25 réponses à ce sujet

[Anuer]

A few thoughts I had after playing through DA2.

1) So, I got the Templar ending, and I was sort of surprised that Varric said that I had become a hero that "showed Thedas that we could stand up to the templars". Didn't I do exactly the opposite?

2) Was I the only person who actually liked the Meredith battle? Before I got the game I heard people blasting it on the forums, but I felt that it was pretty creative and visually a lot more interesting than the Archdemon.

3) My favorite usage of recycled assets was easily Charade in Gamlen's Greatest Treasure. Charade looks nearly exactly like one of the pre-made Hawkes--namely the one I piked. At first I thought it was a plot point that I had a pseudo-identical cousin, but when I checked the wiki I was surprised and had a good laugh.

4) I'm shocked that the Arishok can have such a rediculously commanding and powerful voice when nearly all of the other Quanri sound like they were voiced by people who didn't care a whole lot about their jobs.

5) The game would have made significantly more sense if there were one-year timeskips as opposed to three.

6) Finally, did anyone feel like they were playing an Obsidian game? It felt a lot more risky than Origins (which I appreciate in a very risk-adverse industry) and IMO had more subtly, but was patchy, incomplete, and had more than one moment I was angry I paid money for a game of its quality. All things considered, though, I felt like it was more memorable than Origins, which makes sense, for as much as I complain about Obsidian's absurdly low standards of QA, the experiences are something fresh and enjoyable. If there's a DA3 after EA decides on throwing this franchise to the wolves, I'll actually be really excited to see where it goes.

[Merced652]

DA2 uses a random ending generator.

[SexBomb]

Merced652 wrote...

DA2 uses a random ending generator.

That explains a lot.

[ColdEnd]

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

[Merced652]

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

[Foolsfolly]

Merced652 wrote...

DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Hilarious, sir.

To the OP:

1) So, I got the Templar ending, and I was sort of surprised that Varric said that I had become a hero that "showed Thedas that we could stand up to the templars". Didn't I do exactly the opposite?

Yeah, I don't understand that either.

2) Was I the only person who actually liked the Meredith battle? Before I got the game I heard people blasting it on the forums, but I felt that it was pretty creative and visually a lot more interesting than the Archdemon.

Oh, it's visually interesting. There's statues coming to life, large groups of NPCs fighting, and big effects on screen. But the actual fight is just a mess of characters many unkillable duking it out until you win. It's kinda boring gameplay wise but interesting to look at. There was room for refinement.

5) The game would have made significantly more sense if there were one-year timeskips as opposed to three.

Especially since the City's largely unchanged after all these events. Even big things like the Qunari attack left no scars on the city, despite there being large fires everywhere....

6) Finally, did anyone feel like they were playing an Obsidian game? It felt a lot more risky than Origins (which I appreciate in a very risk-adverse industry)

Was it risky? It was a hack-n-slash RPG that didn't really do anything new. I mean, it's even a sequel to a well reviewed and sold game. Except they did refine the Dialogue wheel in such a way that I hope ME3 picks up.

[MingWolf]

Anuer wrote...
2) Was I the only person who actually liked the Meredith battle? Before I got the game I heard people blasting it on the forums, but I felt that it was pretty creative and visually a lot more interesting than the Archdemon.

I liked the creativity aspect of the battle.  It was one of the better battles in the game (short of maybe the rock wraith).  Still, Meredith wasn't exactly the charismatic phychopath, so taking her out didn't feel that particularly satisfying.
.

5) The game would have made significantly more sense if there were one-year timeskips as opposed to three.

Agreed.

6) Finally, did anyone feel like they were playing an Obsidian game? It felt a lot more risky than Origins (which I appreciate in a very risk-adverse industry) and IMO had more subtly, but was patchy, incomplete, and had more than one moment I was angry I paid money for a game of its quality. All things considered, though, I felt like it was more memorable than Origins, which makes sense, for as much as I complain about Obsidian's absurdly low standards of QA, the experiences are something fresh and enjoyable. If there's a DA3 after EA decides on throwing this franchise to the wolves, I'll actually be really excited to see where it goes.

This game reminded me of Neverwinter Nights 2, which was pretty awful, particularly when it first released.  Its funny, because while I was waiting for DAII to come out, I reinstalled NWN2 both to benchmark my videocard and to give it another try.  I actually liked it more now after repeatedly shelving it for months at a time. 

[Merced652]

MingWolf wrote...

Anuer wrote...
2) Was I the only person who actually liked the Meredith battle? Before I got the game I heard people blasting it on the forums, but I felt that it was pretty creative and visually a lot more interesting than the Archdemon.

