flip two 280 lb guys over at the same time. Apparently she can't, though, because that requires a lot of strength Must be ancient sith magicks!). Look at gymnasts. Do they have a lot of physical muscle mass? Not really, they're what we'd consider "lean". Not "ripped".
 

[quote]I define athleticism as your overall physical capabilities, ie strength, endurance and speed.  For example, power lifters are extremely strong, but you probably won't be seeing one in a track meet, so their athletic ability is one dimensional only. [/quote]

And? You can run quickly, run or lift for a long time, and lift your body mass several times over and still not be "ripped". You can be athletic and not be "ripped". Lean works just fine.


[quoteI researched this myself once long ago..  It seems that although there are mythological references to matriarchical Societies, there aren't any historical ones.....or if there was, I couldn't find any such reference.[/quote]

I advise you to look again. I would also suggest that you examine wikipedia's list of historical women warriors; some of them were conquerers and leaders of people. But I'm sure that they're also the "exception".

[quote]
It could be construed that way I agree, but does that mean I was incorrect?  The fact remains, that the upper echelon of Mathematicians is comprised almost completely of men.  This doesn't necessarily mean that men in general have an advantage over women in Mathematics however. 

The upper echelon of Mathematicians is pretty exclusive, and only a very small percentage of people have that ability.  And I think this has more to do with male intelligence being so extreme at opposite ends, than simply men being better at math than women.[/quote]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel sorry for your daughters. If they enter a male dominated career path, I hope you will love them and support them and not think they are an "exception" or strange. I'm extremely lucky that my dad loves me even though I'm apparently strange and a video-game playing freak. I imagine that all the other women in this forum are just as lucky that they've got people in their lives who love and accept them for being so awkward and deviant as to play video games. 


[quote]Playing video games isn't unsual for women.  It's the TYPE of video games that raises eyebrows, and the only reason why it does, is because it's comparatively rare to see a woman playing FPS and other violent games..

I never said or claimed the women that do these things are breaking any rules or any such thing..  I've personally always tried very hard to get my wife to be interested in the kind of games that I play, but I've never been successful at it.[/quote]

So is a guy who plays Facebook games unusual because that is female dominated? That's a very strange standard you have there. I don't think I can fully wrap my head around it without my skull shattering.

We're individuals with our own preferences. Some of us like violent games some of us don't. Stop freaking out about it and just accept us as we are, okay? That's all we'd like here.

If you are saying it is strange, worthy of lifting eyebrows, and saying that we are an "exception", then I have to ask: Exception to what, exactly? If it's not a rule or a social norm that we're breaking, why have this argument in the first place?

[quote]I think you're making this out to be more than it really is.  I'm not on some Crusade to dissuade females from playing these kinds of games, or any other game.  I just wanted to know why some women play these kinds of games (and not others), and how they got started in it.....  Why?  Because it's unusual from what I've seen and read.[/quote]

A lot of us can enjoy "non-violent" games equally. We're individuals. I am sounding like a broken record here, which is the worst kind of record. Don't look at us as women, look at us as fellow human beings who happen to be female. Our femininity is not what defines us, but merely an aspect of our identity.

[quote]I understand that individualism is a strong component of human nature, but so is conformity as well.

And please, don't be so sensitive.  We are just having a debate, thats all.  You're going to have differing opinions in any debate aren't you? [/quote]

Conformity is important, which is why we all live in the same kinds of house, drive the same kind and color of car, and do the same kinds of stuff! Nobody every does anything different. Ever.
You do not conform completely to what other men do, don't expect us (or any other woman) to conform completely to what some other women do. I'm sure that I'm not the only woman who posts on this forum who thinks shoes are awesome and can talk all day long about her favorite kind of boots. I'm sure there's women here who follow other gender norms. We break some. You break some. Those gay men you are so fond of mentioning break some!

There is no standard of normal. Normality is a pleasant illusion that does not exist. It's an ideal. It's not reality.

And hey, that accusation of sensitivity is my favorite part, because it's a spring-loaded trap and character attack -- It's the "hey, I'm just playing! No need to take this so seriously!" kind of statement that I love in debates. I see what you did there. I'm not that blind yet.  Though sorry for hurting your feelings. I'll make it up to you by posting a box of spider-man bandaids to ya.