I liked the creativity aspect of the battle.  It was one of the better battles in the game (short of maybe the rock wraith).  Still, Meredith wasn't exactly the charismatic phychopath, so taking her out didn't feel that particularly satisfying.
.

5) The game would have made significantly more sense if there were one-year timeskips as opposed to three.

Agreed.

6) Finally, did anyone feel like they were playing an Obsidian game? It felt a lot more risky than Origins (which I appreciate in a very risk-adverse industry) and IMO had more subtly, but was patchy, incomplete, and had more than one moment I was angry I paid money for a game of its quality. All things considered, though, I felt like it was more memorable than Origins, which makes sense, for as much as I complain about Obsidian's absurdly low standards of QA, the experiences are something fresh and enjoyable. If there's a DA3 after EA decides on throwing this franchise to the wolves, I'll actually be really excited to see where it goes.

This game reminded me of Neverwinter Nights 2, which was pretty awful, particularly when it first released.  Its funny, because while I was waiting for DAII to come out, I reinstalled NWN2 both to benchmark my videocard and to give it another try.  I actually liked it more now after repeatedly shelving it for months at a time. 

I've probably beaten nwn2 more than any other rpg, even bg2. Thats mainly because i really like the 3.5 ruleset and was interested in making the most powerful build i could for campaigning. 

[txgoldrush]

This does feel like an Obsidian game....well written, but very unpolished.

I had to check to make sure that Gaider wrote the game and not Avellone. I have bnever seen a writing team improve as much as the DA team did.

[txgoldrush]

Merced652 wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

 A hero to the mages, and Cassandra is no Templar. What would her boss feel about atrocities committed by templars?

[TheBlackBaron]

MingWolf wrote...

This game reminded me of Neverwinter Nights 2, which was pretty awful, particularly when it first released.  Its funny, because while I was waiting for DAII to come out, I reinstalled NWN2 both to benchmark my videocard and to give it another try.  I actually liked it more now after repeatedly shelving it for months at a time. 

Yeah, I wasn't particularly enamored with NWN2's OC either. But Mask of the Betrayer was its redemption - that game had some truly excellent writing. 

That's my big hope, at this point, that DA2 can finally make use of its potential in an expansion pack that's got a proper amount of development time and resources allocated to it. 

As for whether it feels like an Obsidian game...apologies to David Gaider, Mary Kirby, Sheryl Chee, and the rest of the writing team, but I felt like the writing of the game was very lacking in some areas, Act III most notably (Act II was phenomenal, I will say that). I've never felt that with an Obsidian (or Black Isle, for that matter) game, again with the exception of vanilla NWN2. 

[Merced652]

txgoldrush wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

 A hero to the mages, and Cassandra is no Templar. What would her boss feel about atrocities committed by templars?

She doesn't say 'of mages' cutey. Also, her organization has put in, and enforced, a system where mages are confied and controlled. Pretty sure that gives her a reason to dislike me, especially given the prevelance of radicals in the chantry. 

[txgoldrush]

Merced652 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

 A hero to the mages, and Cassandra is no Templar. What would her boss feel about atrocities committed by templars?

She doesn't say 'of mages' cutey. Also, her organization has put in, and enforced, a system where mages are confied and controlled. Pretty sure that gives her a reason to dislike me, especially given the prevelance of radicals in the chantry. 

Hawke also saved the city from the Qunari, don't forget that.

Cassandra seems like a moderate who is trying to stop the war...of course Leliana is a relgious moderate as well. They are not the same as Meredith and Petrice.

[AlexXIV]

Merced652 wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

I think it is called the game having bugs, and they are hopefully going to be fixed (sometime soon).

[ForeignPatriot]

Anuer wrote...

A few thoughts I had after playing through DA2.

1) So, I got the Templar ending, and I was sort of surprised that Varric said that I had become a hero that "showed Thedas that we could stand up to the templars". Didn't I do exactly the opposite?

I just re-beat it with the templar ending. I'm pretty sure she says your name becomes a rallying cry because you symbolize the oppression of the templars and that they can be defied.

Kind of like Santa Anna became a symbol of Texas independence because he was the enemy and what he did to the Alamo 

[TheBlackBaron]

ForeignPatriot wrote...
I just re-beat it with the templar ending. I'm pretty sure she says your name becomes a rallying cry because you symbolize the oppression of the templars and that they can be defied.

Kind of like Santa Anna became a symbol of Texas independence because he was the enemy and what he did to the Alamo 

I'm...not sure I buy that reasoning. Not the least of which because how on earth does Hawke wiping the floor with the mages show that "the Templars can be defied"? ****, all it does is show that resistance is futile. 

Also, don't know about you, but as a native Texan, the #1 symbol of Texas independence is the Alamo itself, followed by Sam Houston. Santa Anna doesn't really factor into it. 

[ForeignPatriot]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

ForeignPatriot wrote...
I just re-beat it with the templar ending. I'm pretty sure she says your name becomes a rallying cry because you symbolize the oppression of the templars and that they can be defied.

Kind of like Santa Anna became a symbol of Texas independence because he was the enemy and what he did to the Alamo 

I'm...not sure I buy that reasoning. Not the least of which because how on earth does Hawke wiping the floor with the mages show that "the Templars can be defied"? ****, all it does is show that resistance is futile. 

Also, don't know about you, but as a native Texan, the #1 symbol of Texas independence is the Alamo itself, followed by Sam Houston. Santa Anna doesn't really factor into it. 

Hey I am Texan too,  

Let me elaborate, I think you become a rallying cry because the Templar order needed the help of the "Great Champion of Kirkwall" in order to defeat the mages. (wether this is true or not is up for debate). 

Therefore, Hawke becomes the main antagonist. And, I would agree that NOW the main symbols of the Texas Revolution would be the Alamo and Houston but, it was well recorded that Texans and Tejano soldiers saw Santa Anna as a symbol of Mexican oppression for what his men did at the Alamo and during the Goliad campaign. 

[Foolsfolly]

You know, BlackBaron....I kinda thought you'd be Texan.

Do not even ask how I assumed that. I don't even know.

[TheBlackBaron]

ForeignPatriot wrote...
Hey I am Texan too, [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] 

Let me elaborate, I think you become a rallying cry because the Templar order needed the help of the "Great Champion of Kirkwall" in order to defeat the mages. (wether this is true or not is up for debate). 

Therefore, Hawke becomes the main antagonist. And, I would agree that NOW the main symbols of the Texas Revolution would be the Alamo and Houston but, it was well recorded that Texans and Tejano soldiers saw Santa Anna as a symbol of Mexican oppression for what his men did at the Alamo and during the Goliad campaign. 

That makes sense, I suppose, I hadn't considered it from the angle of Hawke being an antagonist. That still makes Varric's ending narration weird to me, however, at least in how it's phrased. Hawke doesn't really show that the Templars can be defied; rather, Varric could say that it shows that the mages can't expect help from the "outside". If they want change, they'll have to fight for it themselves. 

Foolsfolly wrote...

You know, BlackBaron....I kinda thought you'd be Texan.

Do not even ask how I assumed that. I don't even know.

Heh. I get that from time to time. 

 Sometimes I'll milk the stereotype to mess with out-of-state folks. 

EDIT: Ah, yes, that smilie is much more appropriate. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 13 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[Whailor]

This game was hyped up based on BW's previous titles and also by previous game. Some things were good but plenty of bad, unfinished, buggy or things that made no sense. It definitely felt like a rushed product, from every angle. Main thing which annoyed me was how the slogans for the game kept saying "Rise to the power.. by any means necessary!". So where the heck was this "power"? The only tangible "power" would have been to become a viscount and Hawke only "becomes" one in Varric's talk. Not siding with templars didn't give anything which would have even hinted at power, instead Hawke just left the Kirkwall and no-one has seen or heard of him after that! At least in DA:O there was the ceremony at the end, final words with people around, epilogue shots and so on. DA2 just.. ended. Followed by an hour of credits. Sheesh. Lazy and unfinished work.

Also the known laziness with locations. It always bugged me how BW simply left some area as it was. Take the tower of the Circle in DA: O, after you cleared it and traveled around Fereldan and occasionally perhaps popped back into the tower, throughout a year so to say, and noticed that it NEVER got cleared up? Corpses still lying everywhere, children happily padding through blood pools and over the corpses of their teachers and friends and what not... You don't just leave the areas like this if they are to be visited or can be visited at a later point, if you make a quality stuff. Same with DA2 - Fenris living among corpses in his mansion for many years in a row? I am even amazed that they actually did clear up Bartrand's mansion lateron, for that haunting quest. Such half-finished areas only show bad quality to me, or lack of care.