Here, let me put my hand in and get it wrenched off for you: I'm not sensitive. I do not take kindly to being told, in a very roundabout way, that there is something wrong or unusual with me and every other woman on this forum. None of us do. This is slowly devolving into you baiting us, though, instead of a debate filled with mutual respect.

I'm not the only person here who has said that we don't want to be thought of as strange, alien women, but human beings. This argument, believe it or not, gives the impression that it isn't looking at us as people, but at us as women who are not people capable of liking what we want to like or doing what we want to do, and that's where it starts to get offensive.

Baseline: All kinds of women game. All kinds of men game. There is no one specific type of female gamer because we're unique people just like you, snowflake. We like what we like. Get over it.

[Carfax]

[quote]DominusVita wrote...

 The Average Forumgoer:




Carfax:




Ha!  Thats actually not that far from the truth..  Even on other forums I'm known as a trouble maker that likes to "ignite" controversial subjects..

[jellobell]

Carfax wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Only BW can truly answer that.  Anyone here can only speculate at best.  I side with those who state "cowardice."  Once companies reach a certain size, they seem to become less willing to take "risks," even if a "risk" is something as mundane as including a screenshot of a female Shepard.  Of course, they say it's to cut down on confusion.  Oh, noes, the chaos that would create! Men everywhere would explode from the confusion if marketing did that since obviously mens' brains are unable to handle this disparity! /sarcasm  (Seriously, that's downright insulting BW.)

But cowardice implies that the amount of female consumers is comparatively small to that of male consumers, otherwise they wouldn't act in that manner because female gamers would make up for the amount of male gamers that they would lose by marketing towards women.....assuming it's true.

It seems axiomatic to me, but if you point this out, you're accused of trying to marginalize female gamers, making them feel unwelcome etc....

No, actually, their marketing department could simply be operating under the assumption that this is the case. If they assume (like many other game companies do) that marketing to women is a lost cause, then nobody does it. If nobody does it, everybody assumes that there's a very good reason for this. This has been going on for a very long time, and things that were true years ago may no longer be the case, however they're still too scared to try it out because nobody else has tested the waters. It's a vicious cycle that feeds into false preconceptions of what women like and don't like.

[Eradyn]

Well that's your definition, Carfax, and that's all it is. Like I said: opinions abound.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I am a girl, and I like video games because they're fun

I'm not blind to the fact that gaming in general (tabletop, video games, CCG, etc.) is heavily male-dominated. I am aware that this difference exists. But honestly, I don't care. We can dance all day around marketing and gender paradigms and whatever else, but at the end of the day, games are for fun. And that's why I play them.

[Fishy]

Click me darling  .You want it .. You need it .. Oh yes.

Modifié par Suprez30, 13 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[DA_GamerGal]

Carfax wrote...

So with that said, just what kind of women play games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age?    The women on these forums obviously aren't your everyday garden variety female.

*is curious*

I've always considered myself a pretty average run-of the-mill female... and I love playing ME2, DA:O and DA2. I also play love playing Assasin's Creed... Uncharted 1 & 2... Red Dead Redemption... Resident Evil... Darksiders... Viking... Bioshock2... Heavy Rain... Lord of the Rings... Fallout 2 &3... Diablo 1, 2 & 3.... Tomb Raider/Lara Croft games... WET...Oblivion...Quake... the list goes on.

Presently I play games on my PS3 mostly, but I do have games I play on my 10 year old PC. I also have a WII and in the past I have played on all the Nintendo game systems.. the Sega game systems... and the PS game systems. I am also planning on getting an Xbox 360 so I can play games that are not offered for PS3.

I do wish that more games offered the option for playing the main PC as a female, like BioWare games often do, but I have no problem buying and playing games were there is only a male PC.

[naughty99]

krissyjf wrote...

I do wish that more games offered the option for playing the main PC as a female, like BioWare games often do, but I have no problem buying and playing games were there is only a male PC.

Many male games including myself also enjoy the option of having a female PC.

In ME and DA2 IMO the performances by the actors playing FemHawke and FemShep are incredibly engaging and much more fun than the male voice actor performances.

Modifié par naughty99, 14 avril 2011 - 12:20 .