And these save import bugs? Didn't we already face them, several times, back in DA: O days with the DLC's and all, one would think that the experience from that time would allow now to avoid stepping on the same rake but no. Still the same mistakes, same rake, same smack between the eyes from it. BW even has a script, made by them, which tells the "state of the world" (called "zz_vault_debug") which can be used to see if there are any issues, how come no-one ever actually used it? Or was it used and not determined to be important, and that in a situation where the data from the DA: O saves determines several lore details, encounters and even the availability of some quests throughout the game? I used that script to check the values as soon as I got and started DA2 and found out that it was choke full of bugs (the save I imported was from The Witch Hunt, that is it went through all of the DLC's in DA: O). I specifically created a new char in DA: O and played through it and through Awakening (and nothing else) and imported that save. Result? Still 3 sort of major bugs:

1) Player became a Chancellor in DA: O but DA2 said that he did not
2) Only Kristoff/Justice died at Vigil's Keep (Velanna slipped away as usual), everyone else was alive and remained with Wardens - after import though the DA2 tells that Anders died;
3) Killed The Architect, like I always do - but in DA2 Nathaniel tells that the Warden spared him;

Import the save which has gone through other DLC's and the amount of bugs goes sky-high.


As for the DA2 story...


It had good moments too, but in general I do not like scripted situations, where the result of something is set by some script while at the same time leading the player on and sort of letting him believe as if he has some effect on outcome. Like the quest with Quentin and Hawke's mother - no matter what you do or how fast you do, the outcome is already pre-determined. May as well get the quest and then leave Kirkwall for few weeks, won't make any difference. Several such situations are in the game and I won't list them all right now.

Some fun stuff was too, for example the option to "determine" whether your Hawke will be sarcastic or diplomatic or as "subtle as a sledgehammer". Party banter between members was also fun. Sometimes though it seemed like the actions done by the char and the dialogue options with someone later (or their acknowledgment) were somehow too controversial. And frankly I missed the true neutral option - like "shove the mages and the templars, I have my own things to take care of". Some character changes were either pleasant or annoying. Like Anders, who was a "fun fella to hang with" becoming some maniac and a lunatic. Or Cullen, who was "kill all mages" in DA: O but in DA2 became somewhat more reasonable (guess he matured a lot in a short time). I didn't like much the fact that the homosexuality was pushed almost to every char you met in the game (it's called a "minority" in real life for a reason, because most are not into it, so why push it now almost onto everyone is beyond me). I don't have too much gripe with the story, at least not as much as I have with the bugs, mostly the story was OK, just some choices were annoying or lacking.

[Fast Jimmy]

Dragon Age 2 needed six months to a year more in development, writing and QA. Bioware could not afford to do so, with all the time, money and resources being poured into the project to redesign the battle system and art development and get it out in time to not hurt Mass Effect 3 sales.

It is now a month and a half since release. Bioware will only continue pouring money and resources into updates and a lot of DLC if it appears many people will buy an updated copy of the game or liked DA2 enough to warrant a DLC purchase, which many people have said they will not buy, due to bad experiences like the OP has had, unless it receives rave reviews.

I predict two, maybe three, DLCs be released, which will meet with little to moderate success. And then Bioware will shelf the series for roughly 3 years and release a truly quality product in 2014 with DA3.

[Foolsfolly]

Wow, Whailor. What a laundry list.

You're not wrong, but many of us would just say "Game was rushed." I like how much detail you went into on import bugs alone.

[sheppard7]

Whailor, wow.

The quest about Quentin bothers me to no end. Reason is that I played Mass Effect 2 a few times before DA2's release. Can we say Suicide Mission, Bioware? We know you can do it where the amount of time you take to run the mission on pickup affects the outcome because you did it already in ME2. Or does the DA2 crew need to go to class with the ME2 crew as the teachers?

(And anyone who just got ME2 through the free offer but never played it before, you will see what I mean later)

After I did that mission immediately in DA2 and saw the outcome, next playthrough I felt ZERO urgency to go rescue my mom. How sad is that? Your mom is rescued and doesn't matter what you do she dies so may as well clean up some other missions first.

Modifié par sheppard7, 13 avril 2011 - 01:19 .

[Bmeszaros]

Merced652 wrote...

ColdEnd wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
DA2 uses a random ending generator.

Almost as random as this comment. Seriously, there's enough real flaws in the game without making up fake ones.

I'm sorry cassandra called me a hero when i sided with the mages and his example was equally perplexing. The only possible solution other than "bad game is bad" is random ending generator. 

remember, the Seekers watch the Templars, like the Templars watch the Mages. Meredith was out of control, probably even before the idol, it wasn't normal Templar behavior. I feel pretty confident saying that had Cassandra been in Kirkwall during Act3, Meredith would've had some explaining to do before it hit the fan.

Seems pretty obvious that any way you slice it, Cassandra would view Hawke as a hero. He/she either defeated a group of corrupt templars and their clearly insane, off the map leader or he defended the overly oppressed mages and restored some faith in the templars of kirkwall.

Modifié par Bmeszaros, 13 avril 2011 - 05:03 